[QUOTE=Shine;7180147]
Here you go being all sensible and stuff.:yes: It just confuses people.[/QUOTE]
Yes! Stop with all the logic MB. There is no place in an emotion filled drama assault of an ARA for logic.
[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7180145]
Now, c&p a snippet of this post and give me a snarky answer, have at it. Or don’t.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for finally addressing my question about Juliet, even if you were unable to give a simple yes or no answer.
I think that certain people here are trying really, really hard to bring this thread off-topic by trying to turn it around and making it about themselves and their “hurt feelings” and we need to keep this on topic. this is about the carriage horses, not “M Flynn hurt my feelings”
I think that the brochures on carriages is a great idea, I know it has been suggested before but I think it may be an issue of funds to have a nice professional brochure designed and then the cost that would be needed to print a few thousand of them on quality paper.
Anyone want to donate their professional services towards this? Any graphic designers willing out there on COTH willing do do this pro-bono? Any printers that would do this or would COTHers and others chip-in to offset the cost?
I also think that the petitions on the carriages is also a great idea. My worry with this is that the RARAs would not be beyond swiping them out of a carriage if the driver has his back turned talking to a customer. Then the RARAs would have a list of names of supporters that they would campaign against…don’t believe me? They take photos of customers and put them on a “wall of shame” and are trying to get the carriage customers identified so they can put them through public shaming.
i’ll donate to the brochure effort absolutely. nice ones which can be in the carriages for people to read and or take with them and ones which can be handed out to passersby who show even a flicker of interest.
the challenge is really in informing the average nyc resident about the issue.
otoh, can you just imagine the outcry if the extremists tried to pull horses off the streets in say, London?!
[QUOTE=suz;7180243]
otoh, can you just imagine the outcry if the extremists tried to pull horses off the streets in say, London?![/QUOTE]
I believe carriages for hire are banned in London with the exception of special events.
[QUOTE=Amwrider;7180226]
I think that certain people here are trying really, really hard to bring this thread off-topic by trying to turn it around and making it about themselves and their “hurt feelings” and we need to keep this on topic. this is about the carriage horses, not “M Flynn hurt my feelings”
I think that the brochures on carriages is a great idea, I know it has been suggested before but I think it may be an issue of funds to have a nice professional brochure designed and then the cost that would be needed to print a few thousand of them on quality paper.
Anyone want to donate their professional services towards this? Any graphic designers willing out there on COTH willing do do this pro-bono? Any printers that would do this or would COTHers and others chip-in to offset the cost?[/QUOTE]
No, some of the pro-carriage single topic posters are being called out for their hostile responses to other posters. They create the same hostile threads where everyone who does not post their complete support for their carriage horse industry are called radical animal rights activists.
But clearly posts should only be positive for the carriage horses by your opinion…
I cannot help it if that is they way you see it, but that is not how I see it. Thank you much, have a blessed day.
[QUOTE=stolen virtue;7180259]
No, some of the pro-carriage single topic posters are being called out for their hostile responses to other posters. They create the same hostile threads where everyone who does not post their complete support for their carriage horse industry are called animal rights activists.
But clearly posts should only be positive for the carriage horses by your opinion…[/QUOTE]
Well, if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck …
I hope you are not insisting it is not animal rights extremist groups who are after the NYC carriage horses being banned?
Ok, so when some come with those same animal rights extremist groups propaganda here, the myths and out of context stories and questions, why would you expect some won’t think they are part of those animal rights extremists also?
If it walks like a duck …
Here’s a really interesting article about the lack of a horse drawn carriage for the royal wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton. It goes on to explain the difference between animal rights activists and animal welfare activists. There is a difference.
Immediately before the royal wedding of Prince William to Kate Middleton , the usual horse-drawn Glass Coach for the trip to Westminster Abbey by the bride and groom has been replaced by a car . Is this a security issue, or could sensitivities about animal welfare have played a part in the decision?
It’s an issue that has attracted attention elsewhere. Glee star Lea Michele has made a video with PETA , aiming to convince people to boycott horse-drawn carriages in New York City.
I’m sure that Lea Michele has a point. There are some aspects of the lives of the New York horses that are far from ideal . But if you scratch the surface, you’ll find that this is yet another example of two contrasting pro-animal stances being deliberately – and quite cynically – confused by PETA .
PETA supports the “animal rights” view , which is that humans should not be allowed to interfere at all with the free-living lives of animals. This is the real reason why PETA would like to ban the horse and carriage trade, but it’s a view that would only be supported by a tiny minority of the populace.
To draw more support for this campaign, as it does for its other campaigns, PETA appeals to “animal welfare” supporters . These represent the large majority of people who’d see themselves as animal lovers; they believe that it’s acceptable to use animals for human benefit, as long as due attention is paid to their quality of life.
“Animal rights” activists want a complete ban of all horse and carriage rides; in the long term, they’d also like to ban all farm animals and pets.
“Animal welfare” activists, on the other hand, argue that the human-animal relationship is a valuable part of our society, and that as long as regulations ensure that animals are given “lives worth living”, there’s nothing wrong with humans keeping working horses, farm animals or pets.
The New York City carriage horses are subject to strict licensing controls , under laws, updated as recently as 2010 , that are enforced by the ASPCA, New York City Police Department, the Health Department, the Consumer Affairs Department, and the Parks Department. If there are welfare problems, the way forward is for these bodies to address the issue by ensuring that the welfare regulations fulfil the task that they’ve been designed to do.
Banning the horses would simply raise the question: what to ban next? What about the horse-drawn carriages in the thousands of other cities around the world where they’re kept busy entertaining tourists?
Or to move out of our Western bubble for a moment, what about the 100 million working horses, mules and donkeys in the world that are integral to rural transport and food production, distribution and security in developing countries? Would PETA like to ban those too?
If you want to get involved with a worthwhile campaign, forget the celebrity-driven PETA animal rights extremist approach. Instead, give your support to the Brooke , which is the world’s biggest welfare charity for working equines. The Brooke reaches over 800,000 working horses, donkeys and mules a year, with mobile teams and clinics treating sick and injured animals as well as educating owners about aspects of animal welfare.
And if you’re a celebrity, I’m sure that the Brooke would be very happy to hear from you. Then again, the Brooke may not give you the air-brushed glossy image and international platform that PETA promises, so why would you bother?
Here you go…I knew I would find it, The Anti-Carriage Horse “Wall Of Shame” tactic…
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.610149982362908.1073741843.176907979020446&type=1
The comments are quite amusing (and scary). They hate overweight people and one person was banned because she made animals shaped cookies for eating.
I think the idea of a brochure is a good one. However, I think in cases like this, where funds are limited, the resources that are available would be better used on outreach and PR directed at the people who actually matter to the politicians: the people who vote them into (or out of) office.
Brochures are nice, but will the tourists who are most likely to take a carriage ride and walk away with a brochure really have any impact on the decisions being made? Even if they get fired up enough to call? My husband and son were in NYC last spring and they told me that most of the people actually taking carriage rides were tourists like them.
The vast majority of the voters in NYC probably don’t know enough about horses to see through the bullshit being spouted. Really? It is abuse to have a horse walk up a ramp? COTH knows enough to roll collective eyes, but maybe the average voter in NYC doesn’t. They have a very, very idealized version of horse keeping, informed by too many Disney movies and a vague memory of Black Beauty being better off once he got to live in a grassy pasture. The anti-carriage folks feed into that with their accusations of abuse, while the real estate people who are the ones who will ultimately benefit from the removal of the horses sit back and wait for the dust to settle.
It is that kind of uneducated voter that makes this type of effort successful. They don’t know what they don’t know. I think a good PR effort (led by a professional in PR and outreach) that targets the voters in NYC would be so much more successful than a somewhat hit and miss effort.
Donations could be raised (tourists could help there, that is for sure) and the money raised could be used to hire someone who is familiar with running a campaign like that. It really does seem as if the current effort to get the word out about the reality of the carriage trade isn’t working with the people who matter the most: those who vote in NYC.
Sheilah
Sheila, I knew there was a reason that the brochure idea was shot down before. I think M Flynn may have mentioned this a few years ago when I brought up the idea of brochures. The expense was not justifiable because of the reasons you just mentioned.
Laura Will and Kate DID leave the ceremony in a horse drawn carriage per tradition. What was changed was the procession to the Abby where she chose to arrive with her family by car. Also noting that Kate is extremely allergic to horses so perhaps that weighed in her decision to arrive by car rather then risk an allergic attack or symptoms prior to her wedding. Others suggest it was in an effort to pay homage to her arriving as a commoner and leaving as a royal.
I’m going to go out on a limb and risk that it had nothing to do with placating extremists.
The article did have some interesting talking points though thank you !
1000 postcards for $100.
You can have a pic on one side, and information incl website/facebook page, petition link and other info on the back.
$100 to get locals or tourists to sign a petition, or otherwise express support seems like a good investment to me. After all while it’s the locals who vote, it’s the tourists who spend the money that support much of what the city is and does.
Tourists are vital to both the city and the Carriage Horses.
I understand it is locals who vote and it’s the politicians they vote for who amend/create laws… but you have to bridge that gap between ‘we primarily deal with tourists’, and ‘yet our livelihood/existence is in the hands of the locals’.
And before someone slams the quality of Vistaprint… it’s better than what they are presently using, no?
Also why couldn’t you create a 501c3 [or whatever it would be] to preserve the Carriage Horses, the culture, something… thus donations for materials to educate would be tax deductible…
I suggested a bunch of promotions last year. Contests for a free carriage ride for a wedding, for a 50th anniversary (along with a dinner would be great), a sick child’s wish, an interesting reunion (long lost friends, lovers, families.) The local TV news stations love this kind of feel good story. You’re going to have to work around their filming schedule, but trust me, it’s worth it.
You can promote it mostly through the web, but you’ll need someone who is pretty good at navigating promotions in NY City to help.
ETA: Another good one is a contest for people who proposed on a carriage ride, give them a freebie for their anniversary and a nice dinner. Maybe champagne on the ride if your allowed (not sure about the alcohol rules in NYC).
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7180332]
Also why couldn’t you create a 501c3 [or whatever it would be] to preserve the Carriage Horses, the culture, something… thus donations for materials to educate would be tax deductible…[/QUOTE]
A ©(5) might work and be very effective.
I think many of the ideas presented as excellent. (getting media involved, creating brochures, etc). But I think people are overlooking the fact that the OP already told us why this event is not being held this year.
There are simply not enough people with the time, energy, and drive to make the event happen. While I agree that some of the OP’s posts do not elicit sympathy for her cause, I understand her frustration. I sense despair in her words.
They are, quite literally, a David against a Goliath. They are, literally, beset on all sides. They are, literally, such a small industry, and represent such a small part of the labor movement and the horse industry… they are simply not going to be able to rally legions of supporters. Telling these folks how they should be organizing and getting attention for their cause assumes they have the numbers to organize that type of huge response. They don’t. They just don’t.
These are not wealthy, influential people. They don’t rub shoulders with the movers and shakers in NYC. Their detractors do.
What they need is a patron. Someone of power and influence to take up their cause, and someone who can hire a PR firm to handle their dealings with the public. I don’t think they’ll find that person here.
I am surprised that their union has not aggressively defended them. Unions were formed, in part, for this very reason. This is clearly not an animal welfare issue. The industry is under intense scrutiny and inspection and nothing can be found. Nothing of substance, anyway. There’s plenty of evidence that the industry’s detractors (some of whom are on this BB) are a few beers short of a six pack.
This is more of a land speculation/land grab, and NYC politics. Since so few of us even live near that area, we can be of little actual help to the OP.
All I can observe is that this tiny little industry is in real need. A need that goes far beyond printing a brochure or paying for a radio or television ad. I think it’s a shame that the horse industry in that area is so unsupportive; some high profile people even participating in throwing this industry under the bus. But again, very few of us here on this BB can be of actual help.
I hope the OP does receive the help her industry so obviously needs. She has my sympathy. Even though I have mixed feelings about the use of horses in highly urbanized areas, I have to admit these folks are completely innocent of wrongdoing. I look at the photos, I see the videos, I read and hear the accusations. They are just baseless. The horses are in good condition and well cared for. I wish all horses were as well cared for as the NYC carriage horses.
If they were, there would be little to no need for equine rescues in the US.
You want feel good stuff…give people a reason to want to support you.
[QUOTE=MHM;7180212]
Thank you for finally addressing my question about Juliet, even if you were unable to give a simple yes or no answer.[/QUOTE]
Some questions don’t have a simple yes or no answer, or the person asked cannot provide it.
You’re welcome.
Vistaprint business cards might even work, they’re small… so they go in the person you hand them to’s pocket easily… and all you need is 3 or 4 lines of info on them and to say, as you hand the card to them ‘if you enjoyed the ride/seeing the horses in the city today, please help us fight to stay here’. Just that simple statement will get people interested to either ask what you mean, or look up the links on the card.
5000 for $60
http://www.vistaprint.com/category/business-cards.aspx?txi=15626&xnid=TopNav_Business+Cards&xnav=TopNav
I get offers of free cards from them all the time, and the business cards I have from them are nice enough.
Once you order they send you lots of offers for free stuff or reduced prices on items. When I ordered my business cards I got postcards and a free banner [I think it’s 4’ x 2’?] for free, and it’s way cute and durable and works for what I need it to do…
