ClipClopNYC '14 is officially on hold

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;7179521]
Tha, MHM, EVA, Laura you know what the most incredible aspect of this to long back and forth is ?

That it is allowed to happen and no matter your positions each are allowed to have a say to debate to engage each other.

You know where that is NOT allowed on the pages run by NoClass, Forel and WAR. .[/QUOTE]

This forum is not run by the carriage horse forum, so the comparison is weak, at best.

If the Carriage Horse page allows negative comments about their business, that would be the comparison.

Put a QR code on that card and they can scan it and link to your website (make it a pleasant site please) with their smart phone. The easier you make it the better.

[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7180298]
Brochures are nice, but will the tourists who are most likely to take a carriage ride and walk away with a brochure really have any impact on the decisions being made? Even if they get fired up enough to call?

The vast majority of the voters in NYC probably don’t know enough about horses to see through the bullshit being spouted. Really? It is abuse to have a horse walk up a ramp? COTH knows enough to roll collective eyes, but maybe the average voter in NYC doesn’t. They have a very, very idealized version of horse keeping, informed by too many Disney movies and a vague memory of Black Beauty being better off once he got to live in a grassy pasture. The anti-carriage folks feed into that with their accusations of abuse, while the real estate people who are the ones who will ultimately benefit from the removal of the horses sit back and wait for the dust to settle.

It is that kind of uneducated voter that makes this type of effort successful. They don’t know what they don’t know. I think a good PR effort (led by a professional in PR and outreach) that targets the voters in NYC would be so much more successful than a somewhat hit and miss effort.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]

Good points!

To everyone who is offering ideas - brochures, postcards, petitions, Make-A-Wish, other PR stuff, 501©3s etc etc…please know that we either do or have done ALL of these, some of them we do and/or have done for 25 years. We are constantly updating and tweaking our pro-active measures.

This thread was started to update the COTHers interested in ClipClop '14. We always appreciate when our supporters offer their ideas and input, but the actual brainstorming and announcement of plans for different things all take place on a private FB page, because Forel’s & Nislick’s people read COTH.

There is no need to re-invent the wheel, but of course we definitely want to hear if someone thinks they have a specific suggestion that could help, like BaldStockings did by suggesting that one of my posts here would make a good start on a press release.

If anyone wishes to join our private FB page so that you can participate and see the extent of what we have done/do, PM me and I will add you :slight_smile:

Thanx again.

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7180340]
I suggested a bunch of promotions last year. Contests for a free carriage ride for a wedding, for a 50th anniversary (along with a dinner would be great), a sick child’s wish, an interesting reunion (long lost friends, lovers, families.) The local TV news stations love this kind of feel good story. You’re going to have to work around their filming schedule, but trust me, it’s worth it.

You can promote it mostly through the web, but you’ll need someone who is pretty good at navigating promotions in NY City to help.

ETA: Another good one is a contest for people who proposed on a carriage ride, give them a freebie for their anniversary and a nice dinner. Maybe champagne on the ride if your allowed (not sure about the alcohol rules in NYC).[/QUOTE]

Great ideas!

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7180365]
Put a QR code on that card and they can scan it and link to your website (make it a pleasant site please) with their smart phone. The easier you make it the better.[/QUOTE]

I’ve been out of the Marketing biz long enough that I always forget that one!
Great suggestion!

[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7180298]
I think the idea of a brochure is a good one. However, I think in cases like this, where funds are limited, the resources that are available would be better used on outreach and PR directed at the people who actually matter to the politicians: the people who vote them into (or out of) office.

Brochures are nice, but will the tourists who are most likely to take a carriage ride and walk away with a brochure really have any impact on the decisions being made? Even if they get fired up enough to call? My husband and son were in NYC last spring and they told me that most of the people actually taking carriage rides were tourists like them.

The vast majority of the voters in NYC probably don’t know enough about horses to see through the bullshit being spouted. Really? It is abuse to have a horse walk up a ramp? COTH knows enough to roll collective eyes, but maybe the average voter in NYC doesn’t. They have a very, very idealized version of horse keeping, informed by too many Disney movies and a vague memory of Black Beauty being better off once he got to live in a grassy pasture. The anti-carriage folks feed into that with their accusations of abuse, while the real estate people who are the ones who will ultimately benefit from the removal of the horses sit back and wait for the dust to settle.

It is that kind of uneducated voter that makes this type of effort successful. They don’t know what they don’t know. I think a good PR effort (led by a professional in PR and outreach) that targets the voters in NYC would be so much more successful than a somewhat hit and miss effort.

Donations could be raised (tourists could help there, that is for sure) and the money raised could be used to hire someone who is familiar with running a campaign like that. It really does seem as if the current effort to get the word out about the reality of the carriage trade isn’t working with the people who matter the most: those who vote in NYC.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]

Thanx so much Sheilah for taking the time and making the effort to write this all out. The voters in NYC are not who we are concerned about right now; very few would change their vote for mayor based on the carriages, I would think, even if they were made to see the light and empathized. We actually have a lot of support here in NYC - we are fairly confident that if there were ever a referendum (not likely, since they cost millions of dollars to conduct), with a good campaign like you are outlining here we would win handily. But that is not the lay of the land right now.

We are doing tons of stuff right now to mitigate what we know are the coming circumstances under a DeBlasio mayoralty. See my previous post if you want to get in the discussion :slight_smile:

Lovely people…just lovely. I didn’t see a couple of my relatives who did go have a carriage ride - I could have proudly identified them. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Amwrider;7180287]
Here you go…I knew I would find it, The Anti-Carriage Horse “Wall Of Shame” tactic…

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.610149982362908.1073741843.176907979020446&type=1

The comments are quite amusing (and scary). They hate overweight people and one person was banned because she made animals shaped cookies for eating.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midge;7180354]

If the Carriage Horse page allows negative comments about their business, that would be the comparison.[/QUOTE]

Well, it just so happens that they do. Feel free: https://www.facebook.com/carriagehorsefacts

[QUOTE=Amwrider;7180309]
Sheila, I knew there was a reason that the brochure idea was shot down before. I think M Flynn may have mentioned this a few years ago when I brought up the idea of brochures. The expense was not justifiable because of the reasons you just mentioned.[/QUOTE]

We don’t do brochures as such, but we have black and white tri-folds and color postcards from Vistaprint with a FAQ on the back. I’ll see if I can post our most recent one.

[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7180384]
we are fairly confident that if there were ever a referendum (not likely, since they cost millions of dollars to conduct), with a good campaign like you are outlining here we would win handily. [/QUOTE]
Don’t be so quick to discount a referendum. Here in my state the Superintendent of Education gutted public education, after having a sudden epiphany ten days after being re-elected. He introduced a three pronged “reform” package to the state legislature, where it was approved despite massive push back from teachers, parents and other stakeholders.

A grass roots petition drive was started, to get the three individual bills on the November 2012 ballot as referendum measures. The political powers that be ignored it for the most part, since in the history of the state referendum has only succeeded twice. Besides, what can a bunch of teachers and parents do?

A whole heck of a lot, actually. Not only did we get enough signatures to put the three issues on the ballot, all three referendum were passed by overwhelming margins.

If you carriage people do nothing else, I hope you are able to get professional representation in the court of public opinion. You need help linking the carriage issue to other issues that will cause the voters to take up your cause (even if it is only because they are also taking up other causes at the same time). No shame in piggy backing.

Forget out of towners, or getting horse people up in arms at the injustice of it all. You need New Yorkers to vote in your favor. They can see the light and empathize until the cows come home, but without their votes you are still sunk.
Sheilah

[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7180416]
Don’t be so quick to discount a referendum. Here in my state the Superintendent of Education gutted public education, after having a sudden epiphany ten days after being re-elected. He introduced a three pronged “reform” package to the state legislature, where it was approved despite massive push back from teachers, parents and other stakeholders.

A grass roots petition drive was started, to get the three individual bills on the November 2012 ballot as referendum measures. The political powers that be ignored it for the most part, since in the history of the state referendum has only succeeded twice. Besides, what can a bunch of teachers and parents do?

A whole heck of a lot, actually. Not only did we get enough signatures to put the three issues on the ballot, all three referendum were passed by overwhelming margins.

If you carriage people do nothing else, I hope you are able to get professional representation in the court of public opinion. You need help linking the carriage issue to other issues that will cause the voters to take up your cause (even if it is only because they are also taking up other causes at the same time). No shame in piggy backing.

Forget out of towners, or getting horse people up in arms at the injustice of it all. You need New Yorkers to vote in your favor. They can see the light and empathize until the cows come home, but without their votes you are still sunk.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]

I didn’t discount a referendum, merely stated that for such a small industry there would not be the political will to spend millions of dollars to conduct one; carriage rides do not rise to the level of education and teachers. However, as I said, I would welcome one, on the level that I am confident we would win. On another level, I am personally opposed to referendums on topics that should be decided based on their Constitutional elements, which I believe ours is.

Right now, voters in this city have little to do with our up and coming situation.

Out-of-towners are our lifeblood and the city’s lifeblood, tourism is not taken lightly here. Horsepeople are crucially important, in ways that I cannot reveal on a public page.

[QUOTE=JSwan;7180341]
A ©(5) might work and be very effective.

I think many of the ideas presented as excellent. (getting media involved, creating brochures, etc). But I think people are overlooking the fact that the OP already told us why this event is not being held this year.

There are simply not enough people with the time, energy, and drive to make the event happen. While I agree that some of the OP’s posts do not elicit sympathy for her cause, I understand her frustration. I sense despair in her words.

They are, quite literally, a David against a Goliath. They are, literally, beset on all sides. They are, literally, such a small industry, and represent such a small part of the labor movement and the horse industry… they are simply not going to be able to rally legions of supporters. Telling these folks how they should be organizing and getting attention for their cause assumes they have the numbers to organize that type of huge response. They don’t. They just don’t.

These are not wealthy, influential people. They don’t rub shoulders with the movers and shakers in NYC. Their detractors do.

What they need is a patron. Someone of power and influence to take up their cause, and someone who can hire a PR firm to handle their dealings with the public. I don’t think they’ll find that person here.

I am surprised that their union has not aggressively defended them. Unions were formed, in part, for this very reason. This is clearly not an animal welfare issue. The industry is under intense scrutiny and inspection and nothing can be found. Nothing of substance, anyway. There’s plenty of evidence that the industry’s detractors (some of whom are on this BB) are a few beers short of a six pack.

This is more of a land speculation/land grab, and NYC politics. Since so few of us even live near that area, we can be of little actual help to the OP.

All I can observe is that this tiny little industry is in real need. A need that goes far beyond printing a brochure or paying for a radio or television ad. I think it’s a shame that the horse industry in that area is so unsupportive; some high profile people even participating in throwing this industry under the bus. But again, very few of us here on this BB can be of actual help.

I hope the OP does receive the help her industry so obviously needs. She has my sympathy. Even though I have mixed feelings about the use of horses in highly urbanized areas, I have to admit these folks are completely innocent of wrongdoing. I look at the photos, I see the videos, I read and hear the accusations. They are just baseless. The horses are in good condition and well cared for. I wish all horses were as well cared for as the NYC carriage horses.

If they were, there would be little to no need for equine rescues in the US.[/QUOTE]

Understood… but handing out brochures, and the other ideas offered might find you that person who knows that patron they so sorely need.
If you don’t know that ‘Patron’ person yourself, how does the guy on the street who does know him/her learn that you need that introduction?

Daily, hard, legwork … KISS,… do what you can where you are with what you have… often-times leads to that ‘break’… what you really needed, that next level that you could not get to yourself.

Tell EVERYONE and ANYONE your tale of woe be it in the grocery store line, the bank teller line, or waiting for the subway… you never know who you will tell the story to who will have an answer… I’ve had success this way in the past.

That’s why I said don’t put ClipClop on hold now, and in fact I think it’s foolish to do so… keep it on the calendar [while sure, in your head you can question whether it will happen] but go forward with that very worthy, very high profile, well attended event, and while promoting it, get your message out on the real issue that threatens it all.

Or don’t.

[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7180427]

Right now, voters in this city have little to do with our up and coming situation.

.[/QUOTE]
What she means by this is that the two nominations for Mayor…both democratic and republican, have both said they will ban the carriage horses. Voters are not going to matter at this point, they have already voted in the primaries and the next election it won’t matter which one get’s voted in as they both claim to want to take the industry away.

[QUOTE=Amwrider;7180438]
What she means by this is that the two nominations for Mayor…both democratic and republican, have both said they will ban the carriage horses. Voters are not going to matter at this point, they have already voted in the primaries and the next election it won’t matter which one get’s voted in as they both claim to want to take the industry away.[/QUOTE]

But they will when/if either candidate decides to act on those promises when anointed.
Since it is known what these candidates have said they will do, you know what the future may hold… so get the positive message out there so when the Mayor gets out there with their intention to take the industry away… they are met with people who have heard the Carriage drivers side. Clearly. Loudly. Often.

[QUOTE=Amwrider;7180438]
What she means by this is that the two nominations for Mayor…both democratic and republican, have both said they will ban the carriage horses. Voters are not going to matter at this point, they have already voted in the primaries and the next election it won’t matter which one get’s voted in as they both claim to want to take the industry away.[/QUOTE]

Phone calls, letters and emails most certainly do matter, even after the election. Politicians say lots of things, but if public opinion turns against them, they sometimes change their minds.

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7180446]
But they will when/if either candidate decides to act on those promises when anointed.
Since it is known what these candidates have said they will do, you know what the future may hold… so get the positive message out there so when the Mayor gets out there with their intention to take the industry away… they are met with people who have heard the Carriage drivers side. Clearly. Loudly. Often.[/QUOTE]

Yes. But Eva doesn’t see it like this. So I’m done and moving my support to other channels who have reached out to me via PM. Because apparently, as an NYC voter and tax-payer, I’m useless to the carriage industry.

[QUOTE=Tha Ridge;7180450]
Yes. But Eva doesn’t see it like this. So I’m done and moving my support to other channels who have reached out to me via PM. Because apparently, as an NYC voter and tax-payer, I’m useless to the carriage industry.[/QUOTE]
Ridge…why do you need anyone "reaching out to you? Why not just take the moral high ground, deploy the resources you have at your disposal and take actions in support of the NYC horses?

Spread good karma in the world and good karma will return to you.

[QUOTE=pluvinel;7180465]
Ridge…why do you need anyone "reaching out to you?[/QUOTE]

That is what I did not understand about that post too.

It sounds like Ridge wanted someone to beg and whomever begged the most got the attention.

I would think Ridge would have an opinion on the topic and their support would go in that direction, not to whomever begged the most.

[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7180391]
Well, it just so happens that they do. Feel free: https://www.facebook.com/carriagehorsefacts[/QUOTE]

You do know I wasn’t making an accusation, right?