It absolutely slays me that groups such as peta etc. harass working horses and the owners when these animals are obviously well cared for. With all the news on abused horses, they could find many, many other horses to save. But wait, that’s right, they don’t want to really save anything, they simply want to destroy. Butt heads. :mad:
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7176858]
I suppose they might get away with banning the carriages, but I don’t see how they can get away with confiscating horses. There’s your angle.[/QUOTE]
And they can take that out of the bill. As it is, that issue isn’t swaying anyone because the language is too ambiguous.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7176775]
Whatever their personal feelings (or political panderings!) may lead them to say, there still has to be a LAW on the books enabling them to shut you down–and the burden of proof of a problem normally has to be extremely high when you’re talking about denying people’s right to make a living running a legitimate business. In short, statutes cannot be generated specifically to rule on a case in progress.
Have your lawyer research on what basis, if any, they could shut you down. I’m betting they haven’t any except for B.S. and publicity . . .[/QUOTE]
Statutes can and do get made just to single out one case. The Walmart bill almost became law this week in DC, and was written so narrowly as to literally only apply to Walmart, forcing one company to pay higher wages.
The carriages operate under a statutorily created license. The city can decide it no longer wants to grant those licenses. There is no right to charge money for carriage rides that the city would be violating.
I do think that the issue lies not with the candidates (I don’t think any of them feel particularly strongly about carriage horses), but rather with their constituents. Many people here have never heard of NYCLASS, but if you ask them if they think the carriage horses should still be on the streets, they’ll pause and go, “Hm, yeah, isn’t that sort of cruel?”
It’s those lukewarm moderate folks who need to come take the stable tours and meet carriage operators. You all will NEVER change groups like NYCLASS or the hardcore activists and it’s a waste of time, energy, and money trying.
Having said that, I couldn’t stomach a vote for Christine Quinn. There are unfortunately more looming issues facing the city than the carriage industry, so with that in mind de Blasio won my vote.
The NYC carriage horses live their lives under a microscope, and with a spotlight shining on them. Now, unfortunately, both the Democrat and Republican mayoral candidates are anti-carriage. The Democrat, especially, has promised to ban the carriages pretty much as soon as he gets in office. The anti-carriage groups have assured the gullible non-horsey NYC residents that the horses will be comfortably retired to “sanctuaries” where they will be cared for the rest of their lives. Anyone got enough land for about 200 drafties? C’mon, now, speak up! This is a very unfortunate situation for the carriage owners and operators. People who are voting have very little knowledge of horses and horse care. They don’t realize that it’s almost impossible to find sanctuary care for all those horses. And for most voters, there are other reasons that they favor one candidate or the other. Overall, the carriage issue makes very little difference to a large number of voters, but it will destroy the lives of the people in the industry. It’s the perfect political storm for the carriage people and I’m very worried for them.
[QUOTE=Tha Ridge;7176952]
I do think that the issue lies not with the candidates (I don’t think any of them feel particularly strongly about carriage horses), but rather with their constituents. Many people here have never heard of NYCLASS, but if you ask them if they think the carriage horses should still be on the streets, they’ll pause and go, “Hm, yeah, isn’t that sort of cruel?”
It’s those lukewarm moderate folks who need to come take the stable tours and meet carriage operators. You all will NEVER change groups like NYCLASS or the hardcore activists and it’s a waste of time, energy, and money trying.
Having said that, I couldn’t stomach a vote for Christine Quinn. There are unfortunately more looming issues facing the city than the carriage industry, so with that in mind de Blasio won my vote.[/QUOTE]
Agree with the above, and to add candidates say alot of things and agree with alotta’ things that they have absolutely 0 investment in, and zero intention of ever acting on… it’s called campaigning… Seems to me the thing one should not do is in Sept. say because the Mayor who takes office in January MIGHT ban us, the event in March is on hold …
Seems to me the thing to do is have an event EVERY WEEKEND until January, with open doors and lots of media so that IF the Mayor does try to ban them, there are too many people who have been to the stables, and who’ve met the horses and drivers and seen with their own eyes and heard with their own ears the oversight that they are under… that when/if the mayor gets around to banning carriage horses after s/he’s dealt with all those other issues that are far more high profile and effect more people and are on everyone’s ‘what the mayor needs to do’ list… the uproar can be heard all the way up here in far, far upstate.
Putting the March event on hold in Sept. because of what might/might not happen in January [or after] seems a little like throwing in the towel way, way too early.
Why would you do that?
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7176960]
Agree with the above, and to add candidates say alot of things and agree with alotta’ things that they have absolutely 0 investment in, and zero intention of ever acting on… it’s called campaigning… Seems to me the thing one should not do is in Sept. say because the Mayor who takes office in January MIGHT ban us, the event in March is on hold …
Seems to me the thing to do is have an event EVERY WEEKEND until January, with open doors and lots of media so that IF the Mayor does try to ban them, there are too many people who have been to the stables, and who’ve met the horses and drivers and seen with their own eyes and heard with their own ears the oversight that they are under… that when/if the mayor gets around to banning carriage horses after s/he’s dealt with all those other issues that are far more high profile and effect more people and are on everyone’s ‘what the mayor needs to do’ list… the uproar can be heard all the way up here in far, far upstate.
Putting the March event on hold in Sept. because of what might/might not happen in January [or after] seems a little like throwing in the towel way, way too early.
Why would you do that?[/QUOTE]
You will not get the average New Yorker to care. It’s up to US. Horse owners know there is no abuse in this industry. But we all are looking the other way while one avenue of horse use gets maligned. Why aren’t horse owners coming out of the woodwork to say these antis are nuts? Why does NYCLASS’s Facebook page have 35,000 likes and Carriage Horse Facts has 2,000? What message does the lack of interest from the actual knowledge-holders say to our elected officials?
Sitting back and arm-chair quarterbacking how Eva should be running her advocacy effort isn’t going to shut up these rara’s.
When another celebrity signs on with PETA to appear on an anti carriage horse campaign, and doesn’t get her Facebook page crashed by irate horse lovers…WE have all failed Eva, the other families, and someday, probably ourselves.
[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7176764]
Yes - actually, they are hoof hot-brands, and the numbers must correspond with the numbers on a brass plate affixed to the halter (halters are worn 24/7)[/QUOTE]
I apologize for throwing ‘engraved’ out there. I knew better. :o
They don’t care about people from outside of New York. They care about their voters. It’s the same thing as the pony rides at the Staten Island Zoo. You need petitions from VOTERS.
Who cares what Laura in Kentucky wants in NY? I can’t vote for any of them. ***(I would have voted for DeBlasio too, it’s about time NY gets a progressive mayor.)
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7176960]
Agree with the above, and to add candidates say alot of things and agree with alotta’ things that they have absolutely 0 investment in, and zero intention of ever acting on… it’s called campaigning… Seems to me the thing one should not do is in Sept. say because the Mayor who takes office in January MIGHT ban us, the event in March is on hold …
Seems to me the thing to do is have an event EVERY WEEKEND until January, with open doors and lots of media so that IF the Mayor does try to ban them, there are too many people who have been to the stables, and who’ve met the horses and drivers and seen with their own eyes and heard with their own ears the oversight that they are under… that when/if the mayor gets around to banning carriage horses after s/he’s dealt with all those other issues that are far more high profile and effect more people and are on everyone’s ‘what the mayor needs to do’ list… the uproar can be heard all the way up here in far, far upstate.
Putting the March event on hold in Sept. because of what might/might not happen in January [or after] seems a little like throwing in the towel way, way too early.
Why would you do that?[/QUOTE]
I agree.
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7176960]
Agree with the above, and to add candidates say alot of things and agree with alotta’ things that they have absolutely 0 investment in, and zero intention of ever acting on… it’s called campaigning… Seems to me the thing one should not do is in Sept. say because the Mayor who takes office in January MIGHT ban us, the event in March is on hold …
Seems to me the thing to do is have an event EVERY WEEKEND until January, with open doors and lots of media so that IF the Mayor does try to ban them, there are too many people who have been to the stables, and who’ve met the horses and drivers and seen with their own eyes and heard with their own ears the oversight that they are under… that when/if the mayor gets around to banning carriage horses after s/he’s dealt with all those other issues that are far more high profile and effect more people and are on everyone’s ‘what the mayor needs to do’ list… the uproar can be heard all the way up here in far, far upstate.
Putting the March event on hold in Sept. because of what might/might not happen in January [or after] seems a little like throwing in the towel way, way too early.
Why would you do that?[/QUOTE]
I guess you can then go ahead and plan it for Clip Clop…Eva said she and the other two people are currently BUSY trying to save the industry without Clip Clop would be pointless.
It ain’t throwing the towel in, it’s doing he most with what you got, time in this case.
Come January, and the horses are still there, there is still time to plan the event.
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7176960]
Putting the March event on hold in Sept. because of what might/might not happen in January [or after] seems a little like throwing in the towel way, way too early.
Why would you do that?[/QUOTE]
“Throwing in the towel”?
Shirley, you jest.
May you live so long to find another warrior like me - I don’t, as they say, know the meaning of “throwing in the towel.”
I do appreciate your input though, thanx. Trust that there is a method to my madness.
The horses will still be there in January. And in March. And in May. And in August.
Anyone who thinks that ANYONE happens quickly in NYC is crazy and obviously hasn’t lived here. There is plenty of time to convince de Blasio that he has better things to spend his time on. He certainly knows it.
I 100 percent agree with Angela’s points.
where the hell are the people with money and horses?
the bloomberg girl? Christie Brinkley?
and all of the hamptons and dutchess county polo and show people who live and vote in the city.
we need to light a fire under THEIR asses! cuz it’s all about money as usual.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7177025]
They don’t care about people from outside of New York. They care about their voters. It’s the same thing as the pony rides at the Staten Island Zoo. You need petitions from VOTERS.
Who cares what Laura in Kentucky wants in NY? I can’t vote for any of them. ***(I would have voted for DeBlasio too, it’s about time NY gets a progressive mayor.)[/QUOTE]
I’m not saying we should all be making phone calls to city council. They do not care about anyone who isn’t their constituent.
But when the paid NYCLASS lobbyists talk to the media and legislators, they are saying nobody even tries to defend this industry except those actually profiting from it.
And they’re right.
Hence why it’s a no-brainer for any politician to support bills to ban this industry.
We do need an outcry from the collective horse world saying simply that these horses are not abused. Otherwise NYCLASS has made themselves the de facto experts on horse care as far as media and electeds are concerned.
[QUOTE=MandyVA;7177006]
Y.WE have all failed Eva, the other families, and someday, probably ourselves.[/QUOTE]
This in spades. I am shocked at the number of ostriches there are on a horse forum.
Thanx for the input, Ridge. Did you make it to either of the ClipClops? I know you were planning on the first one, but if you came, I missed meeting you.
As for NYers, not only do we get tons of them in the carriage, especially at Christmastime and other holidays, but most people I meet outside of Manhattan are very supportive; “Oh, you have a carriage! How fun!” or “Oh, we went when I was a little girl, I have to go again!”, or “Wow, how interesting!” etc etc. are the usual responses I get when pressed to answer what I “do.”
As for people outside NY - who are all those thousands of people who climb into our carriage day after day, year after year?
The constituents who you refer to, who do not support us, either have RARA leanings to begin with, are gullible and not research-prone, or are pet owners who think horses are like dogs and cats. All of these people have swallowed the propaganda that has been made available to them by the huge amount of money pumped into this campaign.
You are politically savvy - you really should see this video, where hired gun Scott Levenson of The Advance Group actually admits that they bought this outcome: http://vimeo.com/73913372#
…and really, of course, you are entitled to vote for anyone you please; but who you voted for not being germane to this thread, was it necessary to tell me that you voted for the person who is causing such upheaval in my life?
[QUOTE=MandyVA;7177062]
I’m not saying we should all be making phone calls to city council. They do not care about anyone who isn’t their constituent.
But when the paid NYCLASS lobbyists talk to the media and legislators, they are saying nobody even tries to defend this industry except those actually profiting from it.
And they’re right.
Hence why it’s a no-brainer for any politician to support bills to ban this industry.
We do need an outcry from the collective horse world saying simply that these horses are not abused. Otherwise NYCLASS has made themselves the de facto experts on horse care as far as media and electeds are concerned.[/QUOTE]
When Mane and Tale jumped the shark and supported NYCLASS under erroneous circumstances this board and others and the horse community in general made a tremendous effort and it resulted in an eye opening change of heart for them.
Where is that support now … :no:
Least you not forget that NYCLASS is partnered openly and actively with PETA. A win for them is an open door just as said above that they know what is best for horses more so then horse owners and professionals.
you guys need to get on the ellen show somehow.
maybe we can flood the ellen show with letters and she could do a holiday segment on carriage rides with Portia.
[QUOTE=MandyVA;7177062]
I’m not saying we should all be making phone calls to city council. They do not care about anyone who isn’t their constituent.
But when the paid NYCLASS lobbyists talk to the media and legislators, they are saying nobody even tries to defend this industry except those actually profiting from it.
And they’re right.
Hence why it’s a no-brainer for any politician to support bills to ban this industry.
We do need an outcry from the collective horse world saying simply that these horses are not abused. Otherwise NYCLASS has made themselves the de facto experts on horse care as far as media and electeds are concerned.[/QUOTE]
And based on the hostility expressed on this forum of anyone who would question the Carriage Horse Industry, that is one steep hill to climb. Sometimes I think some of the posters claiming to be pro-carriage, might be working for the other side based on the rudeness and hostility in their posts…
