ClipClopNYC '14 is officially on hold

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7177503]
That’s an excuse, not a reason. It’s only hurting them, not helping and I don’t know why they can’t see it.[/QUOTE]

I don’t see at all how it is not a reason. We make up disorders for people who have experienced traumatic circumstances everyday yet to you …its unimaginable that someone who lives their own version can’t be compromised by it.

Yes I do believe that being slandered and maligned on a personal level daily is a trauma that nobody should have to live. Did anyone call you a horse abuser or murder this am … Or perhaps suggest that your entire family to die a horrible painful death because of your profession?

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7177497]
Yes, Angela, they were “swapped out” - as a matter of fact, I’m swapping out one as we speak…hang on, gotta open this can of acrylic…oooh, easy there…

I was actually coming around to think that you were better than this sort of thing. Oh well.

No, Angela - it is a dirty, rotten, toxic, bullcrap LIE.

Is that plain enough for you?

BTW, did you demand to know if it was true from the person who asserted it to begin with? Of course you didn’t - you don’t even know how or where it started, unless Lizzie has contacted you as well.

Truly pathetic.[/QUOTE]

What MHM said

I’m sorry you’re in the boat you are in, and as a horse lover I would love to help you if I could. But before anyone can help you, you have to help yourself instead of shooting yourself in the foot.

[michaleenflynn]

[QUOTE=Paragon;7177501]
This absolutely breaks my heart. If there’s one thing to take away from this whole thread, I think this is it.

It reminds me of the so-called vet, Mary Xanthos, who raced to the scene of a horse who stumbled while pulling a carriage in NYC. She shoved aside bystanders not to help, but to shove her camera phone at the horse, screaming hysterically and flailing about, hindering the driver in their attempts to get the horse back to his feet.

Can you IMAGINE the outrage if this happened at a horse show? If the stands emptied when Hickstead dropped dead, people shoving one another aside to get a good shot of the dead horse? If they raced onto the field and began screaming in hysterics that Eric Lamaze was a murderer who killed his horse? That’s NYC.

Or if PETA had showed up to “hold vigil” at the scene of Teddy O’Connor’s tragic accident? Showing up at events and carrying pictures of his body, chanting about the killers who don’t care about horses, who earn money off their suffering and put them in the ground when they finally break down? That’s NYC.

You see, facts don’t matter to them. That these horses are LOVED by every person who works with them is immaterial. The horses I named meant something, not only to their owners and riders, but to all of us. The horses in NYC have stories, they have people who love them, but they don’t have stories to captivate listeners and inspire a following. They can’t be seen on television or read about in the Chronicle. To support them, for most of us, is just an intellectual exercise.

But I assure you, if you haven’t been there, you cannot understand. Don’t be fooled.[/QUOTE]

This post means a lot to me, Paragon, many thanx.

Everyday there is something I use to sustain me through this horror we are going through. Today that will be what you have said to me here.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7177516]
I’m not here to “make friends” and “influence people” - I’m here to tell the truth. I leave the pandering, schmoozing, faux diplomacy etc to the likes of Nislick and deBlasio et al.

If you don’t know the truth when you hear it, that’s your problem.

If you are “sympathetic to our plight”, then nothing I am or do or say would change that, if it were real.

I have been interacting with the general public since 1981, and I do just fine, thanx for your concern.

If you think you are the first person to give “you better be nice or we won’t like you speech”, you’re wrong.

…and you’re waiting for an answer I have already provided. Scroll.

And make sure you hold your sources for the lie to the same standard.[/QUOTE]

And that may be why, in the end, you will probably lose.

[JSwan]

Thank you for responding. Yes, I can imagine it is a huge project; and like most big projects it is completed by a handful of dedicated people.

I’m sorry the event will not be held, but I think you’re wise to redirect your efforts.

I’m ashamed to see that any horse owner in the US, particularly posters on this BB, support a ban on your industry.

If the entire horse owning population was subjected to similar intense, intrusive, and rigorous scrutiny, I bet most horse owners would fail. Including the precious snowflakes who post in opposition on this BB. I doubt I would pass and my barn is spotless and my horses in excellent condition.

I think the antis on COTH need to realize that when it comes to improving the welfare of animals - it’s a waste of resources and time to focus on your industry. Y’all are clean.

I know… let’s go into the medicine cabinet of the average H/J or dressage barn and start poking around. As far as dirty little secrets go… those disciplines could use a little expose. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Best of luck to you.

@michaleenflynn;7176786

ClipClop is an enormous undertaking - there are only 3 of us who make it happen here in the industry, none of us are professional event planners, we can’t afford a professional event planner, and 2 of us have day jobs.
So everything else has to stop, out of necessity.

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=MHM;7177499}]

I’m still waiting for the answer to the question I’ve asked three times. Is it true Juliet was wearing another horse’s identification tags when she died?[/QUOTE]

MHM would it matter what halter she was wearing ? EVERY NYC horse must by law have their own unique identification number seared into their hoof.

It wouldn’t matter if she showed up wearing Secretariats halter …her identification was on her foot.

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7177533]
And that may be why, in the end, you will probably lose.[/QUOTE]

So an industry should be banned on the basis of horse abuse because Eva isn’t nice enough for a few of you ?

Sound reasoning.

Remember the legislation isn’t going to say “banned for being curt”. The bill is based on guise of being inhumane.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;7177542]
So an industry should be banned on the basis of horse abuse because Eva isn’t nice enough for a few of you ?

Sound reasoning.

Remember the legislation isn’t going to say “banned for being curt”. The bill is based on guise of being inhumane.[/QUOTE]

Very unsound reasoning.
Then again, I do not think, not what was being suggested either.

[Equibrit]

Is there a Union for carriage drivers ?
Can you start one if not ? You would then have the whole labor movement to call on. All those members that work for all those fat cats taking the back handers.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;7177542]
So an industry should be banned on the basis of horse abuse because Eva isn’t nice enough for a few of you ?

Sound reasoning.

Remember the legislation isn’t going to say “banned for being curt”. The bill is based on guise of being inhumane.[/QUOTE]

You have to convince people of the ulterior motives. And to do that, first you have to get them to listen. You all are not doing a good job of encouraging people to listen, even though it’s not working for you.

As I said, I’m neither pro or anti, but if you want to encourage people to support you, you really do have to make nice. Now that might not be rational in your mind, you might have a whole lot of really good reasons for the public to support you, but if they’re just not “feeling” it, it’s not going to happen.

Look at politics, the more charismatic politicians win. That’s why the antis have gone to celebrities…to win over the hearts, not the minds. Where the heart goes, the mind will follow.

I know, I know, I’m just wasting my breath. You will just keep on keeping on.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;7177557]
Is there a Union for carriage drivers ?[/QUOTE]

I think they are covered by some sort of union.

[Paragon]

It’s really depressing that we’re nitpicking tone rather than discussing content. So I’ll try to bring up the issues again:

IF THIS BILL PASSES, an entire industry will be made illegal with absolutely no factual basis behind it.

IF THIS BILL PASSES, horses will be seized from their homes and put into unnamed “sanctuaries” - sanctuaries, it should be remembered, with such sterling ethics that they are apparently sitting on room for hundreds of horses while countless animals are starving, suffering, and dying every day in neglectful homes.

IF THIS BILL PASSES, horses who are accustomed to - and happy in - work will be put in places where it will be illegal for them to work again.

I don’t know about your horses, folks, but the jumpers I know would wear holes in the fence line if they were tossed out to live out their lives as pets. I can’t imagine these horses will fare much better.

[Paragon]

And these issues, I think, are why PETA and NYCLASS don’t discuss them. When the issues come up, they point at the posters of accidents from ten years ago and try to convince us all that horses are hit by cars all the time in NYC.

(Hint: I know of half a dozen horses just off the top of my head that have been killed on the roads here in my Midwestern state in the past year or two - and that’s without even looking it up. The horses in NYC are doing much better than the horses in their pastures around here.)

They don’t actually have a leg to stand on, and they know it.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Paragon;7177562]
It’s really depressing that we’re nitpicking tone rather than discussing content. So I’ll try to bring up the issues again:

IF THIS BILL PASSES, an entire industry will be made illegal with absolutely no factual basis behind it.

IF THIS BILL PASSES, horses will be seized from their homes and put into unnamed “sanctuaries” - sanctuaries, it should be remembered, with such sterling ethics that they are apparently sitting on room for hundreds of horses while countless animals are starving, suffering, and dying every day in neglectful homes.

IF THIS BILL PASSES, horses who are accustomed to - and happy in - work will be put in places where it will be illegal for them to work again.

I don’t know about your horses, folks, but the jumpers I know would wear holes in the fence line if they were tossed out to live out their lives as pets. I can’t imagine these horses will fare much better.[/QUOTE]

All very, very good reasons to address the issues, questions, and rumors honestly, openly, and as often as needed… with as much bon ami as one can muster, or at least fake.

COTH is the ideal place to discuss this topic and hone your message… amongst those who would hope that you succeed for all the reasons you illustrated above.
COTH should be the EASIEST place to gain support, amongst peers.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7177568]
All very, very good reasons to address the issues, questions, and rumors honestly, openly, and as often as needed… with as much bon ami as one can muster, or at least fake.

COTH is the ideal place to discuss this topic and hone your message… amongst those who would hope that you succeed for all the reasons you illustrated above.
COTH should be the EASIEST place to gain support, amongst peers.[/QUOTE]

Then, some times, to call a spade a spade is what you have to do, as forcefully as necessary to be understood, even if some may use that to pile it on even more.:rolleyes:

[MHM]

@michaleenflynn;7177516

I’m not here to “make friends” and “influence people”

If you’re not trying to influence people, why are you posting here??

…and you’re waiting for an answer I have already provided. Scroll.

I don’t see an answer to my question about Juliet. Perhaps you could specify or quote the post where you answered it? Or simply answer the question again?

Is it true Juliet was wearing another horse’s identification tags when she died?

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7177580]
Then, some times, to call a spade a spade is what you have to do.:yes:[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, but not unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, and everyone else does as well, that it is, in fact, a spade… otherwise you just look like you call people spades when you don’t like the question/answer/offer/advice/idea.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7177586]
Perhaps, but not unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, and everyone else does as well, that it is, in fact, a spade… otherwise you just look like you call people spades when you don’t like the question/answer/offer/advice/idea.[/QUOTE]

You are right, “you can’t fix stupid”, as they say.
If some can’t figure something as simple as this, if it has to keep being explained and they won’t accept any answers and keep coming on acting as they don’t understand just to keep piling it on, well, I also would tell them they are not worth continuing to give them my time.:no:

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7177589]
You are right, “you can’t fix stupid”, as they say.
If some can’t figure something as simple as this, if it has to keep being explained and they won’t accept any answers and keep coming on acting as they don’t understand just to keep piling it on, well …[/QUOTE]

You’re making assumptions about the people you are speaking of and forgetting that others who are not posting are reading and making their own minds up.

It’s just not smart, Bluey, when it’s something as important as this is to the people who are involved.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7177595]
You’re making assumptions about the people you are speaking of and forgetting that others who are not posting are reading and making their own minds up.

It’s just not smart, Bluey, when it’s something as important as this is to the people who are involved.[/QUOTE]

My opinion, this is indeed a serious situation, not just for the NYC carriage horses, but the whole horse industry.

This is maybe not the right time and place to play games: