[QUOTE=RugBug;8302082]
I didn’t find it to be that clear. There was mention of some sort of training technique that VC was not okay with but not what that training technique involved. I can pretty easily imagine training technique is non-speak for drugs.[/QUOTE]
If you read the transcript, at some point Brigid explicitly stated that the training technique that Ken suggested was not drugs. I don’t know about you, but that makes it clear to me that it was not drugs.
Just to add to the interest of this whole thing, Inclusive and Tori are on the list for the $500,000 Hunter Prix at Saugerties today.
I had heard through the grapevine that AFTER Tori competed at YR she was not happy about the result and blamed Ken that his schooling methods weren’t up to par and thats when he blew up and kicked them out.
On Saturday at Upperville 2015 in the Junior Hunter Ring the drug testers were there. Small Juniors went first. Way Cool did larges and mind you everyone knows drug testers are there at the Junior Hunter Ring. Day before he did two rounds in Eve and Paul Fout Handy Hunter scores in high and low 90’s. Rider is 1st and 2nd overall in the 10k class …no testers. Next day in larges Way Cool wild, bolts after last class takes off and still gets 74 . Sunday…no testers at Junior Ring…score Way Cool…100.
I hope all the people sponsoring, media and especially the judges will take a hard look at this. If it seems too good to be true it probably is. Yes, I feel bad for this girl. None of the people she has been subjected to have any moral character. They do whatever they have to do to win. In light of what the horse world and people know…none of these horses or these people should be inducted to Hall of Fame. This rider rides very well and will probably go on to great things but as long as she is around these people others in this industry will have a hard time believing its her talent and not chemicals creating her genius.
There are a lot of really good trainers and riders out there winning without cheating and drugging. The round that got a 100 at Upperville…not a 100. The judges on that day were determined to make history at Upperville in the Junior ring and give this rider her first 100. People heard the ingate girl tell the judges in the booth the rider had never gotten a 100 and then voila…there it was…and everyone made a huge deal. Guess what people…that horse was drugged. Can I prove it…no…but hey…it had at least 9 paste tubes of something something and went from bolting 74 on Sat with drug testers at ingate to 100 on Sunday…no testers in sight. I’m not stupid. Neither r u.
All the championships this kid has won in the last few years on these horses mean nothing in my book. It is a shame but it is what it is…
Suggesting that a junior rider, any junior rider, would automatically be appalled at the thought of riding a drugged horse over 3’6" fences is sweet, but, IMO, naive. Sure, some would. But an awful lot of them have come up the ranks in a system that says it’s just what is done.
I boarded at a barn with a lot of hunt riders, who routinely Aced their horses for the hunt. It was just what was done. Of course, for the hunt, you didn’t have to hide it.
I completely understand, and agree, that besides the moral issue, there is a significant safety issue. But then again, how many drugged horses make it around the course just fine? Not condoning, just saying.
[QUOTE=ynl063w;8302079]
It was clear from the transcript that whatever Ken wanted to do did not involve drugs. And I stand by my previous post: show me any teenager who has EVER stood up to ANY trainer and insisted she will not ride a horse that is drugged.
This isn’t anything new, and anyone who thinks it is has her head buried in the sand. The only difference between now and the “good old days” is that there are more drugs available today.
That there are people here who expect teenagers who have to spend time in school plus make the time necessary to ride at this level, and then on top of that be at the barn every second to monitor every second of the lives of every horse they ride in the show ring is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t saying that - someone had previously mentioned about how she was “do involved” with their programs, but maybe had no idea they were being drugged.
I agree too, that a kid isn’t going to stand up and say, “Hey guys, this is wrong.” But also at the same time, if Tori can stand up and say, “Hey Ken, I don’t agree with this training method.” Then that’s the difference? Sadly, quiet = winning. If Tori isn’t winning, then Betsee and others can go find someone else. So I’m sure Tori doesn’t want to mess up her “career” per se.
Also another thing, Brigid says in the transcript that she told someone that the horse looked “too fresh”. That’s like universal term for “Go back and either lunge more or medicate more”.
[QUOTE=dp1092;8302020]
After reading the transcript (which made me LOL quite a few times), Scott Stewart is looking like a genius for getting rid of Brigid and Tori when he did. I wonder what the Heritage crew is thinking about all of this…[/QUOTE]
Scott Stewart, who has been set down more than once for drugs is coming out of this looking like a champ. And Ken Berkely—let us not forget Ken. After all, he was the one schooling Tori in Europe when she objected to his schooling methods and called home about it. Evidently she was upset because his training method was causing her horse to jump too high and not get across the jumps. Who remembers the days when such schooling methods were used?
When she got home she and her mother were persona non grata at SS’s barn.
This is what happened when Tori tried to stand up for what she thought was best for the horse.
Follow the links, people.
Those 2 are laying low and watching the people who had been their bread and butter get excoriated on social media. But they are the ones who managed and trained these horses for years. Their programs were not changed when they left SS and KB’s care.
PS: If anyone can show me where I am wrong in what I have posted, please PM me and I will edit this post.
I guess what will be interesting to see, is if Tori (when she becomes a professional) will take to training and not the needle. And if she will leave behind those people and their programs, and start her own.
I know as a kid my horses were drugged, but now as an adult who has my own barn and a great Pre-Green horse (that I want to actually learn, and not give us winning rounds due to a cocktail in his system) that I want to do it fairly, not only to other riders; but to the horse too. Hopefully Tori will do the same, but judging from the fact that she’s still showing Inclusive after all of this. I doubt it.
I am confident that some intrepid reporter will contact Jeff Morgenstern of Perfect Products to get his reaction to the 9 Tubeapalooza. His formula for winning on their website gets nowhere near 9. More like 3 and a buttload of powders. Of which the USEF should be so proud.
http://perfectproductseq.com/your-solution-the-perfect-prep-horse-calming-system/
It will be interesting to see how Inclusive/ Colvin do at Saugerties. Makes you wish USEF had the latitude for non-random drug testing (and the appetite to apply that power to the big guns).
The spellings “gofor” “go-for” or “gopher” are all acceptable in common parlance…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gofer
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gopher
If OED accepts it as a variant spelling, that’s good enough for me
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/gopher
Though that seems like an awfully picayune point in the grand scheme of THIS discussion.
[QUOTE=m&m;8302197]
Suggesting that a junior rider, any junior rider, would automatically be appalled at the thought of riding a drugged horse over 3’6" fences is sweet, but, IMO, naive. Sure, some would. But an awful lot of them have come up the ranks in a system that says it’s just what is done.
I boarded at a barn with a lot of hunt riders, who routinely Aced their horses for the hunt. It was just what was done. Of course, for the hunt, you didn’t have to hide it.
I completely understand, and agree, that besides the moral issue, there is a significant safety issue. But then again, how many drugged horses make it around the course just fine? Not condoning, just saying.[/QUOTE]
Just want to point out that there is a huge difference between routinely giving acepromazine to horses before fox hunting and drugging for the hunter ring. There is nothing inhumane or unsafe about giving a horse an IM shot of ace (or some ace under the tongue) prior to hunting. Typically the ace is prescribed by a vet and is administered in a manner to where it has generally worn off by the time the hunt is underway. Acepromazine has a long history as a safe medication for horses. Fox hunting is not judged and there are no rules being broken and no competitive advantage gained. Using acepromazine to keep a horse from being fussy on the trailer on the way to the hunt or jigging as the hunt starts off is a safe, legal, and humane use of a medication.
Drugging show horses is unethical on many levels. First of all, it is against the rules. It is cheating! Secondly, in an attempt to avoid detection on drug testing, many weird and dangerous drugs are used, such as Carolina Gold, IV magnesium, etc. Some of these drugs are at best unproven in horses. Other drugs are known to be dangerous and can easily kill a horse (IV magnesium). Even dexamethasone, which is widely accepted by many as a “legal” way around the rules has negative side effects and can cause laminitis. That a healthy show horse should be getting so many IV injections that its jugular veins are compromised is very disturbing.
It’s disturbing, but sadly not surprising. I do agree that the junior riders are growing up in this system where medicating horses for the show ring is part of the deal. The kids are looking to their trainers to learn how things are done and seeing a box of medications, syringes and needles as part of the package.
[QUOTE=M. Owen;8302264]
It will be interesting to see how Inclusive/ Colvin do at Saugerties. Makes you wish USEF had the latitude for non-random drug testing (and the appetite to apply that power to the big guns).[/QUOTE]
Is Mama Colvin there in-disguise to watch her beloved Tori?
[QUOTE=dp1092;8302300]
Is Mama Colvin there in-disguise to watch her beloved Tori?[/QUOTE]
She doesn’t have to be in disguise, the court temporarily suspended her suspension 
Ok, so right now, Tori is riding the horse (Inclusive) and the mother/trainer Brigid is watching…Betsee Parker will pose for yet another beloved (to her) championship photo. Do I have the gist of it?
[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;8302335]
Ok, so right now, Tori is riding the horse (Inclusive) and the mother/trainer Brigid is watching…Betsee Parker will pose for yet another beloved (to her) championship photo. Do I have the gist of it?[/QUOTE]
Yep Carolinadreamin’ sounds like you sized that up right. I think that USEF’s punishments would have more teeth if the horse involved in a situation were suspended as well- and said suspension followed the horse to new owners if it is sold during that period of time. It didn’t occur to me until people started saying it on this thread, but maybe USEF should be considering a more FEI style approach (however unlikely I find that).
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8302281]
Other drugs are known to be dangerous and can easily kill a horse (IV magnesium).[/QUOTE]
Or a pony. :no:
[QUOTE=Single Oxer;8301697]
“Take the high road LLC” that owns Don Juan is no coincidence.I’d be willing to bet my house that KLD is funding this.[/QUOTE]
I was wondering if that was somehow related…
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8301490]
I was just going to post this question. I would guess that, considering the prep time for the documents filed, the case so far has taken Plaintiff’s lawyers at least 50 hours of billable time (on the conservative side). And these are NY attorneys. Minimum of $200/hour for assiciates’ time (again conservative) = $10,000 just for what we can see.
Add in another 20 hours of phone calls, Partners’ time ($500/hour) and the costs have to be well over $20,000 just to get this far.
Someone with megabucks is funding this appeal. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
My original comment was about the boarding, training, and showing costs that Betsee Parker supposed underwrites 100% (not sure if its all paid for or not).
If the Colvin’s were to sever ties with Betsee Parker and go to Heritage would she necessarily get all that free stuff with Andre?
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