Colvin Civil Suit

[chunky_munky]

[QUOTE=busylady;8302653]
This made me LOL. If you think every judge gives a score without a preconceived notion, well…

Remember, this is a subjective sport. If I were judging today, I wouldn’t give such a high score to the 9th horse in the order when I have reason to believe the horse has been medicated. Would I give it a score substantially below its actual performance? No. But maybe today I’d reward the horse with a little more expression and a little less heap on the landing side.[/QUOTE]

Glad you are not judging today An impartial judge would have no reason to believe that it had been drugged, other than if it gave a poor performance in the ring today. And yes I am new to this sport :lol:

[scrbear11]

[QUOTE=busylady;8302653]
This made me LOL. If you think every judge gives a score without a preconceived notion, well…

Remember, this is a subjective sport. If I were judging today, I wouldn’t give such a high score to the 9th horse in the order when I have reason to believe the horse has been medicated. Would I give it a score substantially below its actual performance? No. But maybe today I’d reward the horse with a little more expression and a little less heap on the landing side.[/QUOTE]

chunky munky is a USEF “R” judge… just a FYI.

[chunky_munky]

I think most people know that scrbear, if they have been on this board very long.

[busylady]

So is Steven Rivetts! No offense or comparison to you Chunky
I do want judges to be impartial, just not in this particular case.

[caballogurl]

Also, in the UK human doping regulations apply to riders at “affiliated” shows. Imagine if we started drug testing our riders :lol:.

“Affiliated” shows are the equivalent to our “rated” shows subject to USEF guidelines. “Unaffiliated” shows are subject to the show organizers rules and any local province governing bodies.

[ybiaw]

[QUOTE=caballogurl;8302786]
Also, in the UK human doping regulations apply to riders at “affiliated” shows. Imagine if we started drug testing our riders :lol:.

“Affiliated” shows are the equivalent to our “rated” shows subject to USEF guidelines. “Unaffiliated” shows are subject to the show organizers rules and any local province governing bodies.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely, 100% think we should drug test the human athletes at rated shows.

[chunky_munky]

Then that is not treating every individual fairly. I understand that many find the situation distasteful. But it is important in the interest of the sport that officials treat each eligible exhibitor equally. Until you are informed by a steward that an entry is ineligible to compete and to remove it from your placings everybody is on the same level playing field.

[MIKES_MCS]

The perception of this “sport” has sat in the toilet long enough , isn’t it time to flush it???

[supernatural]

500k

Well folks…FWIW…The FW part of that judging equation gave the 100 at Upperville. Sorry people…wonder if the other half of the 100 is judging tomorrow…???

[jmjhp]

So my question is, if BC was willing To tell the tester to put her down as trainer on the drug card, she must’ve not been the one to drug him, otherwise she wouldn’t of offered that up, I would think.

[Raymundo]

A couple of things I am pondering from many pages ago:

Not truly understanding the timeline, I thought perhaps the reason Rivetts couldn’t have his name removed as trainer for Inclusive is that maybe the horse had already shown? If you could retroactively change the trainer name after the horse had shown, it would let you off the hook if the horse tested positive. BUT I am not clear on the timeline of whether he requested this before the show started, etc.

When reference is made to an injection being given “as the horse was going in the ring” or just prior to going in, does this literally mean just minutes out? So is this happening surreptitiously in the in gate area, or in a corner of the warm up ring or something as opposed to back in the barn in the grooming stall before the horse heads to warm up like 20 minutes before? I’m not naive–promise!–it just seems so crazy blatant. Are people that good at sticking horses that they can make it look like they are adjusting a martingale or rubbing a neck when they are really injecting?

That being said, I did see an older lady pouring her liquor into a sports bottle yesterday in front of the grocery store and had to double take to make sure I saw what I saw!

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=RugBug;8302746]
Great post, dags!

FWIW, when I contacted the drugs and meds group about PP I was specifically told that if used to calm, as SR asserts, that it was illegal.

I’m just a little nobody who does nothing, but I sign my forms as trainer becuase I’m the one with care, custody and control. If I screw up, my trainer (who acts as both coach and trainer these days) should not be responsible.

I can’t remember who pointed out that most of today’s top juniors have grown up in barns where PP and other meds are so prevalent that they may not even question their use. It’s a sad state of affairs becuase they will be the pros of tomorrow.

When I am standing by a ring and a trainer is radioing back to the barn to give the PP becuase the horse is about an hour out from showing and doing so openly? The rules are jokes and those who follow them become the ones who are penalized. At least they will have their integrity to keep them warm at night.[/QUOTE]

to clarify what I meant by signing as trainer is that the people drugging (trainer or owner or whomever) can make some random groom, working student, etc. sign the form so the main folks won’t come under fire if the horse tests positive.

I always sign as trainer on all my forms because the horse is in my custody and control even if my coach shows up and helps me in the warm-up ring.

What you and I are doing make sense because we are the ones riding, but to have someone completely unconnected with the horse, well that is a joke.

[Soaponarope]

[QUOTE=kenyarider;8300241]
I feel for the teenager - what drama. As a lawyer I had to snicker at the fact that the board found Rivets not credible. That’s lawyer speak for “you are a dam liar, sir”.[/QUOTE]

Oh.come.on. Really?

[fourfillies]

I dunno what GABA is but I know that we are in trouble. Me, an “R” judge, gives a horse 9 tubes of performance altering substance and clearly understands its use is as a calming agent adding to that a stacked “muscle relaxer” because that’s what SS said to do. And BC stuck the horse on the way to the ring in front of the groom.

I’d say “not credible”. Care, custody and control. No one in this whole mess gives one thought to the “care” of those poor horses (or the kid that could well get hurt having some stoned zombie of the horse fall on her)

[equisusan]

[QUOTE=caballogurl;8302757]
I don’t see why hunters require Perfect Prep, bute, and banamine while Europe seems to function without them even at the lower levels. Granted their “lower levels” are 1.10m. And FYI according to USEF’s rulebook standards, Perfect Prep is illegal since it intends to alter the state of mind of the horse - it just doesn’t test.[/QUOTE]

Well I’m not sure hunters “require” these legal meds under USEF and whatever PP falls under. I’d be happy to show under FEI no meds rules but it’s not like Americans are the only people getting caught trying to cheat in sports. Do they drug test the riders in the UK to make sure they haven’t taken Advil? Since this is what I equate to Bute. To me one gram of Bute has always seemed like good horse management… not trying to alter the horse’s performance. Just make the horse comfortable if it’s worked especially hard that day. If it was a hacking day or a young horse or a day off or even ticketed warm up - no Bute. Really that’s bad? Do you seriously not take Advil sometimes???

Thank goodness I’m too old to even know what PP is and if GABA is anything like gabapentin that I’ve taken myself then I would certainly not ride a horse who has taken it. Yikes. I was a zombie on that crap.

[IPEsq]

I believe that there are human drug rules for FEI competitions. Also, riders are subject to WADA rules for Olympic sports. I don’t know much about other international competitions. I also don’t know if any rider has ever been tested or busted for anything. To note, under WADA rules, alcohol is not generally prohibited , except for certain sports. So, ammys, fear not.

[equisusan]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8302914]
I believe that there are human drug rules for FEI competitions. Also, riders are subject to WADA rules for Olympic sports. I don’t know much about other international competitions. I also don’t know if any rider has ever been tested or busted for anything. To note, under WADA rules, alcohol is not generally prohibited , except for certain sports. So, ammys, fear not. :D[/QUOTE]

LOL I’m pretty sure I couldn’t drink and find a distance to save my life. Ha!

I would be curious what drugs they prohibit for humans. Illegal drugs I can imagine… anabolic steroids if that would even be of help to a rider. But I’d just be shocked a rider couldn’t take an Advil. I’m too old for this. Ha ha.

[LowerSaxony_Jumper]

Well in germany wehave zero tolerance.
I have never had blood pulled but at the 1.40 level it happens.
there are alternative methods one can use.

If your horse needs drugs to show it maybe should not Show or you should spend some time on getting used to a show. Should not be that hard since you have week long shows.

[equisusan]

[QUOTE=LowerSaxony_Jumper;8302919]
Well in germany wehave zero tolerance.
I have never had blood pulled but at the 1.40 level it happens.
there are alternative methods one can use.

If your horse needs drugs to show it maybe should not Show or you should spend some time on getting used to a show. Should not be that hard since you have week long shows.[/QUOTE]

I’m not opposed to those rules for USEF. Do they have the same zero tolerance for the riders in Germany?

[IPEsq]

From USEF’s website:

“Please be reminded that when you are competing under FEI rules, you (the human athlete) are subject to in-competition drug testing at the event. It is your responsibility to know if you are taking any medications on the Prohibited Substance List.”

From FEI’s site:

"The concept of one detailed List mirrors the approach taken by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) with regard to human athletes. We recommend you review this section of the FEI website regularly for changes in the Prohibited Substances List. For your information, after any change, a notice period is given before it comes into effect. After this period, sanctions for positive detections will be applied. "

FEI’s site only has the “Equine” prohibited substances list.

WADA’s lists can be found here:
http://list.wada-ama.org/