Thank you for editing your post…
[QUOTE=inca;8310105]
m&m - Please edit your post to remove the unnecessary curse word. I curse myself but using that word in print on a public forum that kids read is a bit uncalled for.[/QUOTE]
You can also report the post.
The horse abuse and total disregard for these wonderful, beautiful animals are much more horrifying for the children to read about than an obscenity. Because the obscenity of the eff word is completely dwarfed here by the obscenity of the totally normal, totally acceptable, treatment of horses by those who win.
People do forget. People will forget. People want to forget. Most of the horse show crowd will continue to honor & support & envy all the trainers, owners, judges, and yes, the child riders who are in this abuse up to the eyes. There will be a kerfuffle on COH for awhile and very soon it will be business as usual with the “top” crowd and the gushing profiles in COH. I’m old. I’m sick of it. It NEVER changes. Perfect example: Dana Tripp. Doesn’t mean we stop trying, but unless and until the governing body and the equine press actually gives a damn about the actual animals, nothing will change.
Absolutely agree that Victoria Colvin has to have an asterisk next to every single win and placement. Every one. They should be stripped, every one, but that will never happen.
[QUOTE=jr;8309785]
I never said eq horses weren’t prepped. Equitation is supposed to be judged on the rider. while a drugged horse might or might not help, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt since they should be judging HER riding and I’ve seen nice eq riders place with rails, a spook and a shy.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but this is cheating EQ, Jumpers, Hunters - whatever!!! If you can’t train it, ride it or show it without all that junk then don’t!
It’s a “fast food” society and all it is about is short-cuts and blue ribbons!
What has horsemanship become - who can PREP the best???
Sickening!!!
I find it sad that I used to be able to say “my horse requires no prep” and people would know I meant he’ll step off the trailer to the ring with no schooling etc or “she needs a little prep” for one that needed to get in the ring or schooled over fences.
I now shy away from using the word “prep” because of the negative, drugging implications that are now associated with the term.
And no, you can’t strip someone of their awards if they were not tested and positive at that show. It can be surmised the horse received pharmaceuticals of some sort, but there is no way to “prove” it. It may not be palatable, but someone can’t be punished because we assume something. Even if we are 99% certain.
[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8310386]
And no, you can’t strip someone of their awards if they were not tested and positive at that show. It can be surmised the horse received pharmaceutical of some sort, but there is no way to “prove” it. It may not be palatable.[/QUOTE]
That is correct… but maybe reason for tougher drugging regulations and testing. Come on USEF!!!
[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8310386]
And no, you can’t strip someone of their awards if they were not tested and positive at that show. It can be surmised the horse received pharmaceuticals of some sort, but there is no way to “prove” it. It may not be palatable, but someone can’t be punished because we assume something. Even if we are 99% certain.[/QUOTE]
And even if the trainer on record swears under oath that they were drugged? Yeah, I get that. Because nobody at the top gives a g-d about the horse. Nobody. Or this would not be happening. It’s been going on as long as ever there was money in it and will go on forever.
No reason why an asterisk can’t be added to the record book, though.
[QUOTE=Anne FS;8310360]
The horse abuse and total disregard for these wonderful, beautiful animals are much more horrifying for the children to read about than an obscenity. Because the obscenity of the eff word is completely dwarfed here by the obscenity of the totally normal, totally acceptable, treatment of horses by those who win. [/QUOTE]
I edited my post, but this beautifully captured how I felt, that caused me to use the word in the first place.
[QUOTE=Anne FS;8310360]
The horse abuse and total disregard for these wonderful, beautiful animals are much more horrifying for the children to read about than an obscenity. Because the obscenity of the eff word is completely dwarfed here by the obscenity of the totally normal, totally acceptable, treatment of horses by those who win. [/QUOTE]
I edited my post, but this beautifully captured how I felt, that caused me to use the word in the first place.
[QUOTE=Anne FS;8310404]
And even if the trainer on record swears under oath that they were drugged? Yeah, I get that. Because nobody at the top gives a g-d about the horse. Nobody. Or this would not be happening. It’s been going on as long as ever there was money in it and will go on forever.
No reason why an asterisk can’t be added to the record book, though.[/QUOTE]
We are on the same side, I applaud your passion. What would the footnote for the * say? “We think the horse was drugged”. (not being snarky) or perhaps anyone who gets a suspension should be identified in all their past winnings for the year. It’s an interesting line of thought, though I don’t know how feasible it is in reality.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8309455]
Midge, Not to sidetrack this important thread, but which horse killers were reinstated? I believe that Paul Valiere, Barney Ward and George Lindeman were never reinstated.
How many other horse killers are out there that I have forgotten about? (What a pathetic question to have to even ask. 
)[/QUOTE].
http://articles.dailypress.com/1994-08-20/news/9408200114_1_helen-vorhees-brach-candy-heiress-horse
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-03-01/news/9603010051_1_horse-killings-tommy-burns-latest-charges
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-12-04/news/9712040269_1_vasquez-horse-s-death-sentenced
[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8310497]
What would the footnote for the * say? “We think the horse was drugged”. (not being snarky) or perhaps anyone who gets a suspension should be identified in all their past winnings for the year. It’s an interesting line of thought, though I don’t know how feasible it is in reality.[/QUOTE]
“Trainer on record [name] swears under oath that Inclusive [or Ovation, or etc. etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum] was drugged with [list] for this show.” For every one. Yeah, I know, it will never happen. But we have testimony under oath by these people. It needs to stay on record.
At the very least equestrian publications need to stop gushing over these incredible child riders and trainers and owners etc. etc. Really, how long until COH or Practical Horseman gushes over the next “wonderful” performance by one of these people, even knowing what they know now?
Exactly so, sadly enough. How many people still train with Paul Valliere and boast about it?
There seems to be two different things being talked about: violating the rules and violating the rules to the extent that it amounts to horse abuse. The former is not necessarily inclusive of the latter.
I started reading the transcript but couldn’t finish. I admit that it made me feel dirty.
Loved Molly Sarge’s article–keep it up, Molly.
Is a rider still a fabulously “talented” rider when the only horses they have ever ridden have been drugged to the hilt ??? Just a question , but seriously , in the last 15 years how many Fabulous pony riders have come up through the ranks on ponies who have never stepped foot in a show ring or schooling ring for that matter without being “prepped”? Is a TRAINER still the best BNT when not horse in the shedrow doesn’t have a list of prep meds long enough to fill a tack trunk… The only people who want change are the people that come to these types of chat forums to discuss whats wrong , ever see anyone who Counts ( to the USEF ) come to this board , including the USEF , no and you won’t , The last Open Forum the USEF had earlier this year was a joke designed to appease the lowly masses of the membership . The USEF itself is on fast track to bankrupt any and all Shows that dare to take entries from the bigger Walmart shows… You know who shows at those shows , the people that can’t afford a $100.00 a day in prep meds with a BNT at a BN Horse show series… We don’t produce the Best riders any longer because we don’t have to . money doesn’t buy talent, it buys a perfect prepped horse and that’s it …
I agree with you, Mikes MCS. After reading the transcripts I went back and looked up old articles on Tori Colvin. There was a Practical Horseman one that talked a lot about how she had no confidence, was very “fragile,” “she wasn’t the bravest,” etc. and so when she was small they made sure to put her on absolutely calm horses. In hindsight that simply translates to me now as this kid has been on drugged-to-the-gills horses ever since she was tiny. Only singling out this kid because it’s her specific horses that are the topic of this thread. Do I think it’s only these trainers and barns could be involved in cases like this? Absolutely not.
[QUOTE=handwalk;8304395]
Certainly would save the horse shows a lot of money if shows went to FEI med rules, or a variation of racing rules. No SHARPS containers to buy, to get replaced and pay biohazard disposal.
The grooms would not dread loading the Meds trunk 
Would veterinarians then be nicking away so not a nerve on the show grounds would be left intact?[/QUOTE]
LOL! I am an eventer, but had one horse that did not want to do xc and had a lovely jump. Sent him off to be a Derby horse. First time I saw a MEDS TRUNK I nearly choked.
[QUOTE=Dewey;8310615]
I started reading the transcript but couldn’t finish. I admit that it made me feel dirty.
Loved Molly Sarge’s article–keep it up, Molly.[/QUOTE]
You should finish it Dewey…just be ready to shower afterwards.
And what is this about sharps containers on the showgrounds? Is this a real thing?
