Colvin Civil Suit

[mvp]

[QUOTE=huntersgonewild;8317774]
No vet on the medications committee or anywhere else believes that the ingredients in perfect prep violate the letter of the rule. Vitamins and minerals do not meet any of the definitions in the rule. If you don’t believe me, call Dr. Allen and he will explain it to you.[/QUOTE]

You are missing the point of the “intention of enhancing performance” part of the rule.

It wouldn’t matter if you fed the horse Taco Bell…if your intention was to enhance his performance, you violated that part of the rule. And it has nothing to do with whether or not the ingredients of Taco Bell are known or not and will “test” or not.

See the above analogy about embezzling.

How do people not understand this part of the USEF’s rule? That it’s hard to enforce doesn’t make it a non-existent rule and, therefore, crap like Perfect Prep (or even Dexamethazone or Lactanase) legal when it is used to make a horse more calm.

[Peggy]

Not a pharmacist either.

I believe magnesium is injected a solution of magnesium sulfate? From http://www.drugs.com/pro/magnesium-sulfate.html (bolding and red added by me): “Magnesium prevents or controls convulsions by blocking neuromuscular transmission and decreasing the amount of acetylcholine liberated at the end-plate by the motor nerve impulse. Magnesium is said to have a depressant effect on the central nervous system (CNS), but it does not adversely affect the woman, fetus or neonate when used as directed in eclampsia or pre-eclampsia. Normal plasma magnesium levels range from 1.5 to 2.5 mEq/L.As plasma magnesium rises above 4 mEq/L, the deep tendon reflexes are first decreased and then disappear as the plasma level approaches 10 mEq/L. At this level respiratory paralysis may occur. Heart block also may occur at this or lower plasma levels of magnesium. Serum magnesium concentrations in excess of 12 mEq/L may be fatal.
Magnesium acts peripherally to produce vasodilation. With low doses only flushing and sweating occur, but larger doses cause lowering of blood pressure. The central and peripheral effects of magnesium poisoning are antagonized to some extent by IV administration of calcium.”

[mvp]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8317891]
I thought IV magnesium was illegal. That’s nothing more than lots of mineral.[/QUOTE]

Another great example of the “intention to enhance performance” part of the drug rules. It’s the amount and speed with which Mg is injected into a horse’s blood stream that gives it a powerful effect on nerve transmission. At least, that’s how I think the physiology works.

And this method of drugging is chosen precisely because it’s hard to test for. You can’t tell me that the folks using it don’t know what they are doing and why. And if they know that much, they know what rule they are breaking and why. Most of them, too, know that when you get the dosage wrong, you can kill the horse. None of this has been enough to stop people from giving IV Mg.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=huntersgonewild;8316677]
Brunello’s handy round this year at Derby Finals was also nothing short of brilliant, take-your-breath away, non-robotic, etc. … That is how it should be. [/QUOTE]

I just watched the you tube video of that ride, so I could see what you described.

The horse I saw looked quite normal, in a good sense. Alert, happy, forward, attentive and responsive to the rider, and remained balanced after the jumps despite the rider’s position.

To be honest I didn’t find him “brilliant” but I think that’s either:

1. just a difference in our definition of the word when we describe horses, or
2. that we have become so accustomed to watching drugged, barely awake horses that to see one who appears normal, is now described as brilliant.

I hope it’s #1.

[Mardi]

@RugBug;8317099

I’m going to be blunt: If you are not against the use of calming products, you are part of the problem. ANY product given for the express purpose of calming is against the rules. Doesn’t matter if it’s excessive or not. ANY use is cheating.

I agree with you 100%, and your post brings up this question.

In the August 24 issue of COTH, page 79, there’s an ad for Perfect Products, makers of Perfect Prep. The ad says, “When it’s time to be perfect, we make it simple.” Their products are pictured - Sane & Sound and Training Day. And then the words Perfect Prep EQ.

Featured at the top of the ad is a photo of a nice show hunter going over a fence. The name of the rider is on the photo. She apparently gave her permission to the company to use the photo to endorse their products.

The rider is a professional trainer. If giving calming products to your horse before competition is not allowed, and viewed as cheating, why would a professional want their photo associated with the products ?

[julipido]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8317891]
I thought IV magnesium was illegal. That’s nothing more than lots of mineral.[/QUOTE]

It’s actually somewhat different than lots of mineral. I say this having been on IV Mag Sulfate for 6 weeks while pregnant with my girls. It isn’t possible to give enough oral magnesium in order to have the same effect - and if you try, you get a lot of other very unpleasant effects (stomach ache, diarrhea, etc.).

When one is on oral mag sulfate, a pregnant woman cannot leave the hospital due to the risk of pulmonary edema. My experience was that the “mag flush” caused many unpleasant side effects - felt very flushed, sweating, like I was going to pass out. Once past the flush was over, while slightly warm I felt okay. It just relaxed every single muscle in my body. Including those in my eyes. So while I was on the mag drip, I wasn’t really able to read or watch TV as I really couldn’t focus my eyes on anything. It was very frustrating as my brain (not being muscle) didn’t relax, but yet I couldn’t do much. I wasn’t allowed out of bed without assistance, either, because of the mag’s effects.

So, why anyone would want to compete a horse in that condition is somewhat beyond me. However, a caveat - once the mag was “turned off” everything (including eyesight) returned to normal very quickly - so maybe the vets know something I don’t.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=Mardi;8318006]
I agree with you 100%, and your post brings up this question.

In the August 24 issue of COTH, page 79, there’s an ad for Perfect Products, makers of Perfect Prep. The ad says, “When it’s time to be perfect, we make it simple.” Their products are pictured - Sane & Sound and Training Day. And then the words Perfect Prep EQ.

Featured at the top of the ad is a photo of a nice show hunter going over a fence. The name of the rider is on the photo. She apparently gave her permission to the company to use the photo to endorse their products.

The rider is a professional trainer. If giving calming products to your horse before competition is not allowed, and viewed as cheating, why would a professional want their photo associated with the products ?[/QUOTE]

Despite the intention or spirt of the rule, the USEF until recently has been vague in their responses to “is it legal” equalling “does it test”. A common, though incorrect, misconception was “if it isn’t on the banned list, it’s legal”.

In the wake of these incidents, some lethal, the USEF appears to be changing it’s line. Yes, PP is a huge benefactor:sponsor, so there will need to be a major overhaul to comply with the spirit of the law, as written.

Many things need to change, not just judging,not just defining the rules. It’s an uphill battle but thing need to change, and can change. It would be easier if it started with the pros, but starting “in the masses” can work, as well. It will be a trickle up effect

I think that members, clients can make a difference.

[west5]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8317891]
I thought IV magnesium was illegal. That’s nothing more than lots of mineral.[/QUOTE]

Our bodies have a very complex balance of appropriate “minerals”.

They are very important in the physiology of muscle contraction among other things.

IV magnesium in particular is given in humans to treat torsade de pointes a very serious cardiac dysrhythmia (life threatening type of ventricular tachycardia).

Hyponatremia or hypernatremia (too little or too much Na/Salt) can cause huge problems as well such as gait imbalances and worse.

Too much of a water soluble vitamin and humans ( I’m assuming equines too) can just get rid of the excess by urination. Too much of a fat soluble vitamin can be toxic.

Vitamins and minerals are not just “no big deal” unless you consider death as a side effect to be “no big deal”.

[oneequestrienne]

[QUOTE=hoopoe;8316913]
we got this way when after a childhood of everyone gets a prize/ trophy/award for doing anything.

We have created a society that has come to expect that it is all easy and we should be winners for showing up.

truth is that it is hard, it takes work and to do it really well one should have a solid grounding in both fence work and correct flat (dressage) mechanics

finding the trainer that knows that

well so it goes[/QUOTE]

I agree. Finding the trainer is the problem.

I did find a trainer who is “back in the day” GP Show Jumper turned classical dressage trainer with very significant national awards in both arenas. The “problem”? While she is an amazing instructor, she will no longer have anything to do with the show world in any discipline. I have learned so much from her, particularly filling in the holes from my basic education (dressage) left from my junior h/j/eq days. No other trainer would take the time to go back to basics with me. It was all about going to the shows. “You know how to do this, get on the horse, ride the course, let’s go to the show.” No time to really get it right at home, then go to the show. I want to show again, so I am looking for a trainer to do that with. I know one trainer today whom I have known since we were both juniors who I trust. Unfortunately, she is based very far away and I am a barn rat at heart who wants to hang out with my horses as well as watch and learn from others.

Sigh…

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=huntersgonewild;8317774]
No vet on the medications committee or anywhere else believes that the ingredients in perfect prep violate the letter of the rule. Vitamins and minerals do not meet any of the definitions in the rule. If you don’t believe me, call Dr. Allen and he will explain it to you.[/QUOTE]

If that is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then the wording of the rule needs to be changed to reflect the current mores and practices.

But, until the wording is changed, outsiders cannot be expected to understand the perspective of those who are implementing it.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8317891]
I thought IV magnesium was illegal. That’s nothing more than lots of mineral.[/QUOTE]

It’s “illegal” in the sense that it is only effective (or perceived to be effective) for a short duration, and was/is generally given close to competing. Now that injectables are forbidden within 12 hours of competition (except when given by a vet), that would make IV Mg “illegal”.

It’s unethical and wrong in so many ways since it has that pesky side effect of an occasional death or near death experience.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=julipido;8318008]
…So, why anyone would want to compete a horse in that condition is somewhat beyond me. However, a caveat - once the mag was “turned off” everything (including eyesight) returned to normal very quickly - so maybe the vets know something I don’t.[/QUOTE]

I’m not condoning IV magnesium, but it is important to recognize that horses are not 4 legged grazing humans. Drug reactions/dosage/contraindications may be the same or they may not.

[vxf111]

My point (which I think was realized, but I just wanted to clarify in case there was confusion) is that the people who read “intent” and “effect” out of the rule to justify Perfect Prep (i.e. PP isn’t itself a stimulant/depressent/tranquilizer/anesthetic so it’s okay to give it, even if I am intending to calm and it has a depressing effect on the horse’s body) would also have to agree that virtually anything else (including IV mag) can be given so long as that substance itself is not a stimulant/depressant/tranquilizer/anesthetic. Magnesium may have (in certain doses) a depressant EFFECT but under the reading esposed by the pro-PP-peeps-- because magnesium itself is not classified as a stimulant/depressent/tranquilizer/anesthetic-- it’s as ok as Perfect Prep.

I do not at all agree. I am just pointing out what happens when you accept the argument that the rule prohibits only a stimulant/depressent/tranquilizer/anesthetic. That creates a rule where all sorts of things are allowed. I would argue that the rule prohibits much more. In addition to prohibiting a stimulant/depressent/tranquilizer/anesthetic is prohibits mood-altering substances, and any substance that has a stimulating/depressing effect. PP meets that definition, easily.

[NMK]

There are lots of good ideas on this thread but IMHO the only solution to really matter is to sanction everyone involved with the violation and establish some 1st, 2nd 3rd offense standards that have some teeth.

This situation is not unlike professional cycling. The Int. Cycling Union would have so much more credibility if they had taken control of the doping situation when they had the opportunity to do so. Now the trust in their credibility has been tarnished, and the public, its sponsors, and even its riders are paying a price.

There are petitions that can be signed, letters that can be written, groups that can be formed, meetings to attend all of which can be used to try and initiate change. It needs to happen before another incident occurs, or the general public will start to form their own opinions and open the door to activists.

Hypothetical scenario: horse dies at big name event. Necropsy performed. Illegal substance found. Trainer has multiple violations with the sanctions currently in place=public outcry- owners, riders, all escape sanctions. Same scenario with new rules: everyone involved with horse sanctioned with rules that have some teeth=public would see USEF doing their job.

[juststartingout]

Re-read the rule and noted specifically the following: " psychotropic (mood and/or behavior altering) substance" - that is the specific language in the rule.

Note – the language uses the term substance (not drug) which is a broadly inclusive term. Note – the language defines psychotropic as mood and/or behavior altering which includes providing a sense of relaxation, calmness, pain relief etc.

In earlier posts, ingredients in calming pastes have been identified that are used as sleep aids, as relaxants, etc.

Given the rule as written, these fall within the written rule.

If that is not the intention of the rule, it should be rewritten – but it seems that substances intended to produce mood and/or behavior alteration fall within the letter of the rule on a legal construction.

[SnicklefritzG]

Isn’t the person responsible for that pony’s death still in business doing the same program as if nothing has changed? Judging from their website, it seems like they still have a very busy program. Appearances can be deceiving, but on the surface it doesn’t sound like much has changed.

When people like Paul Valliere can come back on the scene and get clients both for training and clinics, that’s shamefull. I think he should be banned from horse stuff permanently. It’s hard to believe that people still want to train with these people.

[QUOTE=NMK;8318251]
There are lots of good ideas on this thread but IMHO the only solution to really matter is to sanction everyone involved with the violation and establish some 1st, 2nd 3rd offense standards that have some teeth.

This situation is not unlike professional cycling. The Int. Cycling Union would have so much more credibility if they had taken control of the doping situation when they had the opportunity to do so. Now the trust in their credibility has been tarnished, and the public, its sponsors, and even its riders are paying a price.

There are petitions that can be signed, letters that can be written, groups that can be formed, meetings to attend all of which can be used to try and initiate change. It needs to happen before another incident occurs, or the general public will start to form their own opinions and open the door to activists.

Hypothetical scenario: horse dies at big name event. Necropsy performed. Illegal substance found. Trainer has multiple violations with the sanctions currently in place=public outcry- owners, riders, all escape sanctions. Same scenario with new rules: everyone involved with horse sanctioned with rules that have some teeth=public would see USEF doing their job.[/QUOTE]

[BeeHoney]

Yes, the no injections within 12 hours of competition was intended to stop people from injecting things like Magnesium (and a few other similar substances) that are difficult to test for.

Before reading the court case transcripts, I personally didn’t see to much of a problem with nutraceuticals like Perfect Prep other than the risk that someone might inadvertently give something that would test. All a person has to do is say that their intent is to soothe a horse’s stomach or make shipping less stressful and they are within the current rules. Just about every horse in my barn is on some combination of nutraceuticals–for stress, for digestion, for joints, etc.–people just love to give supplements. I’m not sure if very many of them work at all other than to fatten the bank account of the supplement companies, but that’s just the current horse care culture.

However, after reading the transcripts I felt like I must be completely naive. Just as people are going completely overboard on injectables, including “legal” ones, people are taking the use of nutraceuticals to the extreme. I’m not sure that one tube of Perfect Prep does anything, but funneling 9 tubes into a horse strikes me as insane. Maybe they had divided up some of the doses, so maybe it was only 4 or 5 tubes, but still, that’s insane.

Still, I see a lot of logistical problems with attempting to ban calming nutraceuticals. How is the USEF going to decide what is a calming nutraceutical and what isn’t? You can’t use the name or label–nutraceutical companies are pretty much unregulated and can put whatever claims they want on the label and relabel a product or resell it under a different label at any time. Is the USEF going to test the contents of various supplements and figure out if they can be tested for on a drug test? Probably many of them can’t. If a nutraceutical can’t be tested for, that creates a logistical problem. It would be impossible to enforce such a rule. Even with an eyewitness, it would be one person’s word against another’s. If the supplement was administered via an unlabelled dose syringe, a witness wouldn’t even be able to determine what was being given, it could be something completely innocuous.

[MIKES_MCS]

Everyone keeps talking about how things must change, and how to go about doing that… Has anyone contemplated that ours is the only "SPORT " that as long as you can afford it is all inclusive, and by that I mean no talent needed. While you can participate in many sports I can not name any where by you can compete even if you have no talent what so ever. The reason this is possible in our Sport is you can literately make any rider a competitor by simply chemically altering the nature of a horse. All sports that I can think of have a tryout where only the most talented get to play on the team … In riding we simply need a client with money. You don’t get to play at the top of any sport whether it’s football, volley-ball, soccer, tennis , golf , Ice-skating, gymnastics ect unless you have talent and no amount of drugs , except in perhaps cycling are going to get you there with out it. This is a HUGE business we are in and who gets to the top is rarely based on talent alone… It’s been a long time since a person of talent , with out means, has made it on the team … and it’s not rocket science as to why. How many trainers do you know who will stand up for a clean sport when it would mean reducing their revenue in half or maybe more There are entire Barns that would not exist if not for drugs. to make it "better " more honest , more humane , you would have to not only bring the governing body on board , but the trainers , the shows, the owners , (and parents) the riders , the sponsors and the industry… That takes leadership and , well we just don’t have that kind of leadership . People protect their assets and every single of the above mentioned have huge assets to protect. The only way things will change ever is if the masses of smaller middle class barns that play in the Big sand box that can’t afford the drugs say no more… we need our own association, we aren’t going to play the game and feed it any longer… Only maybe 20% of the people showing in the Big Shows win … what happens if the other 80 percent who just want to play at a nice show stop going , The numbers that are left can’t support the big venues , and it’s those BIG venues that support the Status quo.

[lawn_chair]

That’s because it’s not really a sport is it? It’s a hobby/lifestyle. It’s only sport in the big jumpers.

[phanilah]

Mag sulate vs. oral mag

There is a HUGE difference between injectable magnesium sulfate and giving magnesium supplementation orally - injectable mag sulfate can cause collapse and even be lethal if not dosed and/or administered properly…that’s why it is such a concern.