Colvin Civil Suit

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8300910]
I’ll tell you one story that does make sense, at least to me… a hydrid of what both SR and BC are saying.

There was a lot of drugging. ALL the ground level people (SR/SS/BC/VC) were either in on it or at least acquiesced. As long as everyone was chummy, the drugging happened and lots of blues were won.

For whatever reason (maybe over the YR event, maybe over drugging, maybe over something else) a rift developed between SR/SS/BP on one side and BC on the other. Now a lot of people were worried BC would tattle on what was going on. So pressure was put on BC that if she tattled, they’d drop VC. The drugging continued because, well, apparently it was needed to be competitive. BC knew if she wanted to continue to have VC ride, she had to take the fall. So she tried to when the testers came. Only the USEF is apparently not that naive. And now BC is telling mostly the truth (omitting her participation) and SR is telling mostly the truth (saying the drugging happened but blaming it on BC)… and there you have it.

Speculation. But it’s a story that rings true to me.[/QUOTE]

My question might have been answered in the intervening pages – but when exactly was it announced that Clearway was moving to Andre, who would be helping Tori with her equitation, and that Betsee’s hunters were moving from SS to some sort of netherland which consisted of Betsee owning and Tori riding and ??? training (was it SR who took over the training when Betsee and Scott parted ways?) Were these 2 events simultaneous?

I have never heard of Scott Rivett (not that it means anything), but I would have thought that his name might have come up in conjunction with the split and reassignment of the horse’s training and care. (Maybe it did but I did not notice.)

As a comment: I have had 2 very sick horses who were given a lot of IV shots. It was my impression that any one shot would not be likely to blow a vein; it was the totality of shots which created an increased chance of ruining a vein.

Another comment: After the “Humble” episode at Devon, wasn’t there a rule change that prohibited giving ANY shots within 12 hours of showing? If the horses were given a huge amount of GABA the day/night before, which clearly violated the drug rule, then subsequently given a much smaller amount of GABA right before showing, which violated both the drug rule and the 12 hour rule, why would BC bring the timing and amount up if it was more damning?

Also: When/why would BC be in Europe while Tori was home? It seems backwards to me.

[vineyridge]

Maybe COTH could take an editorial stance that adopting the FEI Rules is the way to go in the USA.

[Cannonball]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8301368]

I have never heard of Scott Rivett (not that it means anything),QUOTE]

I hadn’t heard the name either. Google his name and look at images. I immediately recognized him as part of the entourage.

Also I’m pretty sure mom and Tori were in Europe together and Dr. Betsee was not since she does not own Don Juan. But I could have miss understood what I read.

I don’t know why but I can’t stop reading about this. I think like others, I just never thought they would do this…

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=caballogurl;8301349]
Sadly I doubt anything with change as long as the powers that be at USEF are in charge. Clearly top level judges ie Steve Rivetts are complicit in drugging horses. The whole situation is a travesty - Tori has been manipulated for her talent since age 7, but by 17 she should know better and clearly knew what was going on. Although, I loved the bacon commentary :lol:. Hopefully if she moves over to the jumper/FEI ring she can avoid the likes of Devin Ryan and surround herself with better influences since she is clearly an incredibly talented rider. Anyways, there is little opportunity to screw with meds ect in the FEI ring.[/QUOTE]

It’s quite possible that Tori did know better, but how many teenagers could resist the temptation of the type of sponsorship offered by Betsee Parker? It would take a VERY strong individual to walk away from such opportunities.

[2bayboys]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;8301067]
I’ve come to the conclusion that everyone involved in the horses knew about it and therefore all are considered guilty. No one stood up and said “hey, this is wrong”. Whether BC wants to admit it or not; she played a role in the illegal drugging of these horses and if felt it was wrong, she would’ve sought out a steward to have it addressed.[/QUOTE]

And I’m of the belief that Tori also knew exactly what was going on with the preparation and medicating of the horses she was riding, especially ones belonging to Dr. Parker. She’s not dumb, and she’s been in the very thick of this game for a LONG time.

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=hoopoe;8301061]
the only good that can come of this ( aside from juicy reading that Jilly Cooper will love) is the the sordid side of this industry is well exposed

perhaps judges and trainers will see that they have produced a generation of perch and pose , ineffective riders who cannot be called horsemen. The horses who gallumph around a far removed from the purpose of the Hunter; an alert effective partner for the field.

We have accepted and created this. It is our decision about what to do with it.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, with the USEF, the fox is guarding the hen house. As opposed to the FEI which is an independent body and can enact rules which make a serious attempt to clean up the sport (like the absolute liability rule for the PR plus everyone else who has tangential liability).

TB horse racing also has an absolute liability rule. Along with rules that only licensed and approved vets can give shots, and if a trainer even has a syringe on the race track grounds, he can be (and is) suspended. Sadly, suspensions are routinely stayed while the case goes through the courts. Sometimes it takes years before the trainer is actually forbidden to enter any race track grounds.

And, during the length of the suspension another trainer (usually the assistant trainer who has (conveniently) gone out on his own during the appeals process) takes over the suspended trainer’s horses. One can only speculate what phone and text conversations go on between the suspended trainer and the interim trainer.

As they say, cheaters gonna cheat…

[DMK]

Honestly, it wasn’t so much the lactanase or PP that got me, but the NINE tubes over 3 hours. I actually had to do hashmarks to keep track of how many. That left me with 2, well really three thoughts:

1. was each “paste administration” an entire tube of PP or lactanase? (my bet based on exactly ZERO knowledge - first or second hand - is probably yes, I don’t know that there’s too much value in dribbling out 1 tube of PP over 3 hours, but giving more than the recommended dose? Yeah, my cynical self believes that could be the case).
2. I really wish one of Moroney’s follow up questions asked for the breakdown of how many of one versus the other, and
3. Oh, come ON… if that’s your program on the can’t-be-busted-for-this side, WTF is right about this?

ETA - LH, I have had a horse where ONE shot blew the vein out, but that was a pony who backed up on the needle and ended up with banamine to the carotid (and lived!). But those are events you tend to notice (and boy was I happy it was a vet giving the shot). But yeah, the usual thing was more like Robbie in his final days - too many drugs, too often, drugs known to be caustic (my word, not proper terminology) and of course that IV tube/needle just ever present. Ahem. Not from drawing blood. THAT was comedy gold.

[caballogurl]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8301413]
Sadly, with the USEF, the fox is guarding the hen house. As opposed to the FEI which is an independent body and can enact rules which make a serious attempt to clean up the sport (like the absolute liability rule for the PR plus everyone else who has tangential liability).[/QUOTE]

This! I wish we would to a European model where most shows are FEI sanctioned, excluding local county shows and schooling show. Even though it would mean giving up restricted amounts of NSAIDs. It would help clean up the sport and it would mean all our results would be on Horsetelex :D.

[busylady]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8301406]
It’s quite possible that Tori did know better, but how many teenagers could resist the temptation of the type of sponsorship offered by Betsee Parker? It would take a VERY strong individual to walk away from such opportunities.[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t necessarily take a strong teenager, it takes a strong mother who actually has integrity.

Brigid noted that she said she wouldn’t sign as trainer at WEF and that Tori told her not to. Clearly she and Tori suspected the drugging would continue, but she continued to ride anyway. How on earth can you feel good about those wins when you know what is going on? I guess you just justify it by telling yourself everyone is doing it.
Cannonball, I can’t stop either. It is just so over the top and dramatic. I’ve gone back an re-read some of the Tori/Brigid interviews and I think Brigid really undersold her role at River’s Edge.

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8301228]
I don’t know what the arrangement is with BP but I would assume she is paying all the bills? If the Colvin’s would have dumped BP and gone to Heritage, would she have been able to have as juicy of a deal?[/QUOTE]

I was just going to post this question. I would guess that, considering the prep time for the documents filed, the case so far has taken Plaintiff’s lawyers at least 50 hours of billable time (on the conservative side). And these are NY attorneys. Minimum of $200/hour for assiciates’ time (again conservative) = $10,000 just for what we can see.

Add in another 20 hours of phone calls, Partners’ time ($500/hour) and the costs have to be well over $20,000 just to get this far.

Someone with megabucks is funding this appeal. :rolleyes:

[IPEsq]

$200/hr for a Manhattan civil litigation associate? Hardly. That’s probably what the paralegals bill.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8301516]
$200/hr for a Manhattan civil litigation associate? Hardly. That’s probably what the paralegals bill. :D[/QUOTE]

… 10 years ago!

[busylady]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8301490]
I was just going to post this question. I would guess that, considering the prep time for the documents filed, the case so far has taken Plaintiff’s lawyers at least 50 hours of billable time (in the conservative side). And these are NY attorneys. Minimum of $200/hour for assiciates’ time (again conservative) = $10,000 just for what we can see.

Add in another 20 hours of phone calls, Partners’ time ($500/hour) and the costs have to be well over $20,000 just to get this far.

Someone with megabucks is funding this appeal. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I’m guessing her initials are KDL, not BP…

[Peggy]

In response to the issues with minor children traveling sans parental units out of state it happens all the time. One friend’s daughter phoned her while she was traveling by car with a group of kids from Culpepper to Vermont(?). They had gotten lost and we’re going on a spontaneous tour of DC while trying to figure out how to ge headed back in the correct direction. My friend was home in California and was a bit taken aback since she always accompanied her daughter to shows.

[Ghazzu]

I must admit that I am mildly amused that none of the usual defenders of the status quo have jumped in here to tell the hoi polloi that the top level hunters all go that way naturally and that they are not drugged, and this is an isolated incident.

[DMK]

K D Lang is funding Brigid Colvin?

[foursocks]

[QUOTE=DMK;8301566]
K D Lang is funding Brigid Colvin?[/QUOTE]

THE PLOT THICKENS!!! :lol:

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8301549]
I must admit that I am mildly amused that none of the usual defenders of the status quo have jumped in here to tell the hoi polloi that the top level hunters all go that way naturally and that they are not drugged, and this is an isolated incident.[/QUOTE]

I don’t remember anyone ever claiming that no one at the top levels ever uses drugs. I don’t think evidence supports the idea that every horse out of every top barn is drugged every single time it heads to the ring - I would think that the suspension list would be much longer than it is were that true. But anyone who knows how to open the list when it’s posted (or click on a link when someone posts it here) knows that drugs are prevalent in the hunters.

Topic: I’m not at all sad that I’m not a part of the show world anymore. That transcript is so disturbing.

[Carolinadreamin]

I will gladly take bets on whether or not the deeeeeeeeeep pockets of Betsee Parker will in any way affect whether or not she is found complicit in any way. Would anyone or any association dare risk loosing her millions?

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;8301609]
I will gladly take bets on whether or not the deeeeeeeeeep pockets of Betsee Parker will in any way affect whether or not she is found complicit in any way. Would anyone or any association dare risk loosing her millions?[/QUOTE]

Under the current USEF rules, she’s been found as complicit as she can be. No association can do any more than what has been done. That part has nothing to do with her money. If you’re asking if anyone will stop riding her horses and ponies for her, I would bet money the answer is a resounding “NO”. And I’m not a gambler in any way, shape, or form!