I am aware of the rules, you don’t need to quote them. The Welsh cob on the trail is not on the bit, nor is the power coming from the hind end to the bit. Compare the two cobs. If anything he is doing a lovely lengthening.
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Here is a main ring show hack class where the horses are performing extended and collected gaits. They are in double bridles. The riders have dressage attire. But it isn’t competition dressage or even dressage. (Be aware a show hack class goes forever due to all the gait changes).
The cob on the trail and the cob in the arena are doing different things.
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@EnjoyThe_Ride @fordtraktor Isn’t it interesting how everyone sees different things. In the trail clip I see a horse that is on the (snaffle) bit and one that is moving more over his back than is the (very nice) North Forks Cardi. In the arena I think the majority of dressage riders are a bit fearful of letting their horse extend too much - the arena becomes very small when ones horse is really extending! A good Welsh cob trots at about 16 mph. In the past there were trotting races for ridden Welsh covering many miles.
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Agree with pluvinel.
IMO in this video the trot is overtempo and on the forehand. For me the trail horse is a fine example of extended trot.
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I think a few of you you would be pretty shocked at the scores then if you found yourselves at a dressage show.
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Speed trotting is not a requirement for dressage nor do you ever trot like this on endurance rides because this trot wears the horse out. Ideal trot speed is less than half your 16mph. Also the cob is not on the bit at all. Again, lovely horse but what he’s doing is not a dressage extended trot.
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It isn’t fear. My GP trainer, who has brought many, many horses up the levels to GP and trained with Kyra Kyrklund, says that horses only have so many extended trots in them when you really let them stretch out before they get on the forehand and you lose the rideability. That is the only difference between medium and extended trots…that little extra stretch. Train the medium and test the extended very occasionally. At a show, whether you can fully extend is dependent on how much your horse is on the aids…but if they are distracted/up/whatever, you might not be able to go for it.
He also says you have to ride from the active hind leg and up through the shoulders. If you don’t, what you have naturally is all you are ever going to have. Focus is on the hind leg engagement and ride them up through the shoulders and you can improve it over time.
I say this as a person with a horse not naturally gifted in the area of extension, so this has been a focus of ours for the last 2 years. The horse has improved so much, but it is a long process and requires balance and muscular development. Not just “let him loose!” When you get to the corner you need a balanced, on the aids horse immediately…a cob on a road hack doesn’t need that level of rideability.
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Define “on the bit”
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Here you go
The cob on the road is not connected through his back/body. He’s a nice cob with reach, but he’s not being shown “on the bit”.
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He doesn’t though. He’s trotting big, like a race Trotter, but that’s not the same as an extended trot.
He DOES have to shift weight back to gain the “lightness of the forehand” and have the next level of impulsion that extension requires. That guy isn’t on the forehand, but he’s more or less level in weight distribution, therefore not lighter in front. He doesn’t have the extra impulsion from behind because he’s more like a 4-wheel drive car, instead of a rear wheel drive. That IS where they have to be in order to progress to learning extension. But he’s not extended.
I’m not going to watch 38 minutes of video to find out where there’s (alleged) extended trot - can someone point out some timeframes?
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Is this way of going something you consider acceptable for a Dressage class?
I agree the horses in the hack class an the Welsh stallion on the trail are doing different things
Again, what does the Welsh stallion do that does not meet the directives? The trotters on the track are pulling a sulky, so they are leaning in to the harness to pull the sulky. However, those trotters have 2 foot overtrack…and based on my scribing experience judges sure are impressed by these giant overtracks
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Theses pix are of Bettina Drumond when she was Nuno Oliveiras student and mainly show collected work. Dr. Max says the following
But to replace the expression “On the Bit” and banish it forever to oblivion is really no problem, since over the past 50 years we have established a vocabulary of Dressage in America. Terms such as “Acceptance of the Aids,” “On the Aids,” “Throughness,” “Connection,” “Lightness,” “Self-Carriage,” “Swinging Back,” “Relaxation,” “Balance,” and “Engagement,” just to name a few, would much better demonstrate what we really mean and which are really the objectives of Dressage.
In a more recent example in an article with Christine Stuckelberger said, “Today you see the horses pulled together. This is a mistake. A judge should penalize a horse that is tense and always goes behind the vertical.”
Harry Bolt said, “Regarding horses’ necks, I think judges should be more careful that horses’ noses are in front of the vertical.”
Another reason the scores are so high today is because of the gaits our top horses show, not because of the quality of the execution of the difficult dressage movements. Just look at the horses’ mediocre piaffes, passages, flying changes and transitions, etc., we see in all the shows. But the German warmblood has a habit of going forward no matter what kind of head position the rider puts him in, even though this does not represent correct training and pulls him on the forehand.
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I think a few of you you would be pretty shocked at the scores then if you found yourselves at a dressage show.
No, I would expect low scores from today’s judges as I mostly ride Quarter Horses. 
But at least I know they’re moving well and balanced. I’m not into competitive dressage much.
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Speed trotting is not a requirement for dressage nor do you ever trot like this on endurance rides because this trot wears the horse out. Ideal trot speed is less than half your 16mph. Also the cob is not on the bit at all. Again, lovely horse but what he’s doing is not a dressage extended trot.
I looked at the video of the Welsh cob again. I take back what I said about it being a fine extended trot. It is a lengthened, faster trot. I would imagine if it wasn’t in slow motion it’d be easier to tell that it’s also over tempo - essentially running on the forehand. It has some great qualities but is not a dressage extended trot.
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Thank you! It is a lovely horse with a cracking big trot but does not meet the directives for dressage or for a extended trot. Can he be trained up to do those things? Sure! He’d make a lovely dressage horse.
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I think that, given your opinions on the other thread about scores, that you don’t really understand how the directives apply in real life. Especially if you think that a standardbred race horse is doing the same thing as a dressage horse performing extended trot. I don’t know how to make you understand that those are very different things, or that what the welsh cob is doing isn’t a extended trot in dressage.
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You quoted my opinion so I am not sure what else you want?
I have no words. When is the last time you rode an FEI level horse? Or a horse with even good, 4th-level training? Maybe (obviously) you are much more talented than I am if it take you "very little " …
And to say that judges today “usually” reward incorrect movement is just wrong - at least from what I see here in Florida, as I have scribed for all levels of judges, and for judge candidates in all levels of training.(wherein I get to listen to the instruction…)… Other nations’ judges? I have no opinion. BUt the training ours get is very precise and high level. Movements are judges on a variety of criteria, from the “essence” to the “modifiers”…
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IMO that is NOT an extended trot - it is a lengthened trot.
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