CREST Toothpaste for Sarcoids?

[QUOTE=caballus;4940338]
…Perhaps I’ll start with the Crest again on a regular basis and document with photos.

At any rate … for whatever reason, containing whatever ingredient, Crest toothpaste can and does get rid of Equine Sarcoids. Lacking ‘in vitro’ studies, the support of anecdotal evidence is overwhelmingly testimonial to its efficacy. (Just Google “Equine Sarcoids + Crest Toothpaste” to see how many have posted to their own results)

I WILL find out why – what the ingredient in it is that works! I’m still not convinced its NOT Sanguinaria and I’m still not convinced, nor do I believe, that the ingredients are always 100% divulged for products on the market as they are ‘supposed’ to be. Just take a look at our food products --[/QUOTE]

Please be sure to collect histology, immunohistochemistry and tissue data. Culture the cells from the sarcoids for several weeks to get this data. Photos do not qualify as data in scientific research articles. We use them to show results of given treatments but other than that, they have little validity.

As for finding out about sanguinaria, I suggest a good analytical chemistry lab with a quadpole mass spec. and a broad database for organics. This ain’t CSI.

The MSDS I looked at was from 2004 long after the leukoplakia issue was discovered so my money is that sanguinaria is not there anymore. I highly doubt that PG or others would willing keep sanguinaria in their products given that it has been shown to induce leukoplakia in users given that there are more effective and less dangerous products such as chlorhexidene.

Reed

I would think that with all those healthy, natural plant enzymes boosting those immune systems that no sarcoid would dare to rear its lumpy head on one of Gwen’s horses. :slight_smile:

Well, two days on the road and I just had to check in here. I don’t know why I’m replying to you Delta except to just ‘set the record straight’ …

My TB is an off track (raced for 6 years) and is now 29 years old. He is (veterinary Dx’d) suspected of having intestinal cancer and that’s been for a few years. He is a rescue. I’ve had him, now, for about 10 years or so. In fact, all but one of the ponies are former throw-aways – 2 of them to be euthanized for behavioral issues. I have 9 critters here and that includes a Sicilian donkey who is almost 50 years old. The youngest of the herd, right now, is 3 years old. I’ve foaled on farm and raised from 4 months and older. (PMU’s straight off the field). I also have a Mustang here – and they are ALL doing just fine on their ‘salads’ once a day and free choice hay. Misty and Dorian get supplemented Alfalfa cubes. The rest- no supplements. None get de-wormed other than monthly Homeopathic, none get vaccinated and all are shiny, bright, healthy (other than Mist and D, the TB) and have awesome dispositions and stupendous, strong hooves. I have no complaints (nor does anyone else who interacts with them in any capacity). I’ve been able to save 1/2 of what my grain bill used to be. For all these guys PLUS 3 dogs, 3 goats and hubby & myself I spent about $60 - $80 every other week in ‘grain’ costs. I used to spend MORE than that, WEEKLY, on various feeds and that’s not including all the supplements etc. I do purchase herbs as necessary (as I determine needed; not LSJ) for Misty but also have our own that we grow here on farm.

So, while you make fun of the veggie diet, I do believe, without doubt, that those ‘plant enzymes’ and raw foods make a HUGE positive difference in the overall health and well being of my critters – all of them; not just the equine. I also believe, more than ever, that the increase in Cushings, IR, Heaves, Allergies, Laminitis, White Line Disease etc. etc. in younger and younger horses can be attributed to not only their present diets (and faulty hoofcare) but also to the generations before them. (Read Pottenger Cat Study).

So keep on making fun – that’s OK. Cause it just gives me the opportunity to reply and post, publicly, the benefits of the ‘raw’ diet for not only equine, but cats, dogs, goats and humans, as well. I know there are others who are interested.

[QUOTE=caballus;4943124]
Well, two days on the road and I just had to check in here. I don’t know why I’m replying to you Delta except to just ‘set the record straight’ …

My TB is an off track (raced for 6 years) and is now 29 years old. He is (veterinary Dx’d) suspected of having intestinal cancer and that’s been for a few years. He is a rescue. I’ve had him, now, for about 10 years or so. In fact, all but one of the ponies are former throw-aways – 2 of them to be euthanized for behavioral issues. I have 9 critters here and that includes a Sicilian donkey who is almost 50 years old. The youngest of the herd, right now, is 3 years old. I’ve foaled on farm and raised from 4 months and older. (PMU’s straight off the field). I also have a Mustang here – and they are ALL doing just fine on their ‘salads’ once a day and free choice hay. Misty and Dorian get supplemented Alfalfa cubes. The rest- no supplements. None get de-wormed other than monthly Homeopathic, none get vaccinated and all are shiny, bright, healthy (other than Mist and D, the TB) and have awesome dispositions and stupendous, strong hooves. I have no complaints (nor does anyone else who interacts with them in any capacity). I’ve been able to save 1/2 of what my grain bill used to be. For all these guys PLUS 3 dogs, 3 goats and hubby & myself I spent about $60 - $80 every other week in ‘grain’ costs. I used to spend MORE than that, WEEKLY, on various feeds and that’s not including all the supplements etc. I do purchase herbs as necessary (as I determine needed; not LSJ) for Misty but also have our own that we grow here on farm.

So, while you make fun of the veggie diet, I do believe, without doubt, that those ‘plant enzymes’ and raw foods make a HUGE positive difference in the overall health and well being of my critters – all of them; not just the equine. I also believe, more than ever, that the increase in Cushings, IR, Heaves, Allergies, Laminitis, White Line Disease etc. etc. in younger and younger horses can be attributed to not only their present diets (and faulty hoofcare) but also to the generations before them. (Read Pottenger Cat Study).

So keep on making fun – that’s OK. Cause it just gives me the opportunity to reply and post, publicly, the benefits of the ‘raw’ diet for not only equine, but cats, dogs, goats and humans, as well. I know there are others who are interested.[/QUOTE]

When it comes to humans, go to any blood bank and ask them how many true vegetarians, not those that just call themselves that but eat this or that animal product anyway, give blood.:wink:
Not many, because so many are anemic.

I don’t know why you are so hept on feeding grain against hay, because most anyone I know with horses not in heavy work don’t feed grains or supplements.
We have not fed grain for years now, just alfalfa and pasture.

You just think you are doing something special, but if you look around, there are many that have and always have fed whatever suited the horse and their management and for many, that was not grains anyway.

As for deworming or delousing or vaccinating, as long as you have a closed herd, ok.
If you bring in new horses, sooner or later your clean herd will catch something that could have been avoided with more appropiated, standard management.

I sure hope that at least you vaccinate for tetanus, that is a terrible disease every horse out there may catch from any little puncture wound you may not even see, to chance on some odd, way out principle.:eek:

Playing russian roulette with the health of our animals to prove a point you can’t prove anyway is really sad to see.:frowning:

As you say, I sure hope enough are reading these posts and learning, although maybe not quite what you so happily think they are learning.:wink:

Talkin’ about horses here – they are herbivores. But with regard to humans, the diet would afford much more in terms of preventative ‘health’ if people would consume more RAW forages, themselves. I said nothing about being a vegan or what you called ‘true vegetarians’. With regard to that, a grain called Quinoa, just for example, has more protein, complete protein in itself, 1 cup has more than a 6 oz. piece of nice cut beef. And one can combine grains, vegetables, etc. to consume complete proteins. So those ‘true vegetarians’ who cannot give blood because they may be anemic, are not combining their foods properly to consume adequate complete proteins.

I don’t know why you are so hept on feeding grain against hay, because most anyone I know with horses not in heavy work don’t feed grains or supplements.
We have not fed grain for years now, just alfalfa and pasture.
I’m for feeding varied forages. Fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds … not JUST hay and pasture. The pasture issues is a whole 'nother one. So many people I talk with are scared to death to let their horses graze on pasture now. That’s just sad and its wrong. Horses have survived for thousands of years on varied grasses and other forages. The difference being - domestic vs. feral. Ferals are able to get a variety of different forages while domestics are fed mostly limited forage. I see THAT as an issue.

You just think you are doing something special, but if you look around, there are many that have and always have fed whatever suited the horse and their management and for many, that was not grains anyway.
And there are many others who have no idea that they can feed fresh vegetables, etc.

As for deworming or delousing or vaccinating, as long as you have a closed herd, ok.
If you bring in new horses, sooner or later your clean herd will catch something that could have been avoided with more appropiated, standard management.
I’ve boarded horses since 1987. Never had an issue. I daily travel to different barns, work with different horses and will ‘bring home’ whatever happens to be at that barn. So far, so good. I have horses in here occasionally for some special event … so far so good. The immune system is an amazing thing.

I sure hope that at least you vaccinate for tetanus, that is a terrible disease every horse out there may catch from any little puncture wound you may not even see, to chance on some odd, way out principle.:eek:
I use homeopathics.

Playing russian roulette with the health of our animals to prove a point you can’t prove anyway is really sad to see.:frowning:
I’m not out to prove a point. I’m out to afford the best care and health for my animals as possible. I happen to share what I’ve learned over the years and some like it; some don’t. That’s OK …

As you say, I sure hope enough are reading these posts and learning, although maybe not quite what you so happily think they are learning.:wink:

People will hear and learn what they need at that time.

[QUOTE=caballus;4943312]
Talkin’ about horses here – they are herbivores. But with regard to humans, the diet would afford much more in terms of preventative ‘health’ if people would consume more RAW forages, themselves. I said nothing about being a vegan or what you called ‘true vegetarians’. With regard to that, a grain called Quinoa, just for example, has more protein, complete protein in itself, 1 cup has more than a 6 oz. piece of nice cut beef. And one can combine grains, vegetables, etc. to consume complete proteins. So those ‘true vegetarians’ who cannot give blood because they may be anemic, are not combining their foods properly to consume adequate complete proteins.[/QUOTE]

A bit of googling reveals that the most common form of nutritional anemia is due to low iron levels, which isn’t really related to whether or not you consume a complete protein.

"Most of the iron in the diet is present as nonheme iron and consists primarily of iron salts. The amount finally absorbed is influenced by other constituents of the diet that either enhance or inhibit, by decreasing solubility and the absorption of iron.

Iron absorption tends to be poor from meals in which whole grain products and legumes predominate, but the addition of even small amounts of foods containing vitamin C (ascorbic acid) substantially increase the absorption of iron from the entire meal. On the other hand, tea and coffee, decrease the absorption of nonheme iron.

Heme iron comes from the hemoglobin in meat, poultry, and fish. The body absorbs a greater percentage of heme iron, and its absorption is less affected by other dietary constituents."

Beyond iron, the website I’m looking at lists folate, vitamin B12, and “other vitamins and minerals” as potential causes for nutritial anaemia, besides protein.

(Admittedly, it may not be the best website out there, but I didn’t spend a whole ton of time googling for something suitably scientific. URL is here: http://www.diet-and-health.net/Diseases/Anemia.html )

(Info about b12, too, which seems to suggest that plant sources aren’t reliable for humans as a source: http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html )

Don’t befuddle Gwen with facts or details. Protein, iron, vitamin, whatever. Trivia. :lol:

None get de-wormed other than monthly Homeopathic, none get vaccinated and all are shiny, bright, healthy (other than Mist and D, the TB) and have awesome dispositions and stupendous, strong hooves.

Except for rabies I hope?
That’s manadatory in MA and CT. Illegal not to vaccinate for that.

[QUOTE=deltawave;4943372]
Don’t befuddle Gwen with facts or details. Protein, iron, vitamin, whatever. Trivia. :lol:[/QUOTE]

That’s not fair. It was Bluey that (incorrectly) claimed vegetarians had anemia because they didn’t eat meat. (a completely irrelevant point, as if that has anything to do with horses).

Gwen was correct in pointing out that horses are herbivores (except of course when they eat herring) and can’t be compared to humans, neither stating they were anemic from lack of protein, or iron. You owe her an apology. You also weren’t nice insinuating that her 30 year old rescue horse was ill-treated and was suffering from sarcoids despite the plant-enzyme based diet he is fed.

—“Talkin’ about horses here – they are herbivores.”–

I thought you were talking about all your animals and were including omnivorous ones, thus my reference to human vegetarians, to try to explain some of why certain species need other than an exclutionary, only plant diet.

Guess that leap of understanding didn’t come.
I should have explained myself more clearly.:yes:

I think that studying a little bit of traditional science, what every kid in school learns, I hope, would help you understand better what is known to work in our physical world and why and what of those ideas you have are way out there and don’t make sense with what we know of our world.:confused:
Maybe the world is flat to you, but the rest of us learned eventually that it is not as flat as it seemed some centuries ago.:stuck_out_tongue:

I didn’t say anything about needing protein to keep from having anemia.
Someone else was jumping to the wrong conclusions there.:wink:

I’m sorry Gwen got bad grades in 8th grade science. :slight_smile: Sorry, but you’re not the referee and I’m not apologizing for letting my annoyance with staggering levels of scientific ignorance show once in a while.

—“Talkin’ about horses here – they are herbivores.”–

I thought you were talking about all your animals and were including omnivorous ones, thus my reference to human vegetarians, to try to explain some of why certain species need other than an exclutionary, only plant diet.

Guess that leap of understanding didn’t come.
I should have explained myself more clearly.
Perhaps I didn’t explain well enough myself … .The dogs and cats and Hubby and myself also eat the veggies – the dogs and cats eat them along with raw meat. Hubby and I do eat chicken, and other forms of animal/poultry now and then but try to ensure its organically raised. You assumed something that I didn’t fully explain, I guess.

I think that studying a little bit of traditional science, what every kid in school learns, I hope, would help you understand better what is known to work in our physical world and why and what of those ideas you have are way out there and don’t make sense with what we know of our world.
… would you be a little bit more explicit with 'those ideas" I have and why they are ‘way out there’? I’m not sure to what you’re referring – the Sanguinaria or the fresh fruits, veggies, etc?

Maybe the world is flat to you, but the rest of us learned eventually that it is not as flat as it seemed some centuries ago.

I didn’t say anything about needing protein to keep from having anemia.
Someone else was jumping to the wrong conclusions there.
Re: the world being flat – what does this have anything to do with what we’re discussing? What is it that makes you feel that I am advocating something that was relevant some centuries ago? Is is the FACT that horses have NOT CHANGED with relation to being herbivores since their creation? Ummmm, if so, then yeah, maybe I have missed something here? They haven’t changed in all those years – imagine that! Aside from that what the hell are you talking about?

I didn’t say anything about needing protein to keep from having anemia.
Someone else was jumping to the wrong conclusions there.
Well, taken in context of the specific topic of discussion at the time – that being the diet of ‘true vegetarians’, that would be the logical conclusion one would draw from what was posted. To what we you intending to refer?

[QUOTE=deltawave;4943395]
I’m sorry Gwen got bad grades in 8th grade science. :slight_smile: Sorry, but you’re not the referee and I’m not apologizing for letting my annoyance with staggering levels of scientific ignorance show once in a while.[/QUOTE]No, you don’t need to apologize. But your ego is showing …

[QUOTE=deltawave;4943395]
I’m sorry Gwen got bad grades in 8th grade science. :slight_smile: Sorry, but you’re not the referee and I’m not apologizing for letting my annoyance with staggering levels of scientific ignorance show once in a while.[/QUOTE]

She gets enough legitimately mixed up that you don’t have to attribute others’ mistakes to her, in order to get more insulting digs in.

Ahhhhhhh, gotta love these discussions. Keep it up you guys – your true colors are truly beginning to shine.

Have an awesome evening everyone!

Keep it up you guys – your true colors are truly beginning to shine.

Lisa St John must be sending them shining auras through their phones.

And hopefully sending rabies vaccines. I’ve seen rabid animals…it’s, well, unexplainable how horrible a disease it is. It’s also 100% deadly no matter what except for those vaccinated. Hence the reason for it being a legally mandatory vaccine.

OK – so now I feel like a complete idiot – although I have to say there is a more sensitive way to point out that someone made an erroneous statement, thank you very much … I was thinking ‘red meat’ to do with iron/anemia but then went to proteins instead, in my thinking.

In sticking up for vegans (true vegetarians?) iron is found in a number of different vegetables, though, in varying levels. Broccoli, Pak Choi, Spinach, Soybeans and a number of other food products as well. Again, if a vegan is anemic then they are not eating the proper foods … .obviously. And no, again, we’re not vegans.

And just fyi, MistyBlue – Lisa St. John and I parted ways a long time ago although I still maintain the vegetables and herbs for the horses.

Did LSJ move on to a higher plane of existence? :slight_smile: Good riddance. Plenty of plants contain iron, but the iron found in animal sources is a lot more bioavailable to us. But vitamin B12 is often a bigger problem (and a legitimate potential cause of anemia in its own right; although it’s very different WRT lab values and not “iron deficiency” anemia, the end result is the same) for “pure” vegetarians.

I cannot believe that anyone is so utterly unintelligent as to deny the common sense inherent in vaccinating for common diseases. Homeopathy will NOT cope with tetanus, rabies, and the encephalitic diseases.

Many of us are alive and whole today as a direct result of vaccines such as polio, and smallpox. To use an old expression “A pox on fools”.

Homeopathics for tetanus? Good luck. You never answered the rabies vaccine question either.