mine’s bigger and better than yours
Oh phooey, spoken like a real MAN. :lol:
[QUOTE=caballus;4945378]
Not wastin’ anymore time or energy.
Have a nice day everyone.
Enjoy playin’ with yourselves.[/QUOTE] Oh the drama!
Watch the door doesn’t hit your backside as you flounce off to Shirley’s cafe!
Or second thoughts probably off over to the thread on Dog vaccinations: great opportunity to spout a load of junk science there.
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4945328]
and that by some miracle they get from your stomach to where they need to be to be effective. [/QUOTE]
I don’t know if this is true but I have heard that it is possible to swallow things and by some miracle inside the body, the body is able to take those things and find a way to direct them to where they are useful. Also, that 70% of the immune system is in the digestive tract (which may be involved in the aforementioned miracle).
I got rid of my horses Sarcoid with a rubber band which my vet put on. (My vet did recommend Crest toothpaste, but said we would try this first.)
March 27th
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atanakin/4468332700/
April 4th (this is after trying tea tree oil which seemed to aggravate it)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atanakin/4488970012/
June 4th (it was obviously healed for awhile, but just showed all the hair grew back)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atanakin/4669937319/
Best of luck to anyone who has a horse with a sarcoid, they are ugly! I just like to share my experience with people.
Was the rubber band infused with sanguinaria?
Actually all kidding aside depriving a tumor of blood supply probably does have merit.
[QUOTE=paintmare;4945529]
I got rid of my horses Sarcoid with a rubber band which my vet put on. (My vet did recommend Crest toothpaste, but said we would try this first.)
March 27th
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atanakin/4468332700/
April 4th (this is after trying tea tree oil which seemed to aggravate it)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atanakin/4488970012/
June 4th (it was obviously healed for awhile, but just showed all the hair grew back)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atanakin/4669937319/
Best of luck to anyone who has a horse with a sarcoid, they are ugly! I just like to share my experience with people.[/QUOTE]
I got rid of my horses Sarcoid with a rubber band which my vet put on.
That’s also how internal hemorrhoids and esophageal varices are dealt with.
Darn, I was looking forwards to a bunch of gobbledygook about relying on titers to show vaccine effectiveness from caballus. Because I know it would be entertaining but sadly wrong.
[QUOTE=Androcles;4945516]
I don’t know if this is true but I have heard that it is possible to swallow things and by some miracle inside the body, the body is able to take those things and find a way to direct them to where they are useful. Also, that 70% of the immune system is in the digestive tract (which may be involved in the aforementioned miracle).[/QUOTE] Darn it… why did I go to all that trouble when I had my bone marrow transplant. I could have just drank it!!
It’s pretty obvious that a variety of treatments would work.
End of the day sarcoids come in many forms and with a variety of pathological features.
There’s as many treatment methods as there are sarcoids (not counting the home cleaning products and homeopathic unpredictables)
Also it needs to be understood by anyone who really wants to know about sarcoids that too often those who are messing about with toothpaste and self treating are also self-diagnosing. All sarcoid looking warty things are not the same. Such as equine viral papilloma (Grass Wart / Wart) and fibropapilloma also known as ‘Angleberry’ resolve spontaneously in almost all cases while equine sarcoid very seldom does. That most likely explains a lot of the so called “miracle cures”. Because of the similarity in appearance of some of the disorders it is easy to misdiagnose them either by thinking that a lesion is in fact a sarcoid when it is not, or by thinking it is not a sarcoid when it is a sarcoid. So that’s just one of the reasons you shouldn’t mess about with them.
I’ve had 3 horses with sarcoids in my life and each was treated differently. Indeed the last one I had with them was about 12/13 years ago and he had 3 treatment methods on 3 locations. He had cytotoxic cream (AW4-LUDES) developed specifically by the international expert on this subject, Professor Derek Knottenbelt at Liverpool University , cryosurgery and litigation (tied off with hair from his tail though rather than an elastic band). All mine were treated by Derek Knottenbelt. All were most successful and fortunately all with no recurrence.
What really has to be understood though is that you don’t prat about because true sarcoids can be really difficult to treat and you shouldn’t mess about with them without proper diagnosis. It’s best to use the most effective and appropriate treatment immediately to reduce the possibility of them coming on with a vengeance. The more a horse has, the more it’s likely to get. So mess about if there’s a lot and you’re likely to end up with an extremely untreatable horse at later stage.
To more or less quote Professor Knottenbelt’s guidance and warnings, it has to be understood by owners that failure of any treatment method is usually accompanied by the reappearance of a more aggressive tumour – and often in increased numbers. It is therefore important to select the best possible treatment as the first option. Any interference with sarcoids has the likelihood of inducing exacerbation and the worst interference is one that has no benefit at all – this simply leaves the case with exacerbation as the only likely outcome.
I’ve seen a few horses in my lifetime so bad with sarcoids they’ve had to be put down. I currently know a young lady who’s got a very nice Dutch Warmblood mare that’s most likely heading that way. Hers has fibroblastic sarcoids and so many that she is struggling to manage day to day life. They’re hanging under her chest and legs and so bad she’s in huge discomfort. To be honest if she were mine I’d have had her euthanased by now and that’s not something I ever do overly quickly or easily.
I’ve actually lost 2 cattle to sarcoids - albeit a sort of different type to what horses get. They were bovine papillomavirus infection.
When an animal has sarcoids bad or they’ve been messed about with then it’s really not pretty nor easy.
Each failed treatment attempt will have a significant downwards effect on the likelihood of a cure at the next attempt.
ILL-ADVISED ‘DABBLING’ WITH TREATMENT IS DANGEROUS and cheap, ineffective treatments are probably the most expensive in the end.
DO NOT CONSULT WITH UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE – they usually have no idea about the disease and even less interest in your horses well-being.
Please do take Thomas’s advice to heart. A year or so ago I got into a big debacle with Thomas on this very subject, but he is right. I inquired about the Liverpool cream with my vet knowing all that it entailed but was met with a total blowoff. I did not mess with the sarcoid and use homemade stuff on it. Fast forward and I switched vets and we set up a plan to deal with them including the Liverpool cream. But for some reason (and I was lucky) the sarcoid went away on it’s own. I did put silver on it when it got bloody but I do not think it helped the sarcoid itself. My vet came to look at it during this time and said to just watch. In about 3 weeks it was gone. Sometimes, and only sometimes you do get the immune system fighting it off and you get lucky. This was my case. But in future I will not listen to any vet who wants to say “it’s no big deal.” They can be very big deals.
I have a friend who lost a mare to sarcoids. She had 3 types with the worst being the ones that developed inside her body after years of letting them be. The mare was covered and actually died at the stud farm waiting to be covered. That I had a really hard time with because a month before the mare wasn’t even breathing properly with ones inside her nose and I said at the time, as delicately as I could, I guess you’re getting close to the time to put her down. She looked at me like I had 3 heads. I said no more because it was not my horse and yeah I could have stood on my soapbox but it wouldn’t have changed a thing.
Terri
What homeopathic unpredicatbles have been suggested as treatment for sarcoids.
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4945636]
Darn it… why did I go to all that trouble when I had my bone marrow transplant. I could have just drank it!![/QUOTE]
Indeed. You should have just taken a vaccine.
[QUOTE=caballus;4945256]
Nosodes work ‘pretty much’ in the same way as vaccines only are administered by mouth so the body reacts in the way it would as if exposed to the actual ‘bug’. The nosode will ‘jumpstart’ the immune system to build the antibodies needed for immunization against the specific ‘invader’. Nosodes are made from the actual disease. i.e. Lyssin, the Nosode for Rabies, is made from a rabid dog.[/QUOTE]
Actually, if you wanted to expose an animal in the natural way to rabies, you’d inject it, since most often it is passed by innoculation from a bite wound…
[QUOTE=Androcles;4945757]
Indeed. You should have just taken a vaccine.[/QUOTE] Yeh right… I could have done that and died.
Pillock!
[QUOTE=Androcles;4945751]What homeopathic unpredicatbles have been suggested as treatment for sarcoids.[/QUOTE] Thuja cream to name but one.
I will answer to this only because I am the OP and this discussion, as someone posted to me privately, has become a train-wreck.
Always consult your vet when there is a concern about your horse’s health.
I started this thread as I had been looking for a reason that Crest toothpaste is reputed to work so well on sarcoids as has been testified to by a large number of people on various boards, including veterinary boards. (horseadvice.com - Dr. Oglesby, DVM) The mention of Sanguinaria (Bloodroot) in conjunction with Crest toothpaste in a paper from the Naval Academy Post-Grad Dental school as well as another reference caught my eye. It seemed to make sense to me that if Crest toothpaste contained Sanguinaria then that might be the reason that the toothpaste works so well as Sanguinaria is the main ingredient in XXTERRA, the salve that is oftentimes prescribed by veterinarians to treat sarcoids. So it all made sense to me and I wanted to share for others to think on and do some of their own research as it may be of help to others.
Another substance that has been said to be effective by those who have used it is THUJA, a homeopathic cream as well as the ingested remedy.
I used Crest and Thuja with success for my own horse as I had read that most vets/surgeons will warn, surgical removal of sarcoids usually result in reoccurance/regrowth of the sarcoid. I had considered the ‘rubber band’ treatment but because the base of the sarcoid on my own horse was so thick my vet (homeopathic vet) suggested that it might not be the best or safest way to go about getting rid of that sarcoid. Thus, decided on the Crest and Thuja for my OWN horse.
I have NOT advised anyone to use this; I’ve given NO advice. I have posted information that can readily be found in written texts as well as online. I expect that reader’s will, as I said, research on their own and formulate the best way to go about their own treatments.
I will not further address any of the personal comments that have been made towards me repeatedly nor will I engage any further in any personal negative commentary directed toward me. I, just as you, have every right to state my opinion, and have my opinions respected whether or not someone else agrees or not without annoying, harassing, personal comments directed to me.
I will remind people, readers, that this is a bulletin board and there are REAL people who sit at another screen reading. Libel is a published statement, which includes online comments, as well as more traditional forms of printed material. Do be careful of what you write publically. Electronic harassment is also a very real thing in that knowing and willful negative comments, meant to ‘distress’ and ‘annoy’ (among others including terrorize, torments or seriously alarms) and are directed toward the same person repeatedly.
No, I am not pouting, I am not ‘retreating’, I simply refuse to engage in the harassing interchange that seems to have taken over this discussion. I’ve asked to be able to discuss things in an intelligent, mature manner. I’ve asked this same thing on a number of other public, COTH discussions where the same people seem to take delight in ridiculing me who don’t perceive things the way that I do. I refuse to be bullied into not posting on topics which I feel may be helpful and of interest to many. In the light of the personal harassment and libel of my own professional reputation I am now asking that those who have repeatedly been negative and deliberately offensive, stop. Simple … just stop.
The mention of Sanguinaria (Bloodroot) in conjunction with Crest toothpaste in a paper from the Naval Academy Post-Grad Dental school as well as another reference caught my eye. It seemed to make sense to me that if Crest toothpaste contained Sanguinaria then that might be the reason that the toothpaste works so well
Except you were wrong on this score. There is no sanguinaria in Crest, sanguinaria has been removed from another name brand of toothpaste because of adverse effects, and there is nothing, anywhere, (other than your mis-reading of a bizarre fact sheet) that suggests that Crest has ever contained sanguinaria.
So it all made sense to me and I wanted to share for others to think on and do some of their own research as it may be of help to others.
In spite of it making sense to you (we all have to beware becoming too enamored with our hypotheses, it is all too easy) a number of people did exactly that, and pointed out the fundamental error in your theory. So you learned something in your research: there’s no sanguinaria in most toothpastes, probably for a very good reason. Win-win: we all learned. I wonder if you will go back and correct your mis-statements, here and wherever else you’ve posted your incorrect discovery. That would be the intellectually honest thing to do.
Does Crest cure poison ivy rashes?
Sure it does! Takes about a week or 10 days. 
Same with the common cold. 
I will not further address any of the personal comments that have been made towards me repeatedly nor will I engage any further in any personal negative commentary directed toward me.
Oh hello, you’re back. I didn’t know it was a rotating door. Didn’t you say earlier in your exit speech that you weren’t further contributing?
Libel is a published statement, which includes online comments, as well as more traditional forms of printed material. Do be careful of what you write publically. Electronic harassment is also a very real thing in that knowing and willful negative comments, meant to ‘distress’ and ‘annoy’ (among others including terrorize, torments or seriously alarms) and are directed toward the same person repeatedly.
Thanks for your little warning but please don’t worry on my behalf. I’ve my very own computer crime professional expert lawyer on hand and for free just whenever I want it.
Libel and slander are legal claims for false statements of fact about a specific known person that are printed, broadcast, spoken or otherwise communicated to others. You post anonymously so you fail on the first test because I and others don’t know who you really are! And I don’t post falsely. I and others just called you out for posting rubbish.
I’m reliably advised that you’d struggle to get anyone to take on your libel case on the basis of being called out for the stuff you’ve put on this thread.
Libel generally refers to statements or visual depictions in written or other permanent form, while slander refers to verbal statements and gestures. The term defamation is often used to encompass both libel and slander.
In order for the person about whom a statement is made to recover for libel, the false statement must be defamatory, meaning that it actually harms the reputation to a way that is financially detrimental of the other person, as opposed to being merely insulting or offensive. You keep telling us you’ve loads of loyal customers that love you. You also are eagre to emphasise that you’re not making any money on actually recommending anyone to try silly treatments - so fails on 2nd test, no financial detriment! I’m not seen any evidence that your hoards of customers are here and if they were you’ve told us time and time again they love you and ability to perform miracles and ‘cure’ the likes of ‘club feet’ and sort out sarcoids and all with toothpaste and whatever the heck else you googled.
The statement(s) alleged to be defamatory must also have been published to at least one other person (other than the subject of the statement) and must be “of and concerning” the plaintiff. That is, those hearing or reading the statement must identify it specifically with the plaintiff. Again you post anonymously so you will fail there yet again
The statement(s) alleged to be defamatory must also be a false statement of fact. That which is name-calling, hyperbole, or, however characterized, cannot be proven true or false, cannot be the subject of a libel or slander claim. And again a failure at law. According to my personal lawyer that’s the one that gives you no legs to stand on.
The defamatory statement must also have been made with fault. The extent of the fault depends primarily on the status of the plaintiff. People involved in specific public controversies or in professional capacities, are required to prove actual malice, a legal term which means the defendant knew his statement was false or recklessly disregarded the truth or falsity of his statement. so you’ll have something to prove there! Private individuals must show only that the defendant was negligent: that he failed to act with due care in the situation.I published only after I’d checked that you really do go deliberately suggesting that all vaccines and medicine is bad and home cleaning products and ‘stuff’ is good and without professional training and with no regard for fact or science or even just the controversy that surrounds such stuff. Or to put it plainly you are spouting junk. Writing you’re wrong isn’t libel.
However and here comes the crunch, the aforemented was not relating to internet libel. I’m very well advised that the law relating to cyberlibel is much more complex and is still being established but I’m told that the present state of American law places online service providers and owner and/or operators of bulletin boards, whether they are home pages or usenets, in an intolerable position. If they attempt to exercise some editorial control and remove or prevent publication of defamatory material, they may be categorized as a publisher resulting in possible liability as a publisher. If they do nothing, they may escape liability as a publisher but incur liability for negligence, copyright infringement and possibly criminal prosecution. Thus, in the Internet world, if the accused is considered to be a distributor, then no liability will be found unless the individual had personal knowledge of the contents of the material. However, if the operator or owner is considered to be a publisher, then liability will be found. and there lies the reason why its wise for moderators not to be too heavy handed with editing and censorship
Libel suits for material placed upon the Internet is an exciting and volatile area of law . The methods that different countries currently use to resolve libel issues have no effectiveness. Whoops so not much you can do even if you satisfied all the earlier tests.
There is no international methodology of handling Internet libel cases. ah shame… a double whammy!
So don’t fret there’s absolutely no need to worry about me getting into any legal difficulty and if you decided you had money to waste then bring it on
[QUOTE=caballus;4945822]
I will answer to this only because I am the OP and this discussion, as someone posted to me privately, has become a train-wreck.
Always consult your vet when there is a concern about your horse’s health.
I started this thread as I had been looking for a reason that Crest toothpaste is reputed to work so well on sarcoids as has been testified to by a large number of people on various boards, including veterinary boards. (horseadvice.com - Dr. Oglesby, DVM) The mention of Sanguinaria (Bloodroot) in conjunction with Crest toothpaste in a paper from the Naval Academy Post-Grad Dental school as well as another reference caught my eye. It seemed to make sense to me that if Crest toothpaste contained Sanguinaria then that might be the reason that the toothpaste works so well as Sanguinaria is the main ingredient in XXTERRA, the salve that is oftentimes prescribed by veterinarians to treat sarcoids. So it all made sense to me and I wanted to share for others to think on and do some of their own research as it may be of help to others.
Another substance that has been said to be effective by those who have used it is THUJA, a homeopathic cream as well as the ingested remedy.
I used Crest and Thuja with success for my own horse as I had read that most vets/surgeons will warn, surgical removal of sarcoids usually result in reoccurance/regrowth of the sarcoid. I had considered the ‘rubber band’ treatment but because the base of the sarcoid on my own horse was so thick my vet (homeopathic vet) suggested that it might not be the best or safest way to go about getting rid of that sarcoid. Thus, decided on the Crest and Thuja for my OWN horse.
I have NOT advised anyone to use this; I’ve given NO advice. I have posted information that can readily be found in written texts as well as online. I expect that reader’s will, as I said, research on their own and formulate the best way to go about their own treatments.
I will not further address any of the personal comments that have been made towards me repeatedly nor will I engage any further in any personal negative commentary directed toward me. I, just as you, have every right to state my opinion, and have my opinions respected whether or not someone else agrees or not without annoying, harassing, personal comments directed to me.
I will remind people, readers, that this is a bulletin board and there are REAL people who sit at another screen reading. Libel is a published statement, which includes online comments, as well as more traditional forms of printed material. Do be careful of what you write publically. Electronic harassment is also a very real thing in that knowing and willful negative comments, meant to ‘distress’ and ‘annoy’ (among others including terrorize, torments or seriously alarms) and are directed toward the same person repeatedly.
No, I am not pouting, I am not ‘retreating’, I simply refuse to engage in the harassing interchange that seems to have taken over this discussion. I’ve asked to be able to discuss things in an intelligent, mature manner. I’ve asked this same thing on a number of other public, COTH discussions where the same people seem to take delight in ridiculing me who don’t perceive things the way that I do. I refuse to be bullied into not posting on topics which I feel may be helpful and of interest to many. In the light of the personal harassment and libel of my own professional reputation I am now asking that those who have repeatedly been negative and deliberately offensive, stop. Simple … just stop.[/QUOTE]
Believing what you posts is your right.
Saying that, in my opinion, so much of that is nonsense is my prerrogative.
It will be hard for you to find a lawyer that agrees that having a difference of opinion on an internet forum, where we are discussing horse health, is cause to sue someone.
I disagree with your position there also.
Also, if you say anyone saying what you believe is wrong and that is hurting some sales, meaning that you are on COTH to sell some goods or services, you are breaking the rules you agreed to when you signed on, I think.:yes:
