CREST Toothpaste for Sarcoids?

[MistyBlue]

And as much as I’m ‘enjoying’ the conversation there is more work to be done so I’m outta here. Flame away – say what you will – I’ll look forward to reading the posts later. It’ll give me something to do. ha.

In the light of the personal harassment and libel of my own professional reputation I am now asking that those who have repeatedly been negative and deliberately offensive, stop. Simple … just stop.

Go ahead!
No Stop!
Or I might sue!

In the years I’ve been here, this is such an expected response it should just be in some signature lines.
It also hasn’t worked.
And won’t in this case either. Due to the quote from you above on this subject. And also due to the same biased and inexperienced research capabilities you seem to have in looking up medical information match those in legal information.
Being negative and expressing opinions other than your own in what you find an insulting manner is not libel. Not even close. It’s also not harassment since you you started the thread and keep replying. Just because you dislike people answering your threads that might point out enormous holes in the logic and research does not make it libel. Nor does asking and/or politely demanding them to stop equal libel if they don’t.
You’ve also repeatedly stated you constantly get new clients and they all love you and insinuate we’re all doodyheads who know nothing and you’re so proud of your loyal and growing minions. So obviously no damage to your reputation or income IRL, unless that’s been a fabrication?

But then you’ve also made some statements as facts when your facts aren’t quite matching truth:

nosodes are effective, just as much as vaccines and even possibly more effective.

But this is the common last ditch effort attempt to salvage a lost argument. So very predictable. And why not contact the Mods for the libel?

[goeslikestink]

arh caballus now we comming to the bottom of the pit

ths is a huge advert that got you no where lol

you have tried to mulipuate people inyour way of thinking and have posted your web pages every so often as promoting your buiness

i would surgest - you give it up now
as adverts are not allowed

[terasa]

I noticed a small sarcoid on my gelding about 6 weeks ago. I had the vet come and do a biopsy just to be sure. At that time I asked my vet about various things re: sarcoids I had seen on the internet. To summarize his answers; Toothpaste, etc MIGHT work over time. He’s never seen a study scientific enough or big enough (in his opinion) to prove it one way or the other. So why mess around and take the chance that it won’t and end up a few more weeks or months along. He emphasized that it’s very important to address sarcoids aggressively and immediately, because they only get more difficult to treat as time goes on and they grow and spread. My horse is still quite young, so it’s not and option for me to wait and see. He said he’d seen some situations where they remain fairly stable and/or eventually resolve on their own, but those were the minority. Not worth the risk to me. I know toothpaste is cheap…but seriously, the biopsy and call out was ~$200, with the following regressin injections (1 per month for 3 months) being about $75 each plus the farm call. In my mind that’s a small price to pay for the peace of mind of knowing for sure what we’re dealing with and knowing he’s getting the help of the best equine vet available here. There is a lady I know that is facing the prospect of having her horse euthanized due to sarcoids. After hearing her story/seeing the horse they are not something I’d ever mess around with and I’d encourage others not to either.

[goeslikestink]

In the light of the personal harassment and libel of my own professional reputation I am now asking that those who have repeatedly been negative and deliberately offensive, stop. Simple … just stop.

no one is libel - but perhaps yourself

[Ghazzu]

@caballus;4945822

…Sanguinaria is the main ingredient in XXTERRA, the salve that is oftentimes prescribed by veterinarians to treat sarcoids.

I believe that quantitatively, zinc chloride is the main ingredient in XXTERRA.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;4946092]
I believe that quantitatively, zinc chloride is the main ingredient in XXTERRA.[/QUOTE]

http://www.vetlineequine.com/xxterra.html
"Bloodroot contains sanguinarine (the primary component), chelarathrine and protopine, all of which are alkaloids. "

[Ghazzu]

@caballus;4946169

http://www.vetlineequine.com/xxterra.html
"Bloodroot contains sanguinarine (the primary component), chelarathrine and protopine, all of which are alkaloids. "

You stated

…Sanguinaria is the main ingredient in XXTERRA, the salve that is oftentimes prescribed by veterinarians to treat sarcoids.
Read what I commented on.
I’m not saying it doesn’t contain bloodroot.
I’m saying there is more zinc chloride in XXTERRA than there is bloodroot paste.

What you quoted says merely that sanguinarine is the main component of bloodroot.
Not at all the same thing.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;4946182]
You stated Read what I commented on.
I’m not saying it doesn’t contain bloodroot.
I’m saying there is more zinc chloride in XXTERRA than there is bloodroot paste.

What you quoted says merely that sanguinarine is the main component of bloodroot.
Not at all the same thing.[/QUOTE] OK, and what I quoted just merely states that bloodroot is the PRIMARY ingredient. That’s all. Your point?

[Ghazzu]

My point is that bloodroot is not the primary constituent of XXTERRA.

Zinc chloride is.

In other words, you are mistaken.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;4946203]
My point is that bloodroot is not the primary constituent of XXTERRA.

Zinc chloride is.

In other words, you are mistaken.[/QUOTE]Well, shoot – then Larson Labs, who makes it, (see the link I posted) must be lying then as I took the quote directly from that site.

[deltawave]

Bloodroot contains sanguinarine (the primary component), chelarathrine and protopine
The way I read that is that sanguinarine is the PRIMARY COMPONENT of bloodroot, not that it is the primary component of XXterra. Also, QUANTITATIVELY, as Ghazzu pointed out, means BY VOLUME. I daresay that 99.5% of the XXterra is zinc chloride and the “other stuff” is the 0.5%, just a rough guess.

[kdow]

[QUOTE=caballus;4946205]
Well, shoot – then Larson Labs, who makes it, (see the link I posted) must be lying then as I took the quote directly from that site.[/QUOTE]

How about including the full quote?

“XXTERRA™ is an herbal formulation of bloodroot powder and zinc chloride solution, combined and stirred into a smooth brown paste. Bloodroot contains sanguinarine (the primary component), chelarathrine and protopine, all of which are alkaloids. Zinc chloride promotes inflammation of the sarcoids surface and with the alkaloids, alters the sarcoid cells so they become antigenic to the host.” http://www.vetlineequine.com/xxterra.html

The way I read it, they are saying that sanguinarine is the primary component of BLOODROOT and, in that quote, making no statements whatsoever about what the total percentage of the active ingredients are. So you have no way of knowing from that quote what the actual breakdown of XXTERRA is by amount/percentage.

[Plumcreek]

[QUOTE=caballus;4946205]
Well, shoot – then Larson Labs, who makes it, (see the link I posted) must be lying then as I took the quote directly from that site.[/QUOTE]

The link you posted does not detail the percentages of Bloodroot and Zinc Chloride in XXterra. Therefore the percentage of Sanguinarine is unknown.

[deltawave]

Hell, there’s probably zinc chloride in toothpaste. Quick, somebody Google it! :lol: If so, then in a circular sort of way, Gwen might be right. Although no points were scored for herbs and spices and their healing powers. Maybe it’s the nasty old chemicals all along that get the job done.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=deltawave;4946219]
The way I read that is that sanguinarine is the PRIMARY COMPONENT of bloodroot, not that it is the primary component of XXterra. Also, QUANTITATIVELY, as Ghazzu pointed out, means BY VOLUME. I daresay that 99.5% of the XXterra is zinc chloride and the “other stuff” is the 0.5%, just a rough guess.[/QUOTE]Well of course :rolleyes: “quantitatively” means by volume. Who wudda thunk. Yes, I know that. Thx anyway.

I’ve seen different ‘recipes’ for Bloodroot and Zinc ointment ranging from 1/3 BR:2/3 Zinc to 1/2:1/2. So yeah, zinc does seem to be the greater volume of ingredients for the black salve. As for percentage of Sanguinarine in the root, itself, guess your guess is as good as mine.

[deltawave]

As for percentage of Sanguinarine in the root, itself, guess your guess is as good as mine.
Which is one of the many frightening things about herbal remedies in general. Guessing gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[BrightandClear]

[QUOTE=deltawave;4946239]
Hell, there’s probably zinc chloride in toothpaste. Quick, somebody Google it! :lol: If so, then in a circular sort of way, Gwen might be right. Although no points were scored for herbs and spices and their healing powers. Maybe it’s the nasty old chemicals all along that get the job done. :)[/QUOTE]

For some reason, I felt particularly compelled by your ‘google it’ command, delta… :lol:

Zinc chloride is used in dental mouthwashes according to Wikipedia (if that’s worth anything to you). However, per the box in my medicine cabinet, it’s not a listed ingredient for the paste form of regular crest toothpaste.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=caballus;4946205]
Well, shoot – then Larson Labs, who makes it, (see the link I posted) must be lying then as I took the quote directly from that site.[/QUOTE]

There’s a pattern here. Again you’ve misunderstood or misrepresented what you read.

You said that sanguinarine was the main ingredient and that’s what our resident vet Gazzu corrected.

You were wrong. Plain and simple.

Bloodroot contains sanguinarine as it’s primary component.

XXterra contains both zinc chloride AND bloodroot of which sanguinarine is a part.

Zinc chloride is in larger quantity than sanguinarine in that product.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4946540]

You were wrong. Plain and simple.

Bloodroot contains sanguinarine as it’s primary component.

XXterra contains both zinc chloride AND bloodroot of which sanguinarine is a part.

Zinc chloride is in larger quantity than sanguinarine in that product.[/QUOTE]
Goodmorning and you’re right. I misread it to mean that sanguinarine was the “primary” component of XXTerra, itself. My apologies to all. I was equating “Bloodroot” with “XXTerra” thinking one and the same.

@Deltawave

Which is one of the many frightening things about herbal remedies in general. Guessing gives me the heebie-jeebies.

I agree. It bothers me, also, in not knowing the mgs of an herbal ‘primary’ property. Which is why there are Certified Herbalists who know their stuff! There are certain herbs that can be used pretty safely according to Hilary Page Self – “A Modern Horse Herbal” . In that resource the amount of herbs to administer daily are given in grams. On page 15 she states in highlighted text,

“IMPORTANT - Unlike synthetically produced medicines, the herbs featured in the Materia Medica which follows do not require absolute accuracy of dosage to guarantee success or safety.”
and further on the same page,
“Unlike drugs, where 10cc can be the difference between life and death, herbs are not an exact science and, when using the herbs detailed in this book, being 10 or 20 grams out on the odd occasion will not make a great deal of difference.”
It is also assumed by the author that “one herb only is being given to a 15.2-16hh horse.” and then further goes on to say,
“However, for readers who feel they need slightly more accurate guidance, an average size pony 13.2hh will need approximately 25 - 30 grams of dried herbs per day, whereas a large horse 16.1hh and upwards will need between 30 and 50 grams.”

I will also point out that this text from which I quoted is not written by a “Certified Herbalist” but drawn from Ms. Page’s personal experiences under the supervision of a veterinarian Tim Couzens, BVetMed, MRCVS, VetMFHom.

Thank you for the civil discussion this time round.

[Bluey]

—"Quote:
“IMPORTANT - Unlike synthetically produced medicines, the herbs featured in the Materia Medica which follows do not require absolute accuracy of dosage to guarantee success or safety.”

and further on the same page,
Quote:
“Unlike drugs, where 10cc can be the difference between life and death, herbs are not an exact science and, when using the herbs detailed in this book, being 10 or 20 grams out on the odd occasion will not make a great deal of difference.” "—

Those are very scary statements, really.:eek:

If using not enough, you will lose time the person or animal may not have to recuperate, may die on you, if whatever was used is really effective at all, something you are guessing at anyway without proper testing.

If you use too much, oh my, you may do harm or kill.:dead:
Seems that in that kind of fuzzy thinking, not knowing what you are doing is ok.:no:

What a way to dispense medical advice.:rolleyes: