Cross Country

[vineyridge]

[QUOTE=snoopy;7739456]
I am suggesting that less is achieved when you only have a few in the sandbox to play and measure yourself against. Judging is a factor across all levels. We have the horses, we have the riders. David is only two years in. I believe he will turn this around, our standard of training across the board will improve and our depth will grow. I am not prepared to write off today’s result as anything but tough conditions and a bit of bad luck. Some good combinations faltered today and some had a bit of luck on their side.

Are you suggesting that Phillip’s and Buck’s horses did not deserve to be at WEG? If so, we differ greatly in our opinions and it is a waste of time to continue other than to say that we agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]

IMO we had as good a team as we could field from the horses and riders who were available. For the first time in quite a while, our dressage was competitive, so that’s definitely progress.

If the conditions had been better, we probably would have finished a team and finished in the top six. But the conditions weren’t better, and we didn’t finish a team. Eventing runs rain or shine, slop or dry. Should there have been consideration that such conditions were possible?

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7739527]
IMO we had as good a team as we could field from the horses and riders who were available. For the first time in quite a while, our dressage was competitive, so that’s definitely progress.[/QUOTE]

Ahhhhhh…then we agree.

[nzrider]

[QUOTE=WasthatC;7739067]
I thought she finished after her stops - I think I read somewhere she was eliminated after finishing. And if she was eliminated on course why continue?
Maybe I have pieces of the info wrong. Are there detailed xc results anywhere?[/QUOTE]

They were only stopping people with 3 clear unquestionable stops. A couple of Ginny’s weren’t really clear so the jump judges might not have been confident until it had been reviewed by the ground jury.

[nzrider]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7738951]
AN looks like he’s motoring around.

And WFP holds 1st.

NZ has nothing to be embarrassed about.[/QUOTE]

No - NZ shouldn’t be embarassed at all. Sometimes just a series of things don’t make it go your way. Todd fell off, it happens to the best. No idea how Wesko was looking at the end but must have been pretty tired to be pulled up 2 from home by the ground jury, the ground just wasn’t his forte obviously. Lucy Jackson was having the ride of her life and looked AMAZING until the fall at the water. How far has she come in the last couple of years! She should absolutely be proud of herself. And very uncharacteristic run-out for Jock, might just have been the lack of competing in the last 9 months showing there, but he would have carried on if the team was still in it. As it is, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him finishing some unfinished business at Burghley next week instead.

And of course, 2 great rides to finish for the NZers.

But I hope you guys take the same away from your team, really they did look so much better than US teams have in the past. I said above as well, but Buck and his horse were looking like they owned that course, I reckon if he’d gone 10th not first he’d have finished with a fairly competitive time too. So often you see this happen, the first rider out is just not sure what effect the ground will have and so they have to also go for a good time as well as hope they have enough horse left to finish.

[JFJ]

Is there a way to watch a full replay on fei-TV?

[nzrider]

Yes, next to the “live” tab is a replay tab, it will be on the last page in there. They have everything unedited (at least they do for everything else so assume xc is the same)

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=monstrpony;7739084]
Buck, quoted on EN:

“Yes, it’s the World Championships, but he’s still my pet and he’s still one of the greatest horses I’ve ever ridden and I would never want anything to happen to him.”

And we’re still very proud of you, Buck![/QUOTE]

I read that he had 2 refusals at the top of the last water(?) and, when circling him to present him again, he could not get him out of a walk. (This from someone who was right there – not from Internet rumor.)

Seem to have 2 different stories here.

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;7739597]
I read that he had 2 refusals at the top of the last water(?) and, when circling him to present him again, he could not get him out of a walk. (This from someone who was right there – not from Internet rumor.)

Seem to have 2 different stories here.[/QUOTE]

No there isn’t.

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=SlamDunk;7739439]
And remember when Phillip and Buck rode the footing was definitely more tiring. You could definitely see that it got better as the day went on. For example Micheal Jung was the fastest for most of the day at 29 seconds over, but if he went later I’m quite sure he would have been able to be more in the range of the later rides and below 11 minutes.[/QUOTE]

Not saying that this was the case with Michael Jung, but before comparing times, look to see if the faster horse was held on course.

Horses which are held on course have 2 - 10 minutes to walk around and get their breath back. Yes, they have to start again in mid course, but they are already in “jump mode” so it is not the same as starting the course in the middle, before they are warmed up by easier fences. And their time is not restarted until they are back up to competition speed, so there is no penalty for building up their pace again.

I have jump judged 15 - 20 times and horses at the higher levels, which are held on course, often have faster overall times. ---- I daresay that many horses would have been close to the time if they had gotten to jump the course in 2 parts, with a 5 minute break in the middle.

And, while I have no statistics on it, I cannot imagine that any soft/yielding course actually gets better the more horses that jump around it. Perhaps someone who was there can give accurate information?

[nzrider]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;7739597]
I read that he had 2 refusals at the top of the last water(?) and, when circling him to present him again, he could not get him out of a walk. (This from someone who was right there – not from Internet rumor.)

Seem to have 2 different stories here.[/QUOTE]

That sounds about right, was shown on FEI TV too so should only be one story? Horse was just exhausted so couldn’t get himself together and over the alternate. Though I think he did manage to get into a trot …

[SlamDunk]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;7739619]
Not saying that this was the case with Michael Jung, but before comparing times, look to see if the faster horse was held on course.

Horses which are held on course have 2 - 10 minutes to walk around and get their breath back. Yes, they have to start again in mid course, but they are already in “jump mode” so it is not the same as starting the course in the middle, before they are warmed up by easier fences. And their time is not restarted until they are back up to competition speed, so there is no penalty for building up their pace again.

I have jump judged 15 - 20 times and horses at the higher levels, which are held on course, often have faster overall times. ---- I daresay that many horses would have been close to the time if they had gotten to jump the course in 2 parts, with a 5 minute break in the middle.

And, while I have no statistics on it, I cannot imagine that any soft/yielding course actually gets better the more horses that jump around it. Perhaps someone who was there can give accurate information?[/QUOTE]

You’re right there was a big hold at one point, and maybe a few of the faster times were a result of that. It did seem that the horses were galloping easier later in the day though even if they did have to get more creative with their tracks at the jumps themselves.

[JFJ]

[QUOTE=nzrider;7739594]
Yes, next to the “live” tab is a replay tab, it will be on the last page in there. They have everything unedited (at least they do for everything else so assume xc is the same)[/QUOTE]

I don’t see a “replay” tab I see “video archives” but I don’t see it there, am I missing something??

[JFJ]

Never mind, found it!! Thank you!!

[teddygirl]

I really feel that eventing has to do a better job in situations like this where the footing is worse than expected on a course that is already maxed out in difficulty, distance and terrain. I know the two jumps were taken off the course but the time was also tightened up by a full minute. I just hate seeing one third of the horses not finish. I don’t think that is really a good test or that the horses learn anything or that it makes the sport look very good.

[nzrider]

[QUOTE=JFJ;7739629]
I don’t see a “replay” tab I see “video archives” but I don’t see it there, am I missing something??[/QUOTE]

Click on live up the top, and then you see the “Live Schedules” next to that tab is a “replays” tab

[Brydie]

[QUOTE=JFJ;7739585]
Is there a way to watch a full replay on fei-TV?[/QUOTE]

Is it not in the replays tab?

[nzrider]

[QUOTE=teddygirl;7739634]
I really feel that eventing has to do a better job in situations like this where the footing is worse than expected on a course that is already maxed out in difficulty, distance and terrain. I know the two jumps were taken off the course but the time was also tightened up by a full minute. I just hate seeing one third of the horses not finish. I don’t think that is really a good test or that the horses learn anything or that it makes the sport look very good.[/QUOTE]

1. Two jumps were removed, along with 500m of track including one hill that was expected to be influential in sorting out fit horses. The actual time itself doesn’t really have any impact on how the horses feel about it or what they learn. Though definitely does for the riders as penalties obviously impact their score, but a good rider accepts that and rides the horse they have and the course that is in front of them on this day. Which is what we mostly saw.

2. While some very experienced combinations didn’t finish, there were also a significant number of very inexperienced 4* riders and horses riding for some countries that don’t have strong histories of eventing. Many of these riders did take most of the alternate routes and make it around with a huge number of time penalties, but a fair few of them were eliminated due to run outs as well.

3. Its the world champs, its supposed to be the course that sorts the top riders from the rest. I thought the course was actually very well done in that it was run-outs and tired horses that resulted in most of the eliminations and retirements. Very few falls considering the footing and inexperience of alot of the combinations. And only a couple of “scary” falls, most of them were just riders popping off the front.

I did not sit on the edge of my seat gasping as I did watching Badminton earlier in the year.

[bluefirelady]

Hi all, long time reader, first time poster. Just wanted to come on to say how proud I am of our Australian riders. I believe we are the only nation that got every starter around clear. Especially proud of Shane Rose and Stuart Tinney who are Australian based and don’t really get overseas to compete that much. Goes to show that a good combination are capable of doing just as well as the Europeans even though they don’t live there.

Anybody else watched on FEI TV and incredibly ticked off at the uneven coverage? Australia had the misfortune of being on course at the same time as the French so barely saw any of our riders (apart from 1 decent replay and when 2 riders were on course for a little bit when the Frenchman was finished), first two riders I think we only saw them twice. I mean I know France was hosting it but I thought it was supposed to be the WORLD championships not the French championship.
Even when the French weren’t on course there were times when they would focus on one rider and you’d see the others on course once or twice or not at all. Was looking forward to watching Alex Hua Tian, but barely saw him. Think the commentator had just about had it too. Especially at the end when poor Harry Meade was on and it was an important round because it could affect the team placings but you didn’t show him and only saw a Spanish rider who wouldn’t have any impact on the competition at all.

I know it’s not going to happen but would be nice if the FEI would release footage taken of other riders that wasn’t shown so the supporters and fans could at least see more of their rounds.

Anyway, rant over. Bit of whinge for my first post. Honestly I’m not always like this

[nzrider]

Agreed! The kiwis were on course with the German’s so limited coverage of them too but more than of the Aussies. Was a real shame, it was FEI coverage streamed to the whole world of the world champs. I hope they cobble together each ride and put them up but I doubt it somehow

[vineyridge]

I just watched the WFP XC, and if Chilli Morning hadn’t been a really big horse, he’d never have gotten over that fish at the last water. I was almost as exhausted watching as the horses much have been.

the round that I really want to see is Classic Moet and Jonelle Price.