I disagree that finding the right horses requires oodles of money. Patience, yes. Knowledge of breeding and conformation and even a feel for a horse’s potential. But being able to educate what you bought is also important. The example of WFP is true to an extent. Start with a class horse then educate it. Look at dressage… Carl Hester bought his WEG mount as a yearling for €1000. If my memory is correct Valegro was about €4000 as a young horse. He then had the know how to get those horses to the top.
I will say though - we have a young team and a few of the riders have proved they can produce multiple 4 star horses…so although we are limited, I do think there is potential for us Canadians.
[QUOTE=Blugal;7744101]
I disagree that finding the right horses requires oodles of money. Patience, yes. Knowledge of breeding and conformation and even a feel for a horse’s potential. But being able to educate what you bought is also important. The example of WFP is true to an extent. Start with a class horse then educate it. Look at dressage… Carl Hester bought his WEG mount as a yearling for €1000. If my memory is correct Valegro was about €4000 as a young horse. He then had the know how to get those horses to the top.[/QUOTE]
You also need a good eye to spot a diamond in the rough like that. Most people aren’t thinking Olympic and World level when they pay those prices for a yearling. Just look at what some of the big farms in the US are charging for some of their babies.
By the time Americans have established businesses to leave behind, it is maybe too late. We need to be sending our Young Riders to Europe when they turn 18 to live and learn the German or British system until they are 25 or so, then bring them home and support them here. Why we don’t do that more is a mystery to me. If that means we need to coddle the kids less here so they are more prepared to be working students over there, so be it. Some riders are doing it, and good for them. Tiana comes to mind, though she made the move later I think. It’s hard when you have a business to move. It makes so much more sense to do it before you have all that built up to lose.
If I had money, that is what I would try to do. And if I had my career to do over, that is what I would have done to be the best rider I could be. Now I am too old and too tied to my amateur working-two-jobs-and-mother life, so that ship has sailed. And I can’t even afford to fund my own show career, so sponsoring a young rider is out. If I win the lottery, however…
As an alternative, we have several pieces of Europe right here in the US. You don’t even need to go to Europe if you go work for Leslie Law, for example. It doesn’t get much better than that.
Maybe we should send USEF to Europe to live and learn a better system!
By the time the young riders are 18 they have missed a huge opportunity growing up with good horsemanship, a decent attitude and a background in riding for fun and with a correct start on their seat and riding more ponies.
And learning how to get dumped safely.
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;7744330]
And learning how to get dumped safely.[/QUOTE]
I’m just wondering how this related to a successful international performance career? Are you saying that North Americans lose too much time to injury through their inferior falling skills?
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;7744325]
By the time the young riders are 18 they have missed a huge opportunity growing up with good horsemanship, a decent attitude and a background in riding for fun and with a correct start on their seat and riding more ponies.[/QUOTE]
I think this is true as well, but we need to develop more instructors here who can bring up the youngsters at a higher level than we currently have. And the first step to doing that is to train our instructors for the next generation using the successful European model.
My trainer growing up was trained in Germany. I trailered for lessons every couple of weeks, which were heavily dressage-dependent (I did jumpers) and spent the rest of the time galloping my ponies and horses around the mountains of West Virginia and working on my flatwork and jumping at home. I spent shows and any chance I got riding horses with him, not getting “lessons” but he’d give me tips now and then as we worked the horses. I am by happenstance a product of pretty much the European model and I am very lucky to have had that experience. I am by no means an international competitor, don’t have the talent but I think that model is very conducive to producing them.
Well FWIW the USA showjumping team was lost in the wilderness for quite a few years. They seem to at this point have a minimum of two reliable top class riders with top horses that can perform against the best any day of the week. They also have the advantage of the rich WEF which brings over some of the best in Europe for the winter to compete on the USA soil. Maybe the USA needs to become the winter playland of Europe for top eventers (which I realize would throw everything off as winter is not when eventers compete at the top level but neither is summer when the ground gets hard?!)
We have several exemplary owners here. Jane Clark, Ms. Mars, the Segals, etc. But how many of them leave huge bequests to the USEF, USET, USEA, etc. When they have no heirs of their body, why wouldn’t they leave such bequests? Ms. Mars is a multi-billionaire with no children of her own. Wouldn’t it be great if she were to leave US horse sport just one of those multi-billions?
To me, it’s as much about funding as about horses and riders. If we had a trust that would support sending riders to Europe, as someone above said, to learn their systems, and then bring them home, we would improve. It wouldn’t even have to be aiming for elite riders, but elite coaches and trainers who know how to train young horses and riders correctly.
Horse sport in the US simply needs more funding for many reasons. I think I read something about dressage being able to bring in less than 100k for WEG.
We could have young rider programs and camps as the USHJA has instituted if the money were there.
Viney - many of those folks have already spent tons of money supporting the USEF/USET for decades. Plus look at the listings of those who have donated monies and you will see that anonymous is usually at the head of the list. Many people give without any desire for publicity.
JER/Snoopy/Canadian folks - honest question, no snark implied. Wofford was the “Canadian Coach” for several years prior to DOC’s term. I understand Wofford’s time was loosy-goosy with limited funding and so did not have the desired effects. However how much of DOC’s 2010 success was because of Wofford?
IMO - The US owned eventing under LeGoff with riders who were either supported by their families or by sponsors. Also at that time the entire US eventing season ran from late Feb/early March to early November with 2 Long Format Advance 3-Day Events being the destination competitions. Here in Area III - we had around 10 recognized events in the spring and maybe 8 in the fall. No recognized events from Memorial Day to Labor Day.
Now the Eventing circuit is much like the H/J circuit and many Eventing Pro’s have followed the same business model. So they are dependent on competing to earn a living.
Which makes it financially difficult for riders to spend a week to a month with the head coach like they were required to do with LeGoff.
I don’t have an answer, but “we” need to figure out a team model that works in our current environment. “WE” also need to review our overall eventing model and be prepared to make changes to improve from bottom to top.
Finally we in the US do not ride across country like we used to. Some due to reduced open land, some due to people’s fear of injuring their horses. For what it is worth - my almost 36 year old TB mare I rode at Prelim level in GA has clean, tight legs. My barefoot 20 year old TWH gelding with limited work does not have the same tight legs.
Help is on the way; http://www.usefnetwork.com/news/11422/2014/7/2/will_connell_named_as_usef_director.aspx
Maybe even superman could not fix it though !
If there were more focus on bequests, lots of good things could happen. Because the bequest would be going to a charity, for the very rich it could mean less estate tax on the remainder of the estate. Because the giver is dead, publicity wouldn’t matter. Ms. Kroc gave vast sums to the Salvation Army and NPR. If you have no children that you need to support after death and you want to keep the IRS at bay, donations to charities are the way to go. To me it’s a no brainer for the USEF, etc. to seek bequests. Every other charity does.
A gift amount may seem large while the donor is living, but relatively small in that same amount’s effect on a dead person.
getting Will Connell is really great.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7744856]
If there were more focus on bequests, lots of good things could happen. Because the bequest would be going to a charity, for the very rich it could mean less estate tax on the remainder of the estate. Because the giver is dead, publicity wouldn’t matter. Ms. Kroc gave vast sums to the Salvation Army and NPR. If you have no children that you need to support after death and you want to keep the IRS at bay, donations to charities are the way to go. To me it’s a no brainer for the USEF, etc. to seek bequests. Every other charity does.
A gift amount may seem large while the donor is living, but relatively small in that same amount’s effect on a dead person.[/QUOTE]
It is none of our business how others spend or donate their monies. Just it is none of my business how you plan to donate yours.
For the record - people such as Jane Clark and Mrs. Mars have and still do spend money supporting US riders and teams. Their respective financial planners have already assisted them with their current and post death spending.
Just giving money to an organization does not mean it will be spent wisely. Something DH and I have seen firsthand with the local military school. For the past 10+ years, people began to donate money with a specific designation - not to the “black hole” known as the general fund. The school administration has adjusted to this and now identifies specific needs instead of requesting donations to the “general fund”.
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;7744321]
Maybe we should send USEF to Europe to live and learn a better system![/QUOTE]
indeed !! 
Can think of at least two younger riders who have based themselves in England for a time, Sinead and Clark Montgomery. Clark may be a good candidate for the team for Rio, if all goes as planned for him in Europe. Was sorry he didn’t have a ready horse for WEG.
Completely agree. With the caveat “4*-ready mount”. Many are mounted on very good horses, just not quite the experience and/or caliber the rider really needs. At that level, the rider can develop much faster than the horse.
If every USA WEG rider had been on a horse the equivalent of Shamwari 4, I think it would have been a very different outcome.
I think we have a fair few riders who, with the right horse, would be catching up fast to the European top guns. I think Sinead and Allison gave a demonstration of that in 2012. And Boyd has joined that tier. Clark is cracking the wall. Lookin’ good.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7744272]By the time Americans have established businesses to leave behind, it is maybe too late. We need to be sending our Young Riders to Europe when they turn 18 to live and learn the German or British system until they are 25 or so, then bring them home and support them here. …
[/QUOTE]
‘Like’ this. I would probably send them at age 14 or 15, though. But that’s pretty early to know which will stick with the sport. That age needs to be free to choose their own path.
Kids in mainstream college sports are getting college sports scholarship offers at very early ages. Contingent on certain progress and so forth. My 14 yo nephew has already gotten a letter that he is on a scholarship track for a particular university in lacrosse. He was invited to travel across the country for a “combine” type of camp this summer for kids in his age range (entering freshman in high school this semester) (He did go, happy to say.)
It would be great to see programs like this in the US for eventing. Some learning grants are given out and that’s good, but I don’t know if we really have a broad-based support system for years of development. There is a reason the serious sports schools have decided they want to track kids early and make sure they are getting the development they need to make the most of their college sports opportunities.
Considering the junior riding population, only a tiny, tiny handful are eligible to go to NAJYR championships. That’s a nice program, but it would be nice to see it greatly expanded so that it could be a development program for many more young riders.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7744745 Ms. Mars is a multi-billionaire with no children of her own. Wouldn’t it be great if she were to leave US horse sport just one of those multi-billions?.[/QUOTE]
She has 3 children.
JMHO I don’t think its the horses, as some riders have had a pretty much open checkbook for purchases. Perhaps it has more to do with how those riders treat their patrons. Too many I believe have quite large egos and begin to dismiss those owners who are providing their mounts. That will only go on for so long until the owners get fed up. Its a bad system though, where the riders have to depend on the generosity of non-relatives for their their rides.
Some riders do have to bust their buns with lessons, clinics, and sales, but others have not really had to do that.
This was in reference to getting young riders to really have the opportunity to become steeped in horsemanship and riding … which should always include how to fall. Put them on smaller horses … whatever … they need to be comfortable with all kinds of things that go with riding.
We have many riders, especially in dressage, that honestly are afraid to really drive a horse forward … and it shows.
The best way to get out of almost all horse jams is to go forward …
But, least I be mistaken for what forward means, it doesn’t mean running around everywhere, only that the horse will respond to moving off the leg into the future.
Posted by Blugal:
I’m just wondering how this related to a successful international performance career? Are you saying that North Americans lose too much time to injury through their inferior falling skills?
