I actually think much of it was due to the shift in Equine Canadas thinking back then…then they booted out the CEO and now we are back to the drawing board.
[QUOTE=Jealoushe;7744932]
I actually think much of it was due to the shift in Equine Canadas thinking back then…then they booted out the CEO and now we are back to the drawing board.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info!
What if there was actually money involved at the upper level–at least top GP horses can deflect some of the huge costs to owners by winnings.
[QUOTE=SLR;7744908]
She has 3 children. [/QUOTE]
Rats!
Clark Montgomery will have to get himself other horses because the two he has now are simply not up to 4* XC.
What makes finding excellent event horses for Games and 4*s is that the horse has to have the gaits to do well in dressage, the power and scope to sj when tired, and the stamina and gallop for XC. I would think those horses would be much harder to find than those dedicated to just one discipline.
All this talk of needing better horses makes me think of a couple really nice horses that passed away recently that were promising - Lionheart and Conair.
My contribution isn’t large, but I am part of a syndicate for Tamie Smith. She is talented and is the hardest worker I have ever seen. As individuals, we can “pack up” and be part of the solution.
[QUOTE=PhoenixFarm;7743827]
Agree. And I’ve said it before and ill say it again–the reason we keep getting our a$$e$ handed to us is not because of lack of rider skill or horseflesh, but because their elite riders can make a living doing nothing but being elite riders. WFP doesn’t teach lessons, hardly ever teaches clinics, doesn’t really have students in the way we would consider it, and the only time he rides a baby is when it is owned by one of his long time owners. Otherwise, he rides a handful of FEI-level event horses, day in and day out, focusing on nothing but the production of elite 4-star horses. Ditto Jung, ditto, well, almost all of them.
Contrast that with what our rider must do to just feed themselves, and it’s no great mystery why we struggle. Now, as far as changing our culture to be competitive? Well, lets just say while we’re wish granting, I’d like to lose 40lbs and travel abroad on magic teleporting unicorns because I hate to fly.
Patronage of that sort is not an American tradition like that. And Americans tend to wig at any sense of elitism (read the WFP clinic kerfluffle from last year–the sky was falling because he didn’t teach anyone below training level).
So basically, we’re kinda screwed. :([/QUOTE]
You could not be more wrong.
A MJ after having won the Title in Lexington, showed up at a Dressage and Jumper Show the following week end, showing young horses.
MJ parents bought his mare, its a family business, a rather large stable.
Eventing in Germany was a stepchild of the Olympic Equestrian Sport, till Athens.
First big international Event for the current National Trainer, Hans Melzer.
Under Melzer a system was developed, that brings first class young riders into international competition and match them with horses. Develop them, slowly.
Second with the success, money came in, from the government sponsorship and naturally from privat hand.
The government sponsorship is based on success, if your sport does not deliver, it gets a tokem, base money, if your sport delivers, as in medals, it gets a lot of money. Naturally same from privat hands.
Germanies Eventing delivers, with medals, so it has a lot of money, the organization and naturally the riders and horse owners.
But till Athens, it was rather tough to make a living with Eventing, very bare pickings.
Even today, MJ, Klimke, Debo, A, you name them, spent more time doing dressage and jumper shows than eventing.
Just check their schedule on their websites and compare it to the US pros.
It seams to me they are Eventers on the side, not full time, less than part time.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7744272]
By the time Americans have established businesses to leave behind, it is maybe too late. We need to be sending our Young Riders to Europe when they turn 18 to live and learn the German or British system until they are 25 or so, then bring them home and support them here. Why we don’t do that more is a mystery to me. If that means we need to coddle the kids less here so they are more prepared to be working students over there, so be it. Some riders are doing it, and good for them. Tiana comes to mind, though she made the move later I think. It’s hard when you have a business to move. It makes so much more sense to do it before you have all that built up to lose.
If I had money, that is what I would try to do. And if I had my career to do over, that is what I would have done to be the best rider I could be. Now I am too old and too tied to my amateur working-two-jobs-and-mother life, so that ship has sailed. And I can’t even afford to fund my own show career, so sponsoring a young rider is out. If I win the lottery, however…
As an alternative, we have several pieces of Europe right here in the US. You don’t even need to go to Europe if you go work for Leslie Law, for example. It doesn’t get much better than that.[/QUOTE]
There is one family who has done that, on their own.
But they are not establishment, even that the daughter has done Rolex and was spare for Aachen.
No way that anybody of the establishment would look their way.
That is part of the problem, huge part
[QUOTE=Blugal;7744101]
I disagree that finding the right horses requires oodles of money. Patience, yes. Knowledge of breeding and conformation and even a feel for a horse’s potential. But being able to educate what you bought is also important. The example of WFP is true to an extent. Start with a class horse then educate it. Look at dressage… Carl Hester bought his WEG mount as a yearling for €1000. If my memory is correct Valegro was about €4000 as a young horse. He then had the know how to get those horses to the top.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely correct, As horse was 10k.
The problem the US has, there is no real program that develops young horses and riders under the guardian ship of the national coaches and than slowly integrates them into the national team and than helps them to be successful.
National coach is not a part time job, its full time, you can not have your private business on the side. You can not course design, train or clinic and than when ever you have time, be national coach.
That is part of the problem, the US national coaches serve to many masters.
It is not about money. US Eventing has tons of money. The amounts spent on eventing are huge. The problem is how to organize that money and use it efectifly
Gnep thank you for the last 3 or so comments. Spot on!!!
This…because riders are spending all their time coaching and competing just making enough money to scrape by. A new business plan is needed, so they can concentrate more on their own training.
Gnep’s description of the German system is pretty much what the US was doing with Gladstone.
And that was working.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7745873]
Gnep’s description of the German system is pretty much what the US was doing with Gladstone.[/QUOTE]
Why did things change?
[QUOTE=Gnep;7745632]
You could not be more wrong.
A MJ after having won the Title in Lexington, showed up at a Dressage and Jumper Show the following week end, showing young horses.
MJ parents bought his mare, its a family business, a rather large stable.
Eventing in Germany was a stepchild of the Olympic Equestrian Sport, till Athens.
First big international Event for the current National Trainer, Hans Melzer.
Under Melzer a system was developed, that brings first class young riders into international competition and match them with horses. Develop them, slowly.
Second with the success, money came in, from the government sponsorship and naturally from privat hand.
The government sponsorship is based on success, if your sport does not deliver, it gets a tokem, base money, if your sport delivers, as in medals, it gets a lot of money. Naturally same from privat hands.
Germanies Eventing delivers, with medals, so it has a lot of money, the organization and naturally the riders and horse owners.
But till Athens, it was rather tough to make a living with Eventing, very bare pickings.
Even today, MJ, Klimke, Debo, A, you name them, spent more time doing dressage and jumper shows than eventing.
Just check their schedule on their websites and compare it to the US pros.
It seams to me they are Eventers on the side, not full time, less than part time.[/QUOTE]
No wonder they are better at dressage and show jumping than the US riders.
[QUOTE=Jealoushe;7745847]
This…because riders are spending all their time coaching and competing just making enough money to scrape by. A new business plan is needed, so they can concentrate more on their own training.[/QUOTE]
I don’t get this. This is not the only way to make money in horses. The pro I support makes almost all of her money selling horses and gets experience while riding them, and she is definitely not anywhere close to struggling. She lessons a few people and coaches a bit a shows, and this pays for her personal horses/show expenses. Teaching lessons and clinics is not the only model - why aren’t more pros using a different one?
The world changed. Probably the biggest change was the Olympics abandoning the amateur rule. And several lawsuits over team selection in jumping. And lack of money to support a Gladstone type facility. And loss of complete USET coach control over riders.
[QUOTE=CatchMeIfUCan;7746023]
I don’t get this. This is not the only way to make money in horses. The pro I support makes almost all of her money selling horses and gets experience while riding them, and she is definitely not anywhere close to struggling. She lessons a few people and coaches a bit a shows, and this pays for her personal horses/show expenses. Teaching lessons and clinics is not the only model - why aren’t more pros using a different one?[/QUOTE]
That plan is obviously not working either though - unless they are winning at the 4* level, not sure who your pro is so can’t really comment. Getting experience riding sales horses is not the experience that is going to get you out there dominating internationally.
