Cross Country

[vineyridge]

Look at Sara Mittleider’s story. Her mother often posts on COTH as Tuppy’s Mom. Professional horse family out in Idaho who seem to focus on eventing. They mostly bought and made up OTTBs. Sara made her horse Tony (Le Primero) and first rode at Rolex as an 18 yo. Finished. Finished at least two more times before she reached the age of about twenty-two.

Then her parents (and maybe others) reached deep into their pockets and sent her to Germany with her new Trak event horse to be a working student for Dibo. I haven’t seen a blog or anything about her experiences there, but I gathered from Tuppy’s Mom’s posts that she evented in Poland and a few more places during her time over there. She’s now back, married, and has dropped off the face of the earth.

AFAIK, she has never received any serious financial help from the USEF. This is a person who should be part of the next generation that Gnep talks about. She’s the prime example of how people who don’t have the right connections and don’t ride in the right places get completely overlooked.

I haven’t heard anything about her since her return, so have no idea if she has up and coming horses that could be Team material. I do know that her family has gone over to Traks and has a stallion that has been approved for breeding.

If the PTB had any sense, they would have been supporting her from the first time she finished Rolex as an 18 yo.

[Jealoushe]

Backstage - super interesting!

I can see how that makes total sense. When I first got back into eventing after 5 years hiatus going entry was a challenge. Now 3 years later entry is a breeze and Training is the challenge.

So even competing at the 1*/2* level consistently, is not going to give you the same skill as competing 3*/4* consistently.

I for one, volunteer to go work for Micheal Jung and report back on my findings

[omare]

http://www.mittleidereventing.com/mitt/index.php/horses/competition-horses
I think Sara Mittleider is just between big horses–one promising youngster had surgery and the other proven horse is 20 but she has some great younger horses coming up and I think some good owners.

[PhoenixFarm]

[QUOTE=Gnep;7747227]
They are working their buts of in US to make a living, they do triple overtime.

There is a difference between tryin to make a living and being a world champion.

The business model that is current in the US does not work.
People are asking for eventing stables and coaches, so the pros are pushed into a corner. They go from one event to a nother, do nothing else.
Eventing has become single minded in the US and is inbreeding.
In Europe eventers do everything, jumping, dressage and sometimes eventing[/QUOTE]
Um, this is pretty much what I said that you vehemently disagreed with?

[DLee]

Really good interview with Buck from ProRiders.

“People that know don’t talk, people that talk don’t know.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_pky8Wgm6g#t=154

Also a good interview with KOC about just how bad the footing was, especially the untreated ground after they changed the course.

[fooler]

[QUOTE=DLee;7747586]
Really good interview with Buck from ProRiders.

“People that know don’t talk, people that talk don’t know.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_pky8Wgm6g#t=154

Also a good interview with KOC about just how bad the footing was, especially the untreated ground after they changed the course.[/QUOTE]

BUT - why did the bad footing affect the US riders/horses more than the others? One of my theories is we in the US have been so focused on “good footing” that we have forgotten/never learned how to deal with poor footing. Haven’t listened to KOC’s full statement, however all competitors had to deal with the footing. One of the coach’s duties is to advise everyone how to adjust to the current conditions. Yup - one that doesn’t know and is talking.

[Jealoushe]

Can someone elaborate on what he says, Im at work with no speakers…

[frugalannie]

This is a terrific discussion with many insightful posts. And it’s great having Gnep back to reality check us all.

Backstage, your research and analysis is extremely thoughtful.

All part of the reason I love this forum.

[vineyridge]

One comparison that just occurred to me:
Many people who do know say that US business is too focused on the short term and their stock prices.

Maybe the same mindset of looking for short term results to the detriment of research and development affects horse sport as well.

[fordtraktor]

He basically says the team feels on an upward trajectory, that the camaraderie and team spirit is good and positive even though they didn’t get the results they wanted obviously, they are keeping an optimistic view for the future, that his horse was great, and that he felt his horse was as good as he has ever been. It was bad luck he had to go first, others going after him told him they changed their ride after watching him go, but that’s sport. The horse felt great and went neither right nor left all day out there so he was really proud of him, and he felt that if he had gone 10th he might have had a different outcome, but so it goes sometimes. Live and learn. all in all USEventing is in a good place moving forward, and even though they didn’t get the results they wanted they can only blame themselves as riders and go home and work harder. He praised the coaching from DOC and the team supporting each other.

(all of this paraphrased, but this was the gist of it.)

Very nice interview.

[OverandOnward]

@Backstage;7746726

In my view, the problem isn’t quality of horse or even, strictly speaking, quality of rider…its the relatively few number of miles that the average US rider gets at the top levels. Basically, its a quantity of quality horses issue. Which, of course, isn’t surprising given the expense of keeping a horse at that level.

Didn’t quote the entire post, but 100% everything you said. This IS the core of everything. It isn’t one-off trips to Europe. It’s going around these courses, and around, and around. Not once in a blue moon, but 2 or 3 times per course, on different horses,every few weeks.

The numbers of entries mean there are a LOT of horses going at that level in Europe! Does nature deliver 3*/4* horses among the raindrops, every time it rains in Europe? No. The riders develop them in quantities sufficient to fill up the entry lists - just as they will in the US when they have more than one 4* course per year to ride.

Bottom line, every activity all of the time … no one excels at something they do one (1) time per year (Rolex KY). Or twice, or three times per year. I don’t care what the rider/horse’s name is. Everyone can’t fly back and forth to Europe every few weeks.

Until the infrastructure is HERE, in THIS COUNTRY … how to put the US team consistently in the international medals is a pointless discussion. That’s just stats and science, not an opinion.

No wonder the endless frustration and hair-tearing of those who keep charging up the hill of Sisyphus as if each time were the first time …

[Jealoushe]

Thanks fordtracker.

Maybe a another 4* in the US and one in Canada is needed… crowd funding? lol

[Blugal]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;7747789]
Thanks fordtracker.

Maybe a another 4* in the US and one in Canada is needed… crowd funding? lol[/QUOTE]

I wonder what it does take to put on a 4*?

-a certain level of prize money
-not clashing with other FEI dates / permission from FEI
-higher level officials? (than a 3*?)
-longer track/more jumping efforts than a 3*

Could this be done at an existing 3* site - such as Bromont, that holds a spring 3* but no fall event? Or can/should it be combined with a 3* such as Fair Hill or Galway, such that duplicate officials aren’t needed? And riders could bring a 3 and 4 star horse and not be doing extra travel etc.? There must be a good reason that no other events combine 3 and 4 stars… although at one point, Rolex did. And maybe Adelaide?

[FalseImpression]

Well, I guess Bromont will have to plan for one, right? so maybe they will move up from the 3* and offer a 4* before and after WEG 2018?

Can’t wait to see update on the progress on the venue building/upgrading… planning on attending in 2018.

[JER]

[QUOTE=Gnep;7747227]
They are working their buts of in US to make a living, they do triple overtime.

There is a difference between tryin to make a living and being a world champion.[/QUOTE]

This is the point I’m making.

The US riders may be working hard at something, but it’s not at being a top international event rider.

That’s the choice you make. If ‘making a living’ or material comfort is your imperative, then becoming a world-beater isn’t your priority.

There are a number of established eventing businesses in the UK and Europe which don’t differ so much from the standard US model. Riders like the Paul Tapner, the Kyles, the Fredericks (former) have built successful training and teaching businesses with clients and working students and young horses – and they’ve been able to ride at top level, quite successfully. (Glenbaer was at Sandra Auffarth’s this week, which sounded similar.) However, international success came when these riders were well into their 30s.

[Equibrit]

Look at the BE Calendar; there’s so much more available, at all levels, and within an area that would fit in to the state of Georgia;
http://www.britisheventing.com//asp-net/events/Fixture.aspx?month=0&class=*&location=1&status=NotSet&map=0&orderBy=date

You can’t fail to get experienced horses and riders.
The whole thing has plenty of participants, and funding.

[vineyridge]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;7748209]
Look at the BE Calendar; there’s so much more available, at all levels, and within an area that would fit in to the state of Georgia;
http://www.britisheventing.com//asp-net/events/Fixture.aspx?month=0&class=*&location=1&status=NotSet&map=0&orderBy=date

You can’t fail to get experienced horses and riders.
The whole thing has plenty of participants, and funding.[/QUOTE]

There is another huge difference between the US and GB, IMO. In GB, traditionally the eventers have disproportionately come from the aristocrats and the foxhunting class. We’re talking here about the traditional governing class and their children. Old Money. I read the names of the competitors at Burghley and connect them with the uppermost of the upper class. That’s why people like Ollie Townend and the gypsy girl get so much press BECAUSE of their class. You don’t find the aristocrats in the British International show jumpers to the same extent.

The British upper class is very limited in what is appropriate for them to do, and race horses and eventing are acceptable.

Here, many of people in the US upper class who are interested in horses focus on show hunters and jumpers. Eventing just doesn’t get the uber rich or the traditional upper class. There may be a few exceptions, but they are exceptions. Yes, the kids may come from rich families, but they tend not to stay in eventing past 21. The people who make eventing their lives here do have to make a living somehow.

Now I will admit that my opinion is based on the Britain that I knew 40 years ago and much might have changed.

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7748341]

The British upper class is very limited in what is appropriate for them to do, and race horses and eventing are acceptable.

Now I will admit that my opinion is based on the Britain that I knew 40 years ago and much might have changed.[/QUOTE]

:lol::lol::lol:

Oh dear Viney, are you reading Jilly Cooper or Jane Austin again??? Whilst it is true that there are some wealthy eventers, I can assure you that that is the minority. There are far more “Olivers” then you think.

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=Blugal;7747883]
…
-not clashing with other FEI dates / permission from FEI
…[/QUOTE]

Maybe the only thing the US doesn’t have to worry about is conflicting with European dates. They don’t conflict, because of the distance. It would be like trying to schedule California and Virginia not to overlap …

The entire premise of having 4*'s in this country is that US riders won’t need to go to Europe - because of the distance. It would be wonderful if European riders would come here, on occasion, but the plan would assume that this is not a factor.

This country is several times the population of the European active eventing nations. Far more open land. There are plenty of riders and horses who will, in time, begin to rise to the level of expectations. That’s what riders did in Europe - they will do it here, as well. No need to worry about overlapping dates.

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7748341]
There is another huge difference between the US and GB, IMO. In GB, traditionally the eventers have disproportionately come from the aristocrats and the foxhunting class. We’re talking here about the traditional governing class and their children. Old Money. I read the names of the competitors at Burghley and connect them with the uppermost of the upper class. That’s why people like Ollie Townend and the gypsy girl get so much press BECAUSE of their class. You don’t find the aristocrats in the British International show jumpers to the same extent.

The British upper class is very limited in what is appropriate for them to do, and race horses and eventing are acceptable.

Here, many of people in the US upper class who are interested in horses focus on show hunters and jumpers. Eventing just doesn’t get the uber rich or the traditional upper class. There may be a few exceptions, but they are exceptions. Yes, the kids may come from rich families, but they tend not to stay in eventing past 21. The people who make eventing their lives here do have to make a living somehow.

Now I will admit that my opinion is based on the Britain that I knew 40 years ago and much might have changed.[/QUOTE]

You have some very funny ideas Viney. Hahahahahahaha.