[QUOTE=mp;5007672]
Why wouldn’t a veterinary journal publish a valid study on the effectiveness of homeopathy?[/QUOTE]
Why would they?
[QUOTE=Pancakes;5007667]
Not always.
If anyone bothered to read the beginning of the article, it actually explains sort of well what the etiology of “Cushing’s” in dogs/horses is.
Cushing’s is actually a HUMAN disease.
In dogs, hyperadrenocorticism is similar to human Cushing’s, but it is not the same. Dogs either have a pituitary gland tumor which overproduces ACTH, or they have an adrenal tumor that just puts out too much glucocorticoid hormone.
Horses have an altogether different etiology. They have PPID, pituitary pars intermedia dysfunction. That is not always the same kind of pituitary (brain) tumor that dogs get. It causes the same end result (hyperadrenocorticism) that is the “Cushing’s” we know in horses. But it’s not the same.
So then, how does treating both horses AND dogs with ACTH make sense then? It doesn’t. That’s why it was explored in that article 9 years ago and we haven’t heard from it since.
We have drugs that work in dogs (trilostane, lysodren). They work. Surgery works. Radiation therapy works (for brain tumors). No, nothing’s perfect, but they are vastly more effective than these homeopathic remedies described.
I have much to learn about the place of homeopathy in veterinary medicine, but if there are specific drugs out there to treat specific diseases and are proven effective, then why not use them? Why prolong your animal’s condition and suffering for the sake of your ideals?[/QUOTE]
Since homeopathic treatments do not depend on etiologies of diseases but rather symptoms there is no reason for you to be so preoccupied with them.
I have spent countless hours trying to find out more about ‘Cushings’ in horses (and they do call it that) and everything I have ever been able to find states it is an overproduction of ACTH due to a malfunction of the pituitary gland.
[QUOTE=Androcles;5007842]
Why would they?[/QUOTE]
The purpose of professional journals is to disseminate useful information to members of that profession, is it not? If a valid peer-reviewed study on a new treatment for Cushings existed, I would think a veterinary journal would publish it, no matter what the treatment was.
[QUOTE=mp;5007858]
The purpose of professional journals is to disseminate useful information to members of that profession, is it not? If a valid peer-reviewed study on a new treatment for Cushings existed, I would think a veterinary journal would publish it, no matter what the treatment was.[/QUOTE]
It’s not a veterinary treatment.
[QUOTE=Androcles;5007903]
It’s not a veterinary treatment.[/QUOTE]
It is if it’s used on dogs and horses.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;5007780]
Are you referring to pharmacologic or homeopathic doses of ACTH?
Because equine Cushing’s is characterized by overproduction of ACTH, and I, for one, wouldn’t be using measurable quantities as therapy.[/QUOTE]
I shouldn’t post before I’ve had coffee- total brain fart, I was thinking underproduction was cause. Thanks for the correction.
[QUOTE=Androcles;5007856]
Since homeopathic treatments do not depend on etiologies of diseases but rather symptoms there is no reason for you to be so preoccupied with them.
I have spent countless hours trying to find out more about ‘Cushings’ in horses (and they do call it that) and everything I have ever been able to find states it is an overproduction of ACTH due to a malfunction of the pituitary gland.[/QUOTE]
I’m preoccupied with etiology because it’s unacceptable to treat known diseases symptomatically rather than fix the underlying cause. I’m sure you’d love it if your doctor ignored whatever underlying disease you might have and just tried to treat your symptoms. Sore throat? Here, take this. Snotty nose? Take this. Thirsty all the time? Tired? Take this. Nevermind that you may have a REAL condition with a proven cure…just treat symptomatically. [/sarcasm]
See why the etiology matters?
It’s called “Cushing’s” in horses but it’s incorrect…technically speaking. It’s the common name, yes, but that’s not the scientific name of the condition.
The question still remains…why treat ACTH overproduction with even MORE ACTH?
[QUOTE=mp;5007728]
Since Androcles isn’t answering and you’re a vet, would you be surprised to find a valid study on the effectiveness of homeopathics in a veterinary journal?
Just wondering …
PS – thanks for the insightful posts.[/QUOTE]
I would be happy to read it if it was published in a well-known, peer-reviewed veterinary journal! Surprised…maybe. It’s hard to get good publish-worthy data regardless of what drug or treatment you’re trying to test.
I’d also like to make clear that I’m not against homeopathy – in fact, I have a coworker whom I can’t wait to spend some time with and learn from who specializes in alternative therapies.
A crappy study is a crappy study, regardless! 
Edit: Found one! Though the Veterinary Journal isn’t one of the best-known, peer-reviewed ones out there…
The Veterinary Journal
Volume 177, Issue 1, July 2008, Pages 80-88
A double-blind placebo-controlled study into the efficacy of a homeopathic remedy for fear of firework noises in the dog (Canis familiaris)
Nina R. Cracknella and Daniel S. Mills.
Animal Behaviour, Cognition and Welfare Group, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Lincoln, Riseholme Park, Lincoln LN2 2LG, UK
Accepted 7 April 2007. Available online 14 June 2007.
Abstract
Seventy-five dogs that showed a fear response to fireworks participated in a double-blinded, placebo-controlled clinical trial to assess the efficacy of a homeopathic remedy for the alleviation of their behavioural signs. Dogs were randomly assigned to one of two treatments; the homeopathic treatment or the placebo treatment. At the baseline assessments the owners identified the behavioural signs of fear that their dogs normally displayed in response to fireworks, rated their frequency and intensity, and assessed the global severity of their dog’s responses. These measures were repeated at the final assessment and owners also completed weekly diaries for the length of the trial. There were significant improvements in the owners’ rating of 14/15 behavioural signs of fear in the placebo treatment group and all 15 behavioural signs in the homeopathic treatment group. Both treatment groups also showed significant improvement in the owners’ rating of the global severity of their dog’s responses. However, there was no significant difference in the response seen between the two treatment groups.
[QUOTE=Androcles;5007832]
You would probably have to understand homeopathy in order to understand that. (except that by giving a dose of 30c they are not treating it with more ACTH, as I said I believe that dose is for overactivity and if the OP knew something about homeopathy perhaps she could address it).[/QUOTE]
So wait…if you have a baseline amount, and you are giving ANY additional amount, how is that not adding more?
Hey, I’m not anti-alternative therapies either. My favorite vet does chiro, acupuncture and is going to China this fall to study herbal medicine for horses. He uses a combination of traditional and alternative approaches, which for my way of thinking is really the ideal – best of both worlds.
[QUOTE=Pancakes;5008018]
So wait…if you have a baseline amount, and you are giving ANY additional amount, how is that not adding more?[/QUOTE]
You forget that homeopathy is based on the essence of the molecule. Its quantum signature is imprinted on the water through M-theoretical spaces via the quarks that make up the protons and neutrons.
Or, if you are a fan of Futurama, it is like the Essence of Pure Taste. Pure water with a dash of LSD.
Reed
[QUOTE=Pancakes;5008012]
Edit: Found one! Though the Veterinary Journal isn’t one of the best-known, peer-reviewed ones out there…
The Veterinary Journal
Volume 177, Issue 1, July 2008, Pages 80-88
A double-blind placebo-controlled study into the efficacy of a homeopathic remedy for fear of firework noises in the dog (Canis familiaris)
Nina R. Cracknella and Daniel S. Mills.
Animal Behaviour, Cognition and Welfare Group, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Lincoln, Riseholme Park, Lincoln LN2 2LG, UK
Accepted 7 April 2007. Available online 14 June 2007.
Abstract
Seventy-five dogs that showed a fear response to fireworks participated in a double-blinded, placebo-controlled clinical trial to assess the efficacy of a homeopathic remedy for the alleviation of their behavioural signs. Dogs were randomly assigned to one of two treatments; the homeopathic treatment or the placebo treatment. At the baseline assessments the owners identified the behavioural signs of fear that their dogs normally displayed in response to fireworks, rated their frequency and intensity, and assessed the global severity of their dog’s responses. These measures were repeated at the final assessment and owners also completed weekly diaries for the length of the trial. There were significant improvements in the owners’ rating of 14/15 behavioural signs of fear in the placebo treatment group and all 15 behavioural signs in the homeopathic treatment group. Both treatment groups also showed significant improvement in the owners’ rating of the global severity of their dog’s responses. However, there was no significant difference in the response seen between the two treatment groups.[/QUOTE]
So can we safely say that the owners are ones with a problem and not the dogs? :lol: That applies in a lot of cases with horses – the nuttier the owner, the nuttier the horse.
Thanks for finding that.
Watcha think, Androcles?
[QUOTE=RAyers;5008033]
You forget that homeopathy is based on the essence of the molecule. Its quantum signature is imprinted on the water through M-theoretical spaces via the quarks that make up the protons and neutrons.
Or, if you are a fan of Futurama, it is like the Essence of Pure Taste. Pure water with a dash of LSD.
Reed[/QUOTE]
Don’t forget all the poo that has been in the water throughout time.
Caballus, how do you get the memory of the feces out? And all the diseases that have been in it? How do you get to “pure” water that has no memory or molecules of other substances?
re homeopathy
ghazzu, your comment seemed logical to me, but then isn’t homeopathy all about exposing the system to a preparation which results in the same symptomes? (honest question, not being difficult)
a friend recently hired a homeopath to treat her horse for lyme. horse was previously diagnosed by a vet, received treatment but according to friend still wasn’t right. homeopath proceeded with multiple injections of the bacteria whcih causes lyme (in a diluted form). friend swears it helped. seemed risky to me.
and one final note to folks. please don’t confuse homeopathy with herbal medicine. two very different things.
[QUOTE=Pancakes;5008018]
So wait…if you have a baseline amount, and you are giving ANY additional amount, how is that not adding more?[/QUOTE]
Read up on homeopathy. It’s not giving more.
[QUOTE=mp;5008045]
So can we safely say that the owners are ones with a problem and not the dogs? :lol: That applies in a lot of cases with horses – the nuttier the owner, the nuttier the horse.
Thanks for finding that.
Watcha think, Androcles?[/QUOTE]
About what (other than your spelling problem, that is) ?
[QUOTE=Pancakes;5008004]
I’m preoccupied with etiology because it’s unacceptable to treat known diseases symptomatically rather than fix the underlying cause. [/QUOTE] How do you know what is or isn’t acceptable in homeopathy?
I’m sure you’d love it if your doctor ignored whatever underlying disease you might have and just tried to treat your symptoms. Sore throat? Here, take this. Snotty nose? Take this. Thirsty all the time? Tired? Take this.
Actually that sounds like every single doctor I’ve ever encountered.
It’s called “Cushing’s” in horses but it’s incorrect…technically speaking. It’s the common name, yes, but that’s not the scientific name of the condition.
What it’s technically called doesn’t really matter in prescribing a treatment. Is it or isn’t it characterized by excess ACTH?
[QUOTE=Androcles;5008158]
About what (other than your spelling problem, that is) ?[/QUOTE]
I was referring to the fact that a valid study on homeopathics appeared in a veterinary journal.
But then you know that, or you wouldn’t have been grasping at straws about spelling a colloquialism.
Would you like a spoon to eat your words? Or do you need a fork and knife? :lol:
Oh, wait … I’m sure you’d much rather cling to the idea that “traditional” veterinary medicine is against homeopathy and alternative medicine because … I don’t know why you think that. Care to explain?
Yhat’s why I asked if the post was referring to pharmacologic or homepoathic amounts.
reed
priceless and concise as usual 
LOL! :lol:
