Yikes. That is even worse than before. Time to ask for your money back and find an independent saddle fitter. You’ve given Stubben more than enough time. The fitter appears to be incompetent.
Sorry, not what you want to hear. Good luck and let us know what you decide/find.
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I’ve used both Val Mcclosky and Kitt Hazelton in that area and they are both great! They’re on fb or pm me and I can give you their info!
Latest Update:sparkles:
After consulting with another body work/saddle fitter friend of mine, I went ahead and sent my ultimatum; new saddle or money back, no exceptions.
Took 3 days to get a response, but they did agree to build me an entirely new saddle with different panels (albeit lacking much of an apology for what i’ve gone through with the current one….but i digress)
I’m not going to let my guard down until the new one arrives and I have something that actually fits my horse 
I’m being VERY cautiously optimistic……
That being said, if the new saddle comes and there are the same issues as before and/or new issues, there will be no third try….
I’ve been given a 9 week timeline for the new saddle, so fingers and toes crossed it is night and day from what i have now…
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Are they starting from scratch with new tracings, or at least confirming that the data they have is correct for your horse?
Because that saddle looks like it was made for an entirely different animal.
Makes you wonder if there’s some other poor person out there struggling with what should be your saddle… switched at birth, so to speak.
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That is the odd thing….I offered to do a full set of tracings/send current conformation photos and they passed on it. They said tracings weren’t helpful b/c of the “spring tree”……
I’m in the boat that I offered to provide additional info and if they don’t want it and the new saddle comes and doesn’t fit the horse, I have more on my side to support a claim for a full refund. That being said, best case scenario, the new saddle works I’m trying to be cautiously optimistic 
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Who said this? The fitter or Stubben? Cause… yikes
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Was told the same thing by the Stubben “fitter” that I used. An expression that comes to mind about everyone who works for Stubben: they are high on their own farts 
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Omg 
But yes, Stubben told me this
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… all I can say is YIKES. And good luck
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It sounds like they’re depending on the (magical) spring tree to perform most of the work of fitting. It’s such a bizarre thing to say and it’s even more bizarre if they actually believe it.
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Get your money back NOW.
If they use the same tracings you will get a saddle that is basically the same as this one. They will claim you agreed to having the saddle built with the same tracings. You have no way to check the accuracy of those tracings against a new set - which should be done by an independent fitter. They will find a way to stick you with it and keep your money.
There are plenty of high quality custom saddles available from other makers. Find a Fitter. Find another brand. Dump Stubben, they are ripping you off.
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Is the new saddle going to use this same tree?
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I would 100% scrap this “new saddle” idea and get your money back ASAP. There’s no way this will turn out in your favor.
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I am unsure of this, all they said was that they are building a new one with entirely different panels 
They did not ever offer or ask to do tracings from the very beginning and unfortunately, it sounds like the production of the new saddle has already begun.
I have all written history of my dialogue with them, including asking and offering to provide tracings/new conformation photos to assist with the new saddle, which they clearly told me they did not need and it would not effect their ability to create a saddle that fits. With this in mind, I have fuel for a money back claim if the new saddle arrives and is clearly still an improper fit.
I fully intend on having an independent fitter inspect the new saddle when it arrives so I have an outside opinion on the overall fit so I can feel more confident in my final decision at the end of the day
Huh??? How could you possibly build a custom saddle without tracings? Get out of there. Today. They have no clue what panels to use because they have no clue as to your horse’s anatomy. Get off the custom Stubben wagon. Do not take delivery of the new saddle. You can do better elsewhere. Your horse has already experienced enough discomfort.
If you are using your credit card call them asap so Stubben cannot charge to your card. This is a scam.
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To clarify, stubben trees are meant to fit the horse in motion, not necessarily statically. Which means that a tracing of a horse standing still isn’t going to be what they want to fit the saddle to. Their spring tree has a lot of flex to it which means that it is imperative to address the fit with a rider in the saddle and the horse in motion. During a fitting, the fitter is supposed to find the right tree size for the horse, whether it needs long or short points, and if it needs any sort of custom paneling (such as a front or rear gusset).
I will make no judgement on the saddle you received, but I have been incredibly happy with my stubbens (there are 10+ in my barn now) and it is quite normal for an saddle to look a little funky before it is broken in because breaking it in not only adjusts the panels and wool but also adjusts the flex of the saddle tree itself. We have never used tracings for fit and have only needed one saddle to have the panels moved because (of all things) the gullet was too wide. Sent it to the office in VA and got it back within 2 weeks.
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Did you send the Stubben HQ pictures of the “refitted” saddle? Honestly that looks much worse then the original fit. I would have little faith that a different panel will make all the difference; it might but I’d sure have my doubts.
I agree with a previous poster that you get an anatomical girth.
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Well, tracings will tell you the bits about tree width and if long points or gussets are needed because you can actually measure centimeters on the tracing paper. Perhaps the profile tracing will be different static versus how the back is in motion. I’m not very confident that they have selected the right tree or tree size in the beginning here.
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This is from Saddlefitting.us on Facebook. She is a well educated and highly knowledgeable saddle fitter. Who happens to also be a Stubben rep. Tracings just aren’t a great way to fit saddles.
I’ve purchased 2 Stubbens in the past year (after buying Beval, CWD, Antares and Loxley saddles) and truly believe in their saddles and their fitters. I’m in Texas and have consulted Amanda on both saddles I’ve purchased (one custom and one used) as well as having my Stubben fitter work with my horses and me. I would encourage you to reach out to Amanda, she’s very active on Facebook and Instagram and is generous with her time and responses as believes in doing right by all horses.
Wither Tracings
Pictured are two wither tracings of:
— SAME HORSE
— Were taken on the SAME DAY (within 1 hour of each other)
— Standing in the SAME PLACE
— Measured on the SAME location (of the horse’s body)
— With the SAME posture (head neutral, standing square)
WHAT CHANGED?
The TOP tracing is how the horse looked PRE-WORKOUT. The horse had been standing in a stall for 5 hours.
!The BOTTOM tracing is how the horse looked POST-WORKOUT. The horse went on a 20 minute hack to warm up, then jumped for 30 minutes in a lesson.
One question I get occasionally is why I don’t use back tracings as measurements for building a saddle or to give to the client as what their horse looked like at the time of their appointment.
MY ANSWER: Tracings are taken when the horse is standing still in the crossties, and usually at the beginning of the appointment when the horse has not been moving around.
As you can see in the two tracings pictured, the horse “at rest” is very different from the horse “at work”.
If “riding” only consisted of the horse standing in the crossties, I would say that tracings would be an excellent to use for fitting the saddle. But that’s not how we ride…
DO YOU THINK IF I BUILT SADDLE FOR THIS HORSE BASED ON HIS “PRE-WORKOUT” TRACING THAT IT WOULD FIT?
There are several factors that come into play that static tracings cannot show us: The horse in motion, the rider’s weight, how the horse uses himself, how the saddle interacts with the horse and rider, etc.
Tracings can be used as a potential “baseline” for how the horse looked during the Fitter’s visit when other options (like photography, imaging, etc.) are not available. HOWEVER, in order for them to be ACCURATE AND COMPARABLE, the tracings must be taken with all variables the same.
WHAT ARE VARIABLES? Time of day, pre-or post work, the levelness of the ground where they stand, head position, posture, hot or cold weather, standing square, different/corrective shoeing are all things that need to be the same.
NEXT UP IN THIS SERIES: How tracings can be falsely manipulated to show that a horse has a “loss of topline” or a “gain of topline”.
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OP posted a photo of the horse without the saddle after a 20-minute ride in post #4. The horse has prominent withers and noticable curve along the topline. Looking at OP’s original photos with the saddle, there is no way you can discern the amount of curve along the topline. It also looks like the panels are sitting on the shoulder blade. There is no room for the shoulder blade to move around while the horse is moving - the rider is sitting on it.
PIcture the same saddle on a mutton-withered QH: no withers, and a straight back along the topline with a gradual slope towards its rear; and lacking shoulder definition. You can’t tell what is under there until you remove the saddle.
OP has enough experience riding her horse that she can see and feel problems.
OP is listening to her horse. He is not happy. She can feel problems with his movement. She can see suspicious changes in the sweat pattern. Continuing to ride him in this saddle is abusive.
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