Interesting… My trainer and I are best friends, and have been for a long time. Yet, I go out of my way to make sure I pay equally with everyone else. And I try (although not succesfully all the time) to make it though I am equal with all the other riders. I do it b/c I would never want my trainer to think I am taking advantage of our friendship. A true friend wouldn’t ask for discounts, they would gladly pay full price to help out their business.
What Robby said rings very true. . . .
Well said.
Awe Ryan! You are so sweet!
I am sorry guys how hard it is to read my posts.
My keyboard doesn’t always work, and it skips certain keys etc!
I knew there was a reason that I liked you. 
I’m the only eventer at my barn which is made up of a wide variety of western, dressage, and trail riders. I like it that way. I get to do my own thing. It’s also a co-op, which has its own drawbacks, but at the same time, I get to do a lot of my own horse management. I’ve learned a TON in the past couple years and wouldn’t be happy if I were at a place where I wasn’t given the respect as an owner to have a say in some of the details of my horse’s life. At least sit down and have a conversation and pretend to be interested in my point of view.
Anyway, good luck with the clients and your business. Take a look at the options that Robby mentioned… they’re very good ideas.
Good Advice Karin, BTW, email me, I have something you will be interested in!
As far as getting it all done? I am up at 5:30 to feed and turnout. Whenever the turnout changes, I groom as they come in, and put the next set out.
I feel it saves time. They get their feet picked by me and bellboots and turnouts put on before going out. They come in, the next set goes out and then I groom who is in. The babies I work with at night, there is something about night
that is wonderful for a foal, they are so easy to do everything with! (so, i do babies around 11 pm at last hay and water check). The training is usually done from 3-8 p.m. OK, so I am a fool, I do 16 hour days, but I also hold a part time permanent job as a consultant 20 miles from here). I take breaks (as you can tell in between)
doing work. My husband when I am pressed to get it all done, does the feeding, and he also helps with the manure disposal and grooming at night.
Now, you know why I want to grow the farm so to speak so I can hire someone fulltime and leave my time to the training and care of the horses.
I could never survive without cleaning a stall or 2 though, it is good for the mind.
I think everyone who knows you knows that you do not run your business in any nefarious way. The poster has probably never had experieence in this kind of service business down here in the trenches.
We do know that frequently employees think they are under paid and over worked but that is systemic. People on the outside think that everything that comes in is profit and do not begin to understand the risk of venture capital and the excessive time we spend that is never compensated.
But I do concede that there is some validation for the fact that no doubt this mother has the wrong view of the situation and may be mis-interpreting the value of her son’s services as compared to what he learns. It is difficult for anyone from the real world to comprehend that we do not earn $20 an hour for everything we do.
We had a similar situation one day at a horse show. I had offered to train young people to be jump crew and then if qualified they could move up to being a Ring Starter. This useless little boy volunteered and really had never been taught a work ethic. The show was a big one and he had to stay until about 8 PM. His mother ranted and raved about the fee of $25.00 for a whole days work being jump crew. He has been there 10 hours and that was only $2.50 an hour, she was going to report me to child labor.
I reminded her he had volunteered and that if he felt it was too much work for too long he was welcome not to return. He hadn’t even learned anything yet and didn’t have a clue what a jump crew was responsible to do. He also ate about $25.00 worth of snacks and food.
We are not the parents of these children and as much as we may feel sorry for them, it is out of our territory. If I have a junior now who wants to learn we charge them a nominal fee so that they are a student.
But, cheer up you probably have discovered through that post how devious and manipulative the management at some barns really are to their clients and can sleep well knowing you are not one of those.
You guys give great advice!!!
I also run a show/boarder barn and have alot of situations thrown at me 
I find the ones I try to help the most by letting them ride my horses and ponies, Giving free lessons to, lending all my equiptment to ect ect…
Are the ones who cause me the most problems. They will always without fail start taking my helpfullness for granted.
Why is that?? I try to be nice and I get stabed in the back every time!! I don’t want to be a hard a$$ but don’t know what else to do???
Can you please pass on some of that good advice my way 
Thanks
EXACTLY!
Sounds like a major pain! I think there is one in every barn, though…
Having been brought up training with “A show” barns, I learned a great deal of discipline. I think it has contributed to my riding skills.
Discipline is very very important to me with my horses - riding, showing, training, etc.
I learned from a very early age to say “Yes, Maam” even if I didn’t know what I was saying Yes to. May sound silly to some, but if you’re paying big $$ to a trainer, you SHOULD have 110%+ faith in THEM… I am very proud of my 20+ year training relationship with a top VA A show trainer. It works for me because of respect and discipline.
There are some people that never understand this. They want to control things themselves, even though they are paying the PROFESSIONAL to advise them. I don’t know what to tell you…but I wouldn’t waste my time with this one…
You seem to be a very knowledgeable, kind and considerate trainer, Jane…you have advised me on numerous occasions in a highly professional manner - based on your years of experience. For that I am thankful.
Not sure if this makes any sense or not, but wanted to show my support to you, for what it’s worth.
BTW - yearling is doing much better…am still scared to death that she won’t be 100% when it’s time to ride…but am keeping my faith – no shoes and we’re looking very sound! Thanks!
It sounds like the typical, you get what you pay for attitude on Mom’s part. Some people cannot have respect for a program if they do not pay for it. I realize these people have indicated they could not pay full fare. However, they are certainly not grasping the “benefit” of your cooperation. Nor will they ever.
It also rings true of the old saying,“It is difficult to do business with family and friends.” I think this is the hardest line to keep deeply drawn in the dirt!!! We deal with a “pastime” for most people. Although they take it seriously, don’t get me wrong. But all too often it is not kept in the confines of running a TRUE BUSINESS. Before you know it people are taking advantage of each other, in the name of “friendship”.
I don’t see yourself in a winning position with these folks. Better to cut your losses, save the potential bad mouthing from the Mom, and not be the appointed individual to take this “child” to stardom at your expense.
One of the things that may be most helpful to both Mother & son could be an object lesson. Mom seems to think that you are very lucky to have the opportunity to train her talented child. She also sounds like a bully. Maybe you just need to explain to her as calmly & clearly as you can, that if her gifted child were unable for whatever reason to continue as your student, your life would go on pretty much unchanged. Where would they be without you? They might find it difficult to locate a 2nd trainer willing to give them such a sweetheart deal. Let them look into. Nothing is good or bad until it’s compared to something else. They need to compare what you give them and do for them to what anyone else is offering.
Jane do you mind if I email you?
I am having some major problems at my barn right now and don’t feel comfortable posting here for advice.
Thanks Sandra
I am sensitive. I try my best to be my best to all my customers. Including the horses. I do things for free way too often, and many favors.
But, my clients are wonderful, I have no complaints. I go beyond what the training board covers. UGH. You know, many times I have been at one of your bigger shows, and been there with other trainers riders, than my own, and gone 16 hours, and never asked for them to get me food or drink, or charged them extra for the long day.
Ok, here goes my input. When does that fine line get crossed when your client decides that they are more your “friend” than your client? Why do people think they no longer should have to pay for services and/or your time if they are your friend? I like to be friendly with my boarders, students, and anyone else who comes to my barn (for all that matters), But, I am also there to make a living. Sure , I can do favors(once in a while) But, it seems like I am doing constant favors, and the favors are expected. I do have price lists, but it seems that there is imaginary friendship lines that people cross and they feel that since they now are your"friend" Friends do Friends favors. Am I making any sense? Anyone else having this problem?
I agree with woodbern…“no good deed goes unpunished”. This is a very hard business…Geoff Teal has an article in the new Practical horseman that is pretty accurate…no money in board, try to make it up on shows, horses being shown to death…customers don’t realize how hard it is in this business to make a buck the honest way…Maybe that’s why we see 100 percent “commisions” and other shadey stuff. 
Someone find his/her email address now and email this thread to them anonymously…
Just joking, Jane!
BTW, I thought it was a great idea of yours to show them COTH so they could see the reality of pricing. Ugh, do I hate it when people who haven’t a clue about an industry jump in and make $$$ judgements anyway! Is that how they’d go about buying a house or car or any other investment? Of course not. Aaargh!
Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
For more info, email: sportponies@horsecity.com
Shameless signature plugplugplug.
Yes, you can feel sorry for the boy, but if he really cared he would be there. If he really wants to learn he would be there!
Unfortunately, there are a lot of very nice worthy kids who would be grateful for the opportunity you have given him. None of us get to pick our parents, and you need to explain to him that he is not getting the full value of his apprenticeship and that’s too bad but it just isn’t working so you will have to put them back on regular board and give the opportunity to someone who will be able to learn what you have to teach.
Remember you are giving away your net profit on them in addition to the fact that he is not delivering a service you need. You can’t be the agent between him and his Mom.
My old painting teacher taught me a great deal and one was that “if you give it away for nothing” that’s what it’s worth.
An offer of an apprenticeship is a valuable commodity. If that person were to go to a college and major in equine studies they might pay as much $25,000 for the year and not learn as much useful information. If you offer an apprenticeship you would be entitled to be paid for your time and knowledge which you are willing to share.
Learning to rub down and wrap, load and unload are skills they have to learn. The idea that you should pay someone for you to teach them is laughable.
[This message was edited by Snowbird on Dec. 23, 2000 at 04:52 PM.]
I have done exactly that. I suggested they call around and get quotes on training board in other AHSA barns in the area. Afterward, check out the farm, the trainers, and see if they in fact feel better afterward. Again, the child is fine. SO is the family. Yesterday, she smiled, that was a first in a long time. They were lucky i was able to sell their hot too small lame horse to a “A” barn as a lesson horse when they came here. There trainer somehow thought it would be his step up horse, although, there was NO WAY it could have been. I have also told them they are free to stay, or leave, without hard feelings, it is how I choose to operate my business. I have hired a consultant to prepare brochures and rewrite my barn rules and our mission statement. This will go out in the mail sometime in January.
Hopefully, it will help. let me explain, I do not have a “NAME” amongst clients that I know of.
Just amongst other trainers and professionals who I do business with across the country. I do not show up at a show with 10 people. I can however be spotted with Pennsy trainers clients with me and others as I am well thought of in teh professional ranks to get the job done. When I expand my farm further and advertise more, I have to know that the working student has a place in my operation.
Sure, you are welcome too email me. I think that the others may be better at helping you than I am though, but I will give it a shot!
The difference between the farrier and the boy is simple: the farrier is a contractor, the boy is an employee. At a job, one gets paid weekly or every two weeks. So, one works for two weeks before seeing money. No one gets paid every day. A contractor is paid at the time of service. I can’t go get my hair cut and say I’ll pay her on a two week schedule. I pay at the time the service is rendered.
There are a lot of people trying to do things an a shoestring and they want to barter, etc. It always seems to me that, no matter what the situation, both people feel they got the bad end of the deal.
For example…An owner wants to work off some of her professional fees by grooming for the professional at the show. The professional rides the horse in two divisions. Eight classes is 320 dollars in riding fees. He hacks the horse for free. The owner has worked her behind off for two days, and compares that to the couple of hours the pro spent with her horse. She thinks he got the better of the deal. The pro pays the grooms 100 bucks a day. He thinks he got screwed out of 120 bucks… Since the owner also did care on her own horse, she wasn’t available to the pro for the full day… End of the day? Nobody’s happy…
