David O'Connor responds to Catherine Haddad's Article

[QUOTE=magdelene;3006457]
:wink:
And I still think that if you want to compete you have to abide by the rules, whether they suck or not for you.

Mrs. Haddad abide by the rules in 2006-Aachen- but did not ride for her team because Leslie Morse had not accepted Haddad to beat her. We were in Verden (your “Selections”) and saw this. Who changed the rules when the incorrect rider makes the team?[/QUOTE]

You mean like when Dover keeps making the team and he hasn’t always earned it?? :lol:

It starts with the rules, then it gets into exceptions to the rules (aka loopholes), and politics. If you don’t like it, get out of dressage. Besides, it’s like that in business, politics, etc. You can’t avoid it. If you don’t want to get dirty, stay out of the mud.

That sounds very harsh, but that’s the reality. It seems the Olympics these days has almost nothing to do with admirably ethics anyway. So who cares? What does it buy you? Why pin all your hopes on them? I think all of the kids in the world who ever dreamed of them and never had a hope of making them can now (in hindsight) see that they really aren’t worth much, other than an ego stroking and a 15 minutes of fame–unless you can get the gold. And we all know that no one in this country, no matter how good, can ever win the gold in Olympic dressage. Talk about politics! :yes:

DO’C responds to CH’s article

After reading the opinions of many of you on the topic of Olympic qualification I felt compelled to add a few thoughts of my own:

All this business regarding scores from Europe vs US or even California vs Florida, etc., etc., these scores are invalid comparisons from a statistical perspective and therefore, in my opinion, a poor choice to use in determining the best pairs to represent a nation at the Olympics or any other championship. Parameters change between shows, such as the judges and conditions under which the pair show (e.g. footing, weather, bit checking and health exams, stabling, travel). If statistics are to be used as criteria for selection then an investment should be made in hiring someone that understands the nuances of determining a valid test, not someone that only knows how to push a button and read the top or highest average score that pops up on the computer screen.

The response from USEF was typical of an agency or administration that has numerous lawyers and at least one individual trained in conflict resolution. Always marginalize the individual or individuals causing the problem (i.e. speaks out publicly regarding fairness or some such silly thing). In this case CH, the goal is to make it appear that all the rules were followed explicitly by the agency and infer that the “trouble-maker’s concerns” were taken into consideration by “all” committee members. Her (CH) public response, as someone on this board noted

is one of sour grapes. And, as noted by the subsequent discussion on this board to the USEF response to CH, they accomplished the primary goal and beyond. CH will carry the stigma of not only being labelled a troublemaker, but will be viewed as NOT being a team player. If it does not hurt CH now, it will later.

The general nature of the USEF response was also typical. The letter claimed that various committees had met to discuss the points that concerned CH in the current qualification system. It would have been more convincing to me had they taken the original letter of CH and addressed each point including summaries of the decision process from each committee. Even better, allow access to the minutes of each meeting that was convened in response to CH. And if their not taking minutes or believe the minutes are only appropriate to be read by someone on the “in”

well, then they have earned a negative response from those they represent.

Lastly, I commend CH for speaking out and causing a public discussion (and no doubt many private discussions) of the current USEF rules. Change that promotes fairness and a level playing field does not occur because we all agree. I hope CH remains strong.

However, I truly am saddened that DO’C lent his name to this response from USEF. But, then I was also disappointed at the response that claimed overwhelming support from USEF committees to the proposal that would require rider qualification scores at 3rd level at their recent meeting. But, as I’m sure many of us have witnessed, as the “Big Guy” you gotta do what’s best for the business.

I look forward to a future that will encourage open, civil dialog between members and committees on rules and issues of fairness without marginalization of any of the parties.

Ah yes, the time when Leslie was the drop score with a 64.250.

[QUOTE=Derid;3007358]
After reading the opinions of many of you on the topic of Olympic qualification I felt compelled to add a few thoughts of my own:

The response from USEF was typical of an agency or administration that has numerous lawyers and at least one individual trained in conflict resolution. Always marginalize the individual or individuals causing the problem (i.e. speaks out publicly regarding fairness or some such silly thing). In this case CH, the goal is to make it appear that all the rules were followed explicitly by the agency and infer that the “trouble-maker’s concerns” were taken into consideration by “all” committee members. Her (CH) public response, as someone on this board noted

is one of sour grapes. And, as noted by the subsequent discussion on this board to the USEF response to CH, they accomplished the primary goal and beyond. CH will carry the stigma of not only being labelled a troublemaker, but will be viewed as NOT being a team player. If it does not hurt CH now, it will later.

The general nature of the USEF response was also typical. The letter claimed that various committees had met to discuss the points that concerned CH in the current qualification system. It would have been more convincing to me had they taken the original letter of CH and addressed each point including summaries of the decision process from each committee. Even better, allow access to the minutes of each meeting that was convened in response to CH. And if their not taking minutes or believe the minutes are only appropriate to be read by someone on the “in”

well, then they have earned a negative response from those they represent.

Lastly, I commend CH for speaking out and causing a public discussion (and no doubt many private discussions) of the current USEF rules. Change that promotes fairness and a level playing field does not occur because we all agree. I hope CH remains strong.

However, I truly am saddened that DO’C lent his name to this response from USEF. But, then I was also disappointed at the response that claimed overwhelming support from USEF committees to the proposal that would require rider qualification scores at 3rd level at their recent meeting. But, as I’m sure many of us have witnessed, as the “Big Guy” you gotta do what’s best for the business.

I look forward to a future that will encourage open, civil dialog between members and committees on rules and issues of fairness without marginalization of any of the parties.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your comments. A few of my own
I appreciated David O’Conner clarify the USEF position. After reading his response, I am still left with lots of questions regarding the entire process.

What I did learn from his response was that this was not something that was taken public after the finalization of the procedures on September 27th, but was addressed privately beginning as early as June of 2007.

That there are individuals on the High Performance Committee that had a stake on how the selection trials played out, and no one representing the European based riders. The two committees “unanimously rejected Ms. Haddads recommendations” Again, both committees had riders with a stake in the trials which would benefit with more time to bring along horses not prevously considered.

He did not mention or address the idea of holding the trials on the East Coast or in Europe
that would certainly still allow all the riders to compete. They are quarantining in Europe anyway


I don’t recall Ms. Haddad recommending flying the horses from California to Hong Kong, although almost 2 paragraphs were taken up addressing that.

It might just be my opionion, but found the conclusions by O’Conner lacking.There were solutions where NO COMPETITOR would have had adverse circumstances, or the challenges would have been equal AND in the best interest of the sport.

As I’ve read all of this discussion, I’m reminded of a few years ago when the Australian eventing officials decided not to put Phillip Dutton on their WEG team as they decided to spend their money on the Australians who chose to stay in Australia to compete and support the local eventing industry.

oh my goodness – perhaps the USEF should fly every horse/rider in the top 20 in the standings over to Europe for trials there

CH response to O’Connor


http://internationaldressage.com/Haddad-s-view-on-the-recent-statement-of-the-USEF.html

It’s a persuasive response, and CH may well be “dead right.” The operative word being “dead.” :dead:

I applaud her courage and hope that her refusal to “go along to get along” will not hurt her in the long run as I fear it will. :sigh:

How can it hurt her? She has several international level horses, she lives where she competes against the best in the world
 She has several mounts and will continue to rise in the world rankings which is really what is more important
If the U.S. choses to ignore her even when she becomes more successful then that is their problem not hers
I applaud her for having the guts to not take the B.S
 Just 2 years ago hardly anyone in the U.S. knew who she was so if she continues to grow and become even more successful maybe she can ride for another country
She won’t be the first American to do it
Do the names Michelle and Katie ring a bell


Sometimes integrity is more important then playing the political games and I applaud Catherine


selection criteria were published in May 2007

from that point potential contenders make decisions/plans

anyone in Europe could ship over for the winter - have months for horses to recover - spend winter in FL or CA - do loads of clinics around the country - compete in trials - go to olympics

Sorry, you are mistaken

“selection criteria were published in May 2007”

Sorry, SGray, you are mistaken. I checked out the USEF website last week. Your Selection Criteria were first approved in mid-October 2007.

By that time, Haddad would have already declared for the Western European League for World Cup qualification. She was getting points in August and September. So leaving for the States this winter would negate her attempt to qualify for World Cup since once committed to the WEL, she wouldn’t be able to switch leagues.

I guess she could leave after the Finals though. Those are at the end of March.

http://www.dressagedaily.com/2008/dd_200802/dd_20080212-usef.html


Having received the recommendations of the Active Athletes, members of the High Performance Committee also considered all of these factors and in May 2007 made many of the details of these procedures and pre-Games logistics known to the athletes who would be impacted by their decisions


I’m sure that can be backed up

verification

SGray, It appears that the USEF may have more than a few things to verify. O’Connor’s response was full of carefully worded language that easily misleads. I don’t think he should accuse Haddad of “disservice”.

Look at the date for the Selection Criteria yourself.
http://www.usef.org/Contentpage2.aspx?id=dressage

And after you have done that you might want to check out Haddad’s response to this whole “ruckus” as she calls it. It is on her website: www.internationaldressage.com

A formidable lady.

And Meredith Michaels-Beerbaum, when faced with the same challenges re being on US teams, took her husband’s German nationality, became one of the top ranked showjumpers in the world. And absolutely had the last laugh. Not bad for a California girl. But very unfortunate for the US.

[QUOTE=AM;3007700]
As I’ve read all of this discussion, I’m reminded of a few years ago when the Australian eventing officials decided not to put Phillip Dutton on their WEG team as they decided to spend their money on the Australians who chose to stay in Australia to compete and support the local eventing industry.[/QUOTE]

Bingo! I think we have a winner!

As good as CH is, she has not been putting money into the USEF coffers all these many years. There are no doubt some at USEF who felt that the organization was under no obligation to make things easier for her and that its primary responsibility was to support those riders who have been contributing to the organization via competing in USEF competitions, bringing in students to compete in USEF competitions, and bringing in sponsors to help support USEF programs. That is the downside of living and training in Europe.

yes shadow – I am familiar with the high performance section of usef

the final criteria were published as soon as they were approved by the USOC at the end of September (and could not be published without USOC approval) but had been in development for many months before that - thus the “in May
 many of the details
 logistics
” quote

whereas Phillip Dutton became an American citizen

[QUOTE=Coreene;3008274]
And Meredith Michaels-Beerbaum, when faced with the same challenges re being on US teams, took her husband’s German nationality, became one of the top ranked showjumpers in the world. And absolutely had the last laugh. Not bad for a California girl. But very unfortunate for the US.[/QUOTE]

Good Point- let’s find Catherine a good german husband
LOL!!! Now here’s a plan that would definitely finish this subject.

I found her response extremely well written- well thought out and HONEST! She wrote it- not a lawyer.
In the end- although I do take Oakie’s comment about the quality of the weather serious- I feel the east coast would have been a more reasonable place to hold the selection trials- if the route of Aachen and quarantene in Europe is chosen. But that seems to be now water under the bridge anyways


from http://internationaldressage.com/Qualifications.html

“In 1993, after completing four years of basic training with Bodo Hangen in Michigan, Catherine Haddad moved from the USA to Germany to train and compete in dressage. On Hangen’s advice, she moved to Warendorf to continue her education with his former trainer, Willi Schultheis

Schultheis, a legendary influence in dressage both in Europe and the Americas, trained Haddad on a daily basis until his untimely death in 1995. Since that time, Haddad has successfully established her own training and competition stable in Vechta, Germany
” (bold mine)

[quote=shadowdancer;3008084
By that time, Haddad would have already declared for the Western European League for World Cup qualification. She was getting points in August and September. So leaving for the States this winter would negate her attempt to qualify for World Cup since once committed to the WEL, she wouldn’t be able to switch leagues.

I guess she could leave after the Finals though. Those are at the end of March.
[/quote]

so she chose World Cup over Olympic selections? I think that’s a reasonable thing for anyone to do