[QUOTE=SGray;3008351]
from http://internationaldressage.com/Qualifications.html
Since that time, Haddad has successfully established her own training and competition stable in Vechta, Germany[/B]…" (bold mine)[/QUOTE]
and your point is???
She has also been competing against the top riders in the WORLD…
Lisa Wilcox went over around the same time Catherine did for the very similar reasons.
goes to downyonder’s point
Ah yes, giving to USEF. Where you give them $35,000 or $50,000 or $100,000, get the tax deduction, and then get a training stipend from USEF for that exact amount so that you can go to Europe and train. 
Edited to say that as for Phillip Dutton, it absolutely made sense to take US citizenship. Same as it did for Meredith to take German.
[QUOTE=SGray;3008289]
yes shadow – I am familiar with the high performance section of usef
the final criteria were published as soon as they were approved by the USOC at the end of September (and could not be published without USOC approval) but had been in development for many months before that - thus the “in May… many of the details… logistics…” quote[/QUOTE]
are you on the high performance committee?
Is so, perhaps you could answer why conflicting memos were sent out in Oct and then in December regarding dropped scores. If I have interpreted the memos correctly, the ability to “drop” scores was added after several US riders went to compete in Europe and did not do as well as expected…
no
[QUOTE=DownYonder;3008284]
Bingo! I think we have a winner!
As good as CH is, she has not been putting money into the USEF coffers all these many years. There are no doubt some at USEF who felt that the organization was under no obligation to make things easier for her and that its primary responsibility was to support those riders who have been contributing to the organization via competing in USEF competitions, bringing in students to compete in USEF competitions, and bringing in sponsors to help support USEF programs. That is the downside of living and training in Europe.[/QUOTE]
Why was this not a problem for Lisa? I also can’t understand the conclusion that addressing the concerns would be unfair to the majority of athletes and compromising the welfare of team horses. Back to the east coast thing…hard not to keep going back there…
[QUOTE=SGray;3008680]
no[/QUOTE]
Can you explain the conflicting memos?? thanks
[QUOTE=petitefilly;3002613]
The only thing I can comment on is even it Haddad has sour grapes as some of you note, it is a shame. Seriously, do you want the best to ride for your country? Has she been getting the scores in Europe? Is she the one of the top four without even having a Selection Trial? If she is (I do not have stats here one way or the other), then she might in deed deserve a bit of special treatment.
Playing by the rules makes some people feel so superior, when in reality, the rules suck.
JMHO[/QUOTE]
I have the 1/28/08 USEF National Grand Prix Dressage & Selection trial ranking list…not sure if it has been updated since then. Here was the top 10
Ranking
GP rankings list
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/dressage/GPRankinglist2008.pdf
was updated 2/12/08
and includes the latest qualifying show which was the Gold Coast Opener on Jan 25-27
next qualifiers both at end of Feb/beginning March are Palm Beach Derby and the Mid Winter Dressage Fair
[QUOTE=Coreene;3008274]
And Meredith Michaels-Beerbaum, when faced with the same challenges re being on US teams, took her husband’s German nationality, became one of the top ranked showjumpers in the world. And absolutely had the last laugh. Not bad for a California girl. But very unfortunate for the US.[/QUOTE]
Yes, well, it may very well work out that CH has an easier go of it following Germany’s rules, if/when she wants to qualify for their team…
Ok for all of you that keep saying Catherine suck it up and follow the rules…Well she did for WEG and and look at how that turned out…Below are the results of the shows the U.S. Riders had to compete at for the last spot on the team since Debbie was given an automatic spot. So those on this thread and others that say Catherine is whining in her letter GIVE ME A BREAK…I wonder what some of those other U.S. riders would have done if they were Catherine in this situation…LOL maybe that is why CH didn’t make the team…hmmm
Grand Prix
Grand Prix Special
Isabell Werth - Satchmo - 73.960 %
2. Catherine Haddad - Maximus JSS - 69.960 %
Jonny Hilberath - Fariano - 67.800 %
Hubertus Schmidt - Private Dancer - 67.600 %
5. Leslie Morse - Tip Top - 66.800 %
Cesar Parra - Galant du Serein - 65.800 %
Gina Capellmann Lutkemeier - Cashmere - 65.760 %
Anja Hermelink - Patmos - 65.120 %
9. Arlene Page - Wild One - 64.680 %
Martina Hannover Sternberg - Inara - 64.560 % 2.
Michael Klimke - Bacchus de Light - 64.280 %
Caroline Bonde - Largo - 63.240
Grand Prix
Brentina - McDonald,Debbie - 1834 - 76.41% (USA)
Aragon - Seidel,Guenter - 1723 - 71.79% (USA)
Maximus JSS - Haddad,Catherine - 1674 - 69.75% (USA)
4. Arabella - Blitz,Heather - 1638 - 68.25% (USA)
Goofy de Lully - Burfeind,Hartwig - 1624 - 67.66% (Germany)
6. Wild One - Page,Arlene F. - 1612 - 67.16% (USA)
Wasco - Bergmann ,Anke - 1595 - 66.45% (Germany)
Margue - Baumgart,Hannes - 1592 - 66.33% (Germany)
Aventino - Schauenburg,Tini - 1584 - 66.00% (Germany)
Layanna - Saalbach-Müller ,Ina - 1576 - 65.66% (Germany)
Easy Win - Balkenhol,Anabel - 1565 - 65.20% (Germany)
Charmeur - Kubelke,Jörn - 1564 - 65.16% (Germany)
13. Cooper - Dansby-Phelps,Suzanne - 1551 - 64.625% (USA) 14. De Niro - Wahler ,Theresa - 1550 - 64.58% (Germany)
Sotheby’s - Schulze-Bergmann Dr.,Karen - 1502 - 62.58% (Germany)
Northern Campion - Coghlan,Nadia - 1474 - 61.41% (Australia)
Welt-Heidjer - Düker,Uwe - 1461 - 60.875% (Germany)
Grand Prix Special
1. Aragon - Seidel,Guenter - 1829 points -
2. Maximus JSS - Haddad,Catherine - 1802
3. Wild One - Page,Arlene F. - 1725
4. Arabella - Blitz,Heather - 1711
5. Goofy de Lully - Burfeind,Hartwig - 1703
6. Wasco - Bergmann ,Anke - 1698
7. Easy Win - Balkenhol,Anabel - 1686
8. Margue - Baumgart,Hannes - 1681
9. Charmeur - Kubelke,Jörn - 1646
10. Aventino - Schauenburg,Tini - 1611
11. Layanna - Saalbach-Müller ,Ina - 1609
12. Cooper - Dansby-Phelps,Suzanne - 1587
[QUOTE=SGray;3008825]
GP rankings list
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/dressage/GPRankinglist2008.pdf
was updated 2/12/08
and includes the latest qualifying show which was the Gold Coast Opener on Jan 25-27
next qualifiers both at end of Feb/beginning March are Palm Beach Derby and the Mid Winter Dressage Fair[/QUOTE]
Thanks…looks the standings are the same
And yet if you read back over my post, nowhere did I suggest that she try for this. USEF made it impossible for the best US rider to qualify for US teams while living overseas, so now Meredith is riding for Germany and winning for them. Which is indeed unfortunate.
On another note, the ranking list which SGray so kindly just posted backs up why I said yesterday that I didn’t think we were in contention for any Olympic medals when it comes to our dressage team. I dearly hope to eat my words, but sadly I doubt I will have to.
depressing
Ridgeback…wow…I did not know this. Looking at the scores etc…I find it depressing, sad, and disapointing…
I think I am done now…there seems no point in discussing. Pretty apparent from all the threads, info on the website, that it is totally political.
Ms Haddad’s take; http://internationaldressage.com/Haddad-s-view-on-the-recent-statement-of-the-USEF.html
[QUOTE=ec412;3008644]
are you on the high performance committee?
Is so, perhaps you could answer why conflicting memos were sent out in Oct and then in December regarding dropped scores. If I have interpreted the memos correctly, the ability to “drop” scores was added after several US riders went to compete in Europe and did not do as well as expected…[/QUOTE]
In the rankings for the top twelve spots, six riders have only one score, to date. Two scores from qualifying competitions are required to go to the selection trials. For the others in the rankings, no drop scores, yet. Several US riders who competed in Europe used their “get out of jail free card” option from the USEF and dropped their less desirable scores.
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/dressage/OGMEMOREEuroscores.pdf
[QUOTE=lark berry;3010460]
In the rankings for the top twelve spots, six riders have only one score, to date. Two scores from qualifying competitions are required to go to the selection trials. For the others in the rankings, no drop scores, yet. Several US riders who competed in Europe used their “get out of jail free card” option from the USEF and dropped their less desirable scores.
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/dressage/OGMEMOREEuroscores.pdf[/QUOTE]
It was these memos that made me question what was going on. There was a september memo stating there will be no dropped scores. Then a few US riders went to compete in Europe, then the December memo allowing dropped scores that you have attached here. I am just trying to understand all of this. I kept asking if someone could explain, as I felt I misunderstood the memos and was not clear, but interestingly enough, it has been repeatedly ignored. Now that you mention “get out of jail free card”, I am pretty certain, I did not misinterpret and saw the chain of events correctly. Any US rider can drop a European score correct? What would be the intention of allowing this or the rationale behind it?
I too applaud CH’s courage in speaking out.
One question - Why does the USEF encourage and even provide financial backing for top riders to gain experience competing in Europe, if European judging is then deemed to be inferior for selecting an international team? Even the extra 2 pts. required from years past doesn’t make sense in that context.
[QUOTE=ec412;3008682]
Why was this not a problem for Lisa? I also can’t understand the conclusion that addressing the concerns would be unfair to the majority of athletes and compromising the welfare of team horses. Back to the east coast thing…hard not to keep going back there…[/QUOTE]
At the time that Lisa was trying to qualify for Sydney, the rules stated that an American rider based in Europe could meet the selection qualifying requirements if their average for the qualifying period was 2% higher than the 3rd placed U.S.-based rider. She missed out on Sydney because one of her shows had been downgraded from a CDI to a national show so was no longer considered by USEF as a qualifying competition, and she couldn’t take Rohdiamant away from his breeding duties long enough to get him to the last qualifying competition, which was 12 hours away in Austria. I don’t know what the rules were for Athens, but I assume it was somewhat the same as for Sydney, because she did make the team with Relevant by qualifying in Europe.
There was a big fuss about it, though, with many comments from people here that it wasn’t fair to our U.S.-based riders to get bumped by a rider living and training in Europe. I’m guessing that is maybe why the new rules state that the rider has to come here to participate in the selection trials. It is unfortunate that the trials this year are in California, but I guess USEF feels that it is only fair to rotate them around the country. Also, at the time the current rules were written, weren’t most of the top contenders based on the west coast. Gunter is there, Stefan is there (and who knew at the time that he would be losing Floriano?), Debbie was hoping to get Brentina back in competition shape, plus she had Felix coming along, Leslie is there with Tip Top and Kingston, etc.
It sucks for CH and for the U.S., because she has emerged over the past six months as the most solid U.S. bet. It sure sounds as though she is out of contention though, since she won’t come to California for the selection trials and the committee won’t bend the rules for her. It will be interesting to see who does end up on the team for Hong Kong.
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