did you know that cleveland bays

[Ashemont]

In 2000 we bred our homebred Oldenburg stallion “Welt Marke” to a purebred CB. Lucky Charm (Cleveland Bay PB2852) was owned by Kelly Butterfield in NY. The following year she produced a lovely filly, but unfortunately the mare soon had complications and died.

I was most impressed with the photos of this foal and her gorgeous topline. I believe that she was sold and I have never been able to find out any further information on her. If any of you CB fans know of her I’d love see current photos and find out how she has matured. TIA!

[Carol_Ames]

the originall warmblood!

I have heard a breeder refer to them as the "original:yes: warmblood"she breeds 3/4 and1 /2 crosses; wonderful horses!:yes:

[TN_Lilly]

Survival of the Cleveland Bay

IMHO, the CB needs several things to survive. First, the breed needs purebred stallions out in the public eye credibly competing. Though they are considered a light draft (like the Irish Draught), they are athletic in their own right.

Second, the market needs to improve for these horses. It had been that $10-$12 K would often buy a purebred filly/mare. But watching the ads online, even at this price, these horses do not always sell quickly. However, this fact could entice a newcomer with the resources to get involved. It would not take that large a herd of mares to become the largest N.A. breeder.

Third, as Maria as indicated, there needs to be a better presentation of these horses. Often the photos on breeders websites and sale ads do not do these horses justice. And seeing the same photo for decades, even if it is a professional photo isn’t enough either. Plus, a photo is not going to show the personality.

It is sad that the fact that this breed crosses so well may be its undoing. No pures eventually means no more crosses.

Anyone interested in the CB should check out the website for the Cleveland Bay Horse Society of North America. Maria has already posted the website address.

[Ashby]

I think there are some showing at Warrenton this weekend.

[aspenlucas]

[QUOTE=Ashemont;3476465]
In 2000 we bred our homebred Oldenburg stallion “Welt Marke” to a purebred CB. Lucky Charm (Cleveland Bay PB2852) was owned by Kelly Butterfield in NY. TIA![/QUOTE]
Ashemont, are you sure that isn’t a partbred (Lucky Charm)? PB is a partbred registration number and the 2852 is about were the partbred numbers were back then. That is one nice foal, any idea what it’s name was?

[tandem4u]

Tn Lilly is spot on. CB stallion needs to get out and do something! They need to show the US market what they can do!
What is happening is breeders are importing stallions that have done well showing in the UK and just bring them over here. Only to stand at stud.

Kate Telford is I think, one of the best breeders of CB in the world, because she uses her stallions. She shows the public what a CB can do!

The 1/4 and 1/2 bred won’t save the CB, but it will help for now. When you’re hanging on by tooth and nail, every little bit helps.
So I understand where Maria is coming from, she is right for now.

What we need to be careful of is that we do not dilute the breed to thin! A small amount of CB goes a long way! Even a 1/4 bred shows allot of CB in him. Breeders need to be careful not to take advantage of that.

Also, we need to make the breed more accessible to the public. Currently they are over priced IMHO. Both at a breeding stand point and a sales stand point.
Price tagging a horse’s breed is common! You expect to pay more for a WB than a Paint. But IMHO sellers are tagging on to much just because they are offering a CB or part bred.

A rare breed will always stay rare, if it is out of the reach of people!

The same with breeding. The cost is quite high for a stallion that is doing nothing. Allot of breeders are counting on what the stallion did in the UK and counting on the “past” history of the breed as it’s current selling point!

Personally I only like a CB bred to a TB IMHO that is the best cross of any breed. Working with the Queen in England, Sir John Miller was a great believer in the TB cross. I can tell you from first hand experience the TB/CB cross can do “any” discipline you need it to do. It also compliments the CB breed.
Crossing the CB with other Warmbloods IMHO does nothing to promote the CB lines.

If you look into the history of the CB, it was a poor mans horse! It would be a shame if we lost the breed because it became too expensive.

Robert
Tandem Hill Farm
www.tandemhillfarm.com

[tandem4u]

PB is a partbred Ashmont! but even as a 1/4 bred you can still see some CB in there

[Ashemont]

Well learn something new every day So momma was a partbred. I lost the photo I had of her when my hard drive crashed years ago but she really looked like a purebred to me so the CB must be very strong genetically.

I have no idea of this filly’s name and so it makes it doubly hard to track her. I believe she was a liver chestnut, like her dad, but could’ve shed her baby hair to a different color. I was really looking forward to seeing her mature as she showed so much promise. The owner had hoped to present her to AWS but when the mare died I think she just forgot about it.

So if PB stands for Part Bred, what is the registry number like for a Pure Bred?

[aspenlucas]

[QUOTE=Ashemont;3476741]

I have no idea of this filly’s name and so it makes it doubly hard to track her. I believe she was a liver chestnut, like her dad, but could’ve shed her baby hair to a different color. I was really looking forward to seeing her mature as she showed so much promise. The owner had hoped to present her to AWS but when the mare died I think she just forgot about it.[/QUOTE]
I’ll forward your information on the foal to Milinda Ellis who has a database of all listed CBs in the US. Let’s see if she has any information.

[TN_Lilly]

Prices of CBs

Robert, I agree with you regarding the pricing from one particular perspective. Anytime a horse, of any breeding (or any other good for that matter) stays on the market for an excessive period of time, it is an indication that the market will not support the price that seller wants. What is an “excessive period of time” is a subjective issue.

If a seller does not have to sell, they can keep asking the price they want until a buyer willing to pay it comes along. That happens in real estate, cars, horses, etc. But when many sellers have to sell, prices drop if buyers are not buying. We’ve got that going on with real estate right now – too many sellers and too few buyers. I suspect that is also going on with the horse market too.

[tandem4u]

[QUOTE=TN Lilly;3477068]
Robert, I agree with you regarding the pricing from one particular perspective. Anytime a horse, of any breeding (or any other good for that matter) stays on the market for an excessive period of time, it is an indication that the market will not support the price that seller wants.

Yes you’re exactly right! And what also happens is the longer the ads stay online, more & more people interested in buying a CB are put off by the prices they are seeing and assume they are to expensive.

What is also happening and is a very large problem. Is name dropping! If he looks like a CB, quite often people will say he has CB in him. Knowing they can not back up there claims.

There are plenty of CB’s currently on the market today, but when you get up close, there not Cleveland Bays… There bays from Cleveland!

Robert
Tandem Hill Farm
www.tandemhillfarm.com

[msrobin]

[QUOTE=TN Lilly;3474565]
Msrobin, the $500 filly on Craiglist is not a purebred. Her sire is half CB. I suspect this filly is 1/4 CB. However, she is still a bargain. The filly’s grandsire that is the purebred CB is a lovely horse that stands in Oregon named Tregoyd William.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for pointing that out. I know nothing about Cleveland Bay’s but, when I saw that ad I freaked out. Yes she is an adorable little filly wish she wasn’t 3000 miles away

[aspenlucas]

[QUOTE=msrobin;3477287]
Thanks for pointing that out. I know nothing about Cleveland Bay’s but, when I saw that ad I freaked out. Yes she is an adorable little filly wish she wasn’t 3000 miles away :)[/QUOTE]

I’ve seen her on other lists, she’s sold, so don’t worry you missed her!

[Ridley]

5 CB partbreds here!

I usually just lurk, but am always on the lookout for CB threads. I’ve bred 5 young uns over the past few years, and, yes, its a slow process, but the long wait is worth it. My 6 year old 1/4 CB by Night Flight is eventing at the Training Level. I have two 3-year olds 1/2 CB’s who are just being initally backed right now – one by Rambler’s Renown and one by Ramblers Richard Lionheart. Not sure what they want to be when they grow up, but likely eventers if I have my way.

2 new 1/2 CB babies (one Yorktown and one Richard) this summer who are delightful.

Hope someday to market them, but have decided to invest some time in them before selling. Someday, hope I can afford to get a purebred and help support the breed more fully. For now, I think (hope) the good press and attention the partbreds are getting helps on an awareness level. They really are wonderful creatures - smart, kind and willing.

[aspenlucas]

[QUOTE=Ridley;3477629]
I’ve bred 5 young uns over the past few years, and, yes, its a slow process, but the long wait is worth it. [/QUOTE]
With that many you have to be near Marilyn’s. Pictures??? Where are you? I’m in NE PA. But worked at Marilyn’s while in college. I have quite a few Richard and Yorkie too. LOFF them!

[Ridley]

yes, Marilyn is thepusher for my habit! I’m in Maryland. AspenLucas, I think you actually saw one of my youtube videos of the new filly this year and asked about her: Idlehour Becket. Lets see if I can put a couple you tubes up here (I’ve been very bad about photos this year). The videos aren’t great - they are so my mom can see how the babies are looking and just from a point and shoot camera.

Entirely too long, but both new foals from his year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqRisX6aEV4

This year’s filly – 5 days old
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO38i06Z_II&feature=user

I do have some recent photos somewhere – need to find them.

[Lionheart]

They Are the “Original” Warmblood.

CB’s were used as a foundation breed for all the modern day warmblood breeds.

I have 4 partbreds and 2 pures. we just got the pure mare over the weekend and are taking her within the week for Embryo Transfer so we can get some pures on the ground next year. Late in the year, yes, but never too late to try and get Pure’s on the ground.

I have a 4 year old colt that we are starting under saddle and he will go to shows. We also have a 2 year old colt imported from Pembridge Stud last Spring that is supposed to finish at 18 hands if the string test is correct! Oh my! They have both qualified for Dressage Sporthorse In Hand Championhships or Regionals or something. I just got the invitation.

My horses are going to go out and compete and show the public what CB’s can do.

My 10 year old has schooled Cross Country to the advanced level. He has a bit of an attitude from his Holsteiner Sire, which has held him back from showing lately as I’m very small and he’s very large. I have trotted him up to a 4’6" vertical and he has jumped it with ease. I hope that he gets his attitude in check and we can get back on the show scene next summer.

www.tipperaryfarm.us for photos.

My CB Sporthorse mare is competing with a student at the American Eventing Championships next month at the Junior Novice Level, the first season at novice for both of them. I’m very proud.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ykOaG6JLg-g

Ok, enough from me for now. Must go get lunch!

Great Thread!

[Thomas_1]

Another Cleveland Bay fan here. ![]('ve driven and trained a lot over the years. I also had a couple of nice stallion standing at my stud farm for quite some time.

Currently I just have a Cleveland Bay Cross though and here:

[IMG]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/classic-carriages/DSCF0049.jpg)

[ManyDogs]

CBs and Upperville

Hey Ya’ll-The CB gang always meets at Upperville. Classes are usually on Sunday morning. We haven’t gone recently but when we did go (2006, I think) it was freezing!
I ran into a big rock that sits next to our driveway this year (no, I’ll never live that down-but I WAS looking at my CBs :lol:) so we didn’t go. Definitely want to go next June.
CBs will be at KHP in Sept if anyone is going to the Rare Breeds Survival Trust show.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=tandem4u;3477264]

[QUOTE=TN Lilly;3477068]Robert, I agree with you regarding the pricing from one particular perspective. Anytime a horse, of any breeding (or any other good for that matter) stays on the market for an excessive period of time, it is an indication that the market will not support the price that seller wants.

Yes you’re exactly right! And what also happens is the longer the ads stay online, more & more people interested in buying a CB are put off by the prices they are seeing and assume they are to expensive.

What is also happening and is a very large problem. Is name dropping! If he looks like a CB, quite often people will say he has CB in him. Knowing they can not back up there claims.

There are plenty of CB’s currently on the market today, but when you get up close, there not Cleveland Bays… There bays from Cleveland!

Robert
Tandem Hill Farm
www.tandemhillfarm.com[/QUOTE]

your right there matey, people in uk say the same sort of thing becuase its bay- doh

yonks ago i had a horse come in as a rescue well 2 actualy from same place one was cb xwelsh d, was 6yrs old and un broke, so set to work, to trian it, she was a nice looking mare
named her sabrina, my yard help mum borught her off me in the end only charge what i got her for plus a bit of tack, anyways she lived till she was 26 yrs old died this year 2months ago, she was the most prettiest horse as she was only 14.3hh was stunted a bit due to worms infestation, but anyway was a decent mare, what i loved about her was she was plain bay balck mane and tail and black points tiny tiny tiny half moon on head but had 4 semtrical white fetlocks so she didnt need white boots to show her movements ha ha
the other horse was an arab xwelsh that also went to a mate of mine, hes still around today
as in 5mins away from my yard

the girl grew up with sab and moved her nearer home when she started working properly
as in a job - job, 2yrs ago as we still mates and keep in touch knew sab was on her last legs as she had retired her, ask me to find her another horse but a bigger one and must have cleveland bay or cleveland bay - she said to me, jen, i want a youngster
i said matey go home and tell me if you want one broken and done, or one you want to break and do yourself, as i had taught her well myself i knew full well she was more than caperble to do the task herself------- she came back to me and decided she wanted a youngster of about 2 to do it all herself so she could mould it into her way of thinking

so off i toddled I just happen to know where a perticular one was, knowing kelly abilities knowing the horse as well from a foal and the owner and why she was selling, as
she brought the horse and it was to much for her,as these horses can be stubborn if not understood , knew full well that kelly was a different kettle of fish to the owner that had her
at 18ths shes stood at 16hhs already, and was a naughty girly for her present owner,

so took kelly to go see her and advised her, that she could cope and cope well with this mare in the right hands could go far

she brought the mare-- and took her home, the mare is now broken in and ridden out
and kelly bringing her on nice and slowly ready to do and compete in dressage under te supervision of a top dressage qaulfied trianer- which shes had from day one
the horse is now 17hh shes cb x with a warmblood and plain bay no white on her at all.

really is a nice well behaved horse now and still only a baby nice to the eye and nice mover
should do well later
kelly also has ms- so i found out recently i hope she can acheive what she wants to
and i believe the horse will give her a good run as it trusts her so much the pair
are really nice together and going nice togehter i wish them luck with all my heart