[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6484152]
I provided the quote from the course designer Carol…have a look.
I know what I heard and I just verified it to be true.[/QUOTE]
If you are referring to your post 119 that wasn’t a quote
Bayhawk, what breed is Jaguar Mail then? Just curious who gets credit. Flexible?
You have so much knowledge and so much to add, I look forward to your knowledge but seriously what is up with the piss and vinegar? I don’t think TBs are out matched in Eventing, but a top horse is a rare gem no matter the registry. And I do not consider Rolex a “national” success either, one of very few **** courses in the world, people do come in from other countries regularly. But I do see more WBs succeeding as well, but with a lot of TB in them.
The Olympic course was longer, and that is why it favored TB’s. The stadium jumping portion level was lowered to compensate for the longer XC. If you make the stadium jumping harder it would benefit the WB. You can’t have it both ways.
And if you look at the history of any WB you understand that they all used Hotbloods to create and refine the breed. They however, have always done this with bringing in the blood via the Stallion. So, the use of blood mixed with their native mares is what is a WB. So Campesino who is Capitol/Sacramento Song XX/Tin Rod XX/ Korenbleem stamm 6786 is a Holsteiner. He is so because a Holsteiner mare was bred to the Holsteiner approved TB Korenbleem. That filly was then bred to the Holsteiner approved TB, Tin Rod XX. That fillly was then bred to the Holsteiner approved TB Sacramento Song XX. That filly was then bred to Capitol I, a Holsteiner. Never once was a dam bred to a non-approved Holsteiner. This is how WB breeding goes. So no, we don’t stake claim to any horse we want, just ones that come from Holsteiner Stamms and were bred to Holsteiner approved stallions. This is how the breed has been cultivated over Hundreds of years.
So when we look at Mark Todd’s horse by Contendro, we know it is a Hann. We know this because even though he is by the Holsteiner Stallion Contendro, he is out of the Hann. mare Pink Dame. So a Hannoverian, not a Holsteiner.
There is a simple straight forward to understanding what breed or studbook a horse belongs in. Not willy nilly as you suggest.
Tim
[QUOTE=Fred;6483978]
How ludicrous is it that a horse who is 94% TB is called a Hanoverian, when he looks/jumps/gallops/thinks like a Thoroughbred. He IS a Thoroughbred.[/QUOTE]
Genetically speaking - and according to Canada’s Animal Pedigree Act - an animal with >7/8th (>87.5%) “distinct” (and singular of course) bloodlines is open to definition of “pure”.
Whether the individual Breed or Registry chooses this definition, or whether they require “absolute” (such as the TB) is up to that organisation’s discretion.
[QUOTE=RyTimMick;6484652]
The Olympic course was longer, and that is why it favored TB’s. The stadium jumping portion level was lowered to compensate for the longer XC. If you make the stadium jumping harder it would benefit the WB. You can’t have it both ways.
Tim[/QUOTE]
Um, no. The Olympics cross-country course was short, as short as it could be and still be within FEI rules. But it was tough because they crammed a lot of jumping efforts into it (45 or something like that), and hilly. Horses coming off that course were tired no matter what their breeding, and it showed the next day in SJ.
We’ve been down this road before, but that is actually not true. The king of eventing, both long format and even since the switch to short format, has been the ISH and BSH. Go back and look at Badminton, Burghley, Olympic and World Championship results over the last 50 or more years and you will see this. American riders were buying and importing Irish bred horses as far back as the 50’s and 60’s, and by the 90’s the numbers imported had increased exponentially, just look at all the “Lion” horses Bruce Davidson rode and the litany of top ISHs the O’Connors rode from the late 80’s on. That was all long format.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6484176]
the WB has won the last 3 Olympics girlfriend.[/QUOTE]
2004?
[QUOTE=carolprudm;6484564]
If you are referring to your post 119 that wasn’t a quote[/QUOTE]
I will not play semantics with you. Excuse me for not putting it in quotation marks.
[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;6484811]
2004?[/QUOTE]
That was L. Law and Shear L’Eau (an ISH by Stan the Man xx)
And in 2000 it was DOC and Custom Made (also an ISH with substantial TB Blood)
WBs did win the last 2…but both were more than half TB up close.
ISH have traditionally been powerhouses in eventing…but full TBs do certainly hold their own…and will continue to hold their own.
As a breeder…I’m breeding crosses with WBs but that is because I’m also trying to make a living and know that my culls from eventing will sell better as dressage or show horses if they have a WB stamp on their butt (even though I consider them a TB cross more than a WB). Since I’m aiming for good movers, good jumpers and good minds…with a 50%+ dosage of TB blood up close…they will be good horses although my aim is for top level.
My own personal competition horses…are OTTBs…as I prefer riding and training them.
[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;6484801]
We’ve been down this road before, but that is actually not true. The king of eventing, both long format and even since the switch to short format, has been the ISH and BSH. Go back and look at Badminton, Burghley, Olympic and World Championship results over the last 50 or more years and you will see this. American riders were buying and importing Irish bred horses as far back as the 50’s and 60’s, and by the 90’s the numbers imported had increased exponentially, just look at all the “Lion” horses Bruce Davidson rode and the litany of top ISHs the O’Connors rode from the late 80’s on. That was all long format.[/QUOTE]
There’s a different type of horse necessary now though, no doubt about it. For example Eagle Lion was unreliable in dressage. His trot hurt my eyes. (And speaking of the O’Connor’s Irish horses, I thought Biko was an Irish TB.)
It will be harder and harder to find suitable OTTBs for the very top because they have to kick a$$ in dressage. A LOT of TBs have the movement for UL dressage eventing but tension gets in the way, even with pro riders.
In its present state the sport still requires a lot of blood.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;6484852]
"That was L. Law and Shear L’Eau (an ISH by Stan the Man xx)
And in 2000 it was DOC and Custom Made (also an ISH with substantial TB Blood)
WBs did win the last 2…but both were more than half TB up close."
So WB’s have won the last 4 Olympics in a row.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6484883]
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;6484852]
"That was L. Law and Shear L’Eau (an ISH by Stan the Man xx)
And in 2000 it was DOC and Custom Made (also an ISH with substantial TB Blood)
WBs did win the last 2…but both were more than half TB up close."
So WB’s have won the last 4 Olympics in a row.[/QUOTE]
True…but not European WBs;) And still horses with substantial TB blood.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6484883]
So WB’s have won the last 4 Olympics in a row.[/QUOTE]
I like how ISHs are considered WBs by continental types when it is convenient, esp considering you guys wouldn’t let one any where near your studbooks (except for the SF folks).
I think what you meant to say is purpose bred sporthorses have won the last 4 OG gold medals.
[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;6484899]
I like how ISHs are considered WBs by continental types when it is convenient, esp considering you guys wouldn’t let one any where near your studbooks (except for the SF folks).
I think what you meant to say is purpose bred sporthorses have won the last 4 OG gold medals.[/QUOTE]
They are warmbloods. They ARE European WARMBLOODS. Last time I checked , Ireland was a part of Europe.
You people are getting ridiculous. When was the last time a 100% TB won the Olympics ? I’m not going to look but it has obviously been at least SIXTEEN years ago.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6484914]
They are warmbloods. They ARE European WARMBLOODS. Last time I checked , Ireland was a part of Europe.
You people are getting ridiculous. When was the last time a 100% TB won the Olympics ? I’m not going to look but it has obviously been at least SIXTEEN years ago.[/QUOTE]
Well…honestly…winning the Olympics to me isn’t the only measure of a breed. One won Burghley LAST year and Rolex this year. One was second at WEG. There have been TBs in the top placings at most major events…including the Olympics recently.
Agree. I’d guess there are some eventers out there who could be talented enough to make the team but are unwilling or unable to do what they would have to do to get on a team (in herit money, become a professional, win the lottery, marry money, sacrifice family or career to travel all over the country to get qualified). It’s quite possible to become a really nice rider and have a lot of fun on your own terms, without having to show like mad, especially when your sport has gone a way different direction in the last 15 years. I think a lot of dressage folks are figuring this out, as well.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6484821]
I will not play semantics with you. Excuse me for not putting it in quotation marks.[/QUOTE]
Without a reference it is just hearsay IMHO
[QUOTE=carolprudm;6482530]
Have you ever evented, even at the lowly training level?
I used to, mostly by myself with no groom. (I was lucky if I could get my mom to come along to hold the horse when I went to the bathroom) The effort is staggering, both training and competing, which is one reason I quit. I just didn’t have the time to do it safely. Back when I was showing, under the same circumstances, little or no help, three dressage tests in a day were nothing like one or two days at a horse trial as they were called then.[/QUOTE]
Agree on this, also. It is exhausting when you do it all yourself, especially as an adult who also has to work to pay the bills. You can take lessons, go school, do hunter paces, etc. and have fun without a 4-day dawn-to-dusk commitment (plus the occasional pre-xcountry nausea) squashed between workdays. If you aren’t a pro, and foot the bills yourself, your horse needs maintenance, etc. it takes an almost Rain Man type focus to keep at it (and work on improvement in all 3 phases), which isn’t necessarily a good thing sometimes.
[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;6484899]
I like how ISHs are considered WBs by continental types when it is convenient, esp considering you guys wouldn’t let one any where near your studbooks (except for the SF folks).
I think what you meant to say is purpose bred sporthorses have won the last 4 OG gold medals.[/QUOTE]
Actually Wega is 1/8 or 1/16 Irish
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wega73
But many people who breed Irish Draught crosses really don’t care for the term Warmblood
[QUOTE=carolprudm;6484950]
Without a reference it is just hearsay IMHO[/QUOTE]
You can google it just like I did.
