I am not sure of the criteria, but I think it would be a much better division than amateur / pro .
Looks like TPTB are already considering this in other disciplines.
I think it is kind of ridiculous. As someone who “squeaked into” her first season at Second Level this year, I deserved to be placed lower than more confirmed AA pairs because I made more mistakes.
It is, after all, a competition. The classes are already broken down by Open, AA, Jr/YR, Pony. It shouldn’t be the case that everyone gets a blue ribbon.
And if you really want a blue ribbon, you can show Test of Choice and get one at most shows.
I don’t think I won a class all year, but I would rather be 3rd of 15 than 1st of 1.
My class at Regionals had over 40. I didn’t get a ribbon, but all that did was make me want to do better next year! Not have a separate division where I get a ribbon for being a Third Tier amateur.
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I’m in favor of it. I wild carded to Nationals last year from Region 8, which is one of the more competitive regions. There were at least 60 people in my class for regionals. I actually led the class for most of the day and ended up just out of the ribbons. I then competed at Nationals in a lower level championship last year, and my class was won by a rider who, as an amateur, not only consistently competes in the grand prix ring (with good scores), but is also married to a professional rider. I’m a regular ammy who only gets to ride my own horse three times a week while also juggling a full time job. That grand prix rider riding in the first level AA championship, where most of the competitors are like me, has an advantage just by nature of their life. I felt bad that I shipped my horse 10 hours to Kentucky for what felt like an unfair playing field, in terrible weather of all things.
I also competed at CBLMs this year. And even though we didn’t have the best score in our championship (my horse is learning changes and thought it would be fun to throw one in during what was supposed to be counter canter and ruined our coefficient scores), it was a much more level playing field. The scores were much closer together. And there were open riders competing in my class. But the beauty of it was that because no one in my division had competed above PSG, we were much more evenly matched in experience, which made it that much more competitive.
Yeah, no one deserves a blue ribbon. But why go to competition if you’re not there to compete? And it’s not about everyone getting a blue ribbon. It’s about letting people actually be competitive with a chance of doing well. As a rider of an off-breed horse, I understand trying to improve your scores and competing against yourself, but my horse and I are good enough to win, against riders with more experience on nicer horses, if we’re firing on all cylinders. And I like getting blue ribbons. It just makes the experience all that more fun. What I don’t love is getting beat by someone I never stood a chance to be competitive with.
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Eventing already does this. At most shows, there are open, rider, and horse divisions. For the rider divisions, the rider can’t have completed an event more than one level above the current level in the past five years. For the horse divisions, the horse can’t have completed an event more than one level above.
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Where on earth did you get the idea that this is about giving everyone blue ribbons or that it makes it easier to get a ribbon? It just means that instead of breaking down by open and AA we instead break down by rider experience more like eventing - open, horse, and rider. If you like to challenge yourself feel free to enter open classes. If you want to compete against those with equivalent experience then enter the rider classes.
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Say you ride a leased schoolmaster 3rd to get your Bronze, but your OWN young horse needs to come out at TL next year… but now you are competing against MUCH more experienced riders than you. Do you really think that is more fair?
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Just to clear some things up - the current PROPOSED rule change for Dressage takes AA eligibility from those AAs who have ridden in CDIs, or on one of the National Teams, or at the Olympics (seems I remember when ONLY amateurs could compete at the Olympics…). It would be ADDED to the existing AA rules.
To me, this just sounds like someone is tired of losing to Alice T or one of the other non-pros who compete up there in the stratosphere.
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If someone has their bronze, they’re probably equally as competent at riding a training level test as someone who has their gold medal.
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The point was, “schoolmaster”… the pushbutton kind, not the reall teaching type.
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Even with a “push button” schoolmaster, you still have to be a competent enough of a rider to score a 60 at third level to get your bronze scores.
At training level, it’s mostly about the horse anyway. On my previous horse, a young german riding pony, I was getting scores in the 70s having never competed above training in recognized shows. She had beautiful gaits and was obedient. Did I lose to Michael Bragdell and his 4 year old stallions from Hilltop when they didn’t split classes? Sure. But I also beat other riders who had gotten their scores on schoolmasters bringing up young horses who didn’t have as nice of gaits as mine.
As far as your other post, I believe the point that Lauren Spreiser is making in her article is that she believes the CBLM way of sorting rider divisions based on rider experience is fairer than by basing it on how they report their taxes to the IRS. Which really wouldn’t have anything to do with Alice Tarjan, who would be forced to compete against the big boys no matter what under the CBLM standard.
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Yeah but… I regularly compete against an Olympian in the Rider division, and at Championships I came 5th with three professionals ahead of me. I bet if I rode multiple horses every day like a pro I’d have done even better! Why the pros don’t go in the Open division is beyond me.
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So here is how it doesn’t make sense. A few of us were in a First Level AA Regionals with many people. Yeah, we didn’t win.
In the proposed example, Senior A at Training is for people who haven’t shown above Second, and Senior B is for those who have.
I can’t afford a trained upper level horse. I hope that next year I can show the unbroke 6 yo I bought and have been training for 3 years, at Third, maybe, through all my sweat and tears. Maybe. Who knows. He might break. God forbid.
I also have a weanling I bred. In the pipeline.
In 3-4 years, because I show at my other horse I bought for next to nothing at Third I have to show the baby against Upper Level riders now?
That is fundamentally unfair to those of us ammys who have to develop our horses to afford this sport, and who also have a day job, and a family, and who are just trying to grow doing 4-5 shows a year and develop our horses from the ground up….
My horse isn’t the fanciest by far, but if all my hard work means I have to compete against Olympians while people who can’t get basic scores fare better? Sorry, I work too hard to do this, my job, my kids, on a budget to support this.
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What pros aren’t in Open? Is this Eventing?
It’s pretty rich to claim you were robbed because of weather in Kentucky from the northeast. I lived there for 3 years. If your horse can’t deal with cold weather, I don’t know what to say other than that complaining about your results is weird.
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Yep - pretty common here for pros to go in the Rider, and especially Horse divisions in eventing. Totally legal. Totally lame. (there’s an Amateur division but not always offered) 
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The whole thing is too confusing…Look around, we all know people with a lot of money, nice horses can’t ride for the life of them. Then there are people with a lot of money, nice horses who ride really well.
Then there are the rest of us doing the best we can in open or AA. That’s life in competition of any kind ours just happens to include a live animal.
My aspirations are always to better myself and my horse…recently I had to realize my current horse does not want to do upper level so I will find him a lovely lower level home. My next prospect just turned 3 and I will enjoy riding him up the levels as I did my last two horses. I am not super talented, don’t have a lot of money and pushing 65 next year, it is what it is and I am still really enjoying dressage!
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There’s never going to be a completely equitable way to divide things, but by experience makes more sense to me than by pro/amateur especially given the current USEF definitions.
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I’m definitely not saying I was robbed because of the weather in Kentucky. I live in Pennsylvania, I’ve been to plenty of horse shows in the snow, rain, hail, and apparently now we have tornados popping up. I rode at Region 8 again this year and it rained the whole second half of the show. My horse was not thrilled, but he was fine. He was much more concerned about the tents they had everywhere this year and the one ring steward who accidentally terrified him by whipping a blanket around herself in front of him right before we entered the ring. And we actually did fine at Nationals. I had a great time. But we weren’t competitive.
In addition to the winner of the first level AA championship ending up being someone consistently riding grand prix, I didn’t love that I had to ride my championship test outside in 35 degrees with sleet pounding me and my horse in the face. That’s two separate things. My horse was great, he clearly was unhappy, but he did everything I asked and never put a foot wrong. But I felt bad that I shipped him to Kentucky from Pennsylvania to end up competing in crappy weather and against someone who sort of has an unfair advantage based on the nature of their life. I’m not asking for ribbons to be handed to me. But the way the divisions are divided doesn’t always feel like a level playing field.
Based on my personal experience, I agree with Lauren’s point in the article. I feel like it’s fairer to base rider divisions on experience than how you pay your taxes.
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Yes.
I am riding first level for the third time. I’m talking about how to get my scores into the high 70s. Yes, I have a nice horse… but I also have more experience. While I would get my butt kicked by Steffen Peters every time, I feel it would be more fair for me to compete against him when I go to CA, than it would for someone who has never done a counter canter serpentine to show against me. I believe in welcoming people to the sport, and that it is FAR harder to learn something the first time than to do it subsequent times.
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I thought the purpose of showing was to demonstrate the proficiency of you and your horse at that level.
That’s where the numbers count. I have seen aFEI level rider goof at Training Level, they weren’t proficient at it. I have also been the only rider at that show at 4/3, my score was awful, BUT I got a blue ribbon. 
So, please, no more divisions.
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