Right - and even when they do split divisions they make them A and B, instead of Amateur and Rider for example.
Even at championships last week I entered Amateur (non championships) and was put in the Rider Championships class! And surprise: there were loads of pros in that class. I got uograde points but since points mean nothing to me, missing out on a red ribbon is a bummer.
But pros are allowed in the Rider divisions. My question is: how do they justify it to themselves?
Agree with this. Those of you having snooze fests out there, consider yourself lucky! My young horse has a really good temperament but he is definitely not boring at shows! Most young horses need miles to trot down centerline without blinking an eye, and with shows as expensive as they are, it takes me years to put those miles on them.
Not to derail into an eventing thread, but Iâm surprised an event would put you in a CH division if you didnât enter it.
Less surprised that they didnât run an amateur division. Around me (area 2) Iâve seen maybe 2-3 amateur divisions anywhere, rider is much more common, and the championships are only divided Junior/Senior.
Pros can enter rider if they qualify, since itâs based on experience and not pro/am status.
Yep the number of times ânaughtyâ and âtactfully riddenâ or something similar made it on the card for my young horseâs first show season this year definitely kept us out of the 70s even though my coach said we were both fully capable of it, and it sure wasnât boring!
This thread is interesting to me because I am actually putting much of the early show miles on this horse in the dressage ring and not the hunter ring where he will probably wind up. One, because he is growing a lot so training level seemed much kinder to his body than jumping. Two, see ânaughtyâ above. Adding in the complexity of navigating a jump course did not look like fun. And third, although I did do some ticketed schooling and some baby poles classes at some local shows, I am actually barred from entering several classes that would be entirely appropriate (and affordable) for this HORSE because I as the rider donât fit into the rules for the class due to past experienceâŠeven for certain specifications, experience that was decades ago. Perhaps I have that experience but I lack some extra bravery these days!
It is honestly never going to be âfairâ. Someone will always have more time, more money, more other resources, better horseflesh, whatever. But itâs so crazy expensive, I kind of donât even want to try developing my own youngster as a show horse anymore when it can be hard to find ways to get miles that are appropriate and somewhat accessible. At some point, the informal off property schooling and ticketed days isnât enough compared to when the loudspeakers come on and the vendors are there and thereâs someone in the judgeâs box and in the bleachers and music playing and so on. For me, dressage was more accessible because it was a little bit cheaper and I could enter a low level class. On the weekend. At the lower levels thereâs going to be a mix of green riders and green horses, and placing and ribbons donât mean that much to me at these levelsâŠthereâs the person with a 65% getting mostly 6.5s across the board and then the one getting anything from a 1 to an 8 (this was me 
).
This thread also reminds be of being a junior doing the h/j equitation. It is very hard and expensive to be in the top at the national medal finals. And many riders wind up going who really arenât going to be competitive. They couldnât travel to show among the best all summer but got qualified in their relatively easier region with perhaps softer courses and no indoor shows. They could never afford the horse that had the bravery and scope for the finals, maybe some of them as pairs could do it on their very very best day. But yet they work to get qualified, and they go and they try. Same thing if we are talking dressage nationals. Itâs a National final. You will be there among the best. Why shouldnât it be very hard to be competitive to qualify for and place a national final? Particularly in a sport that is judged. Again, itâs really never going to be âfairâ to everyone.
Yes. Here in S. California, it means competing against half our Olympic team and most of our Pan Am team.
I was pretty surprised too! But we did pretty well so at the end of the day I wasnât sad. I just wish events would let you enter a division instead of writing in your top three divisions on the entry and letting them choose one⊠or none! If Iâd been in the non championship class Iâd have gotten the 3rd place ribbon with my score (dressage judge was same too) so⊠
I wouldnât complain if it never happened, but it would be nice if there were divisions by experience, both for Ammies and Pros. Not all pros are dressage pros or upper level pros, some are trainers for low level riders or horses and might not actually be an experienced dressage rider, but HAVE to compete in Open (or are supposed to, anyways). I always wondered if there was a way to make it fair for a pro from another discipline, like reining for example, thatâs getting into dressage but is very inexperienced with it.
The more I think about it, the more complicated it gets though 
Sorry if this has already been clarified but the points an amateur gets in eventing donât do anything except contribute to your leaderboard standing. And to come at the top of the leaderboard in my division youâre someone who wins almost every time out, and has the funds to/lives in an area that allows you to compete every other week all year.
To qualify for AECs you need to come 1st or 2nd in any USEA recognized event. âPlacing requirement earned through the USEA Amateur Upgrade Policy apply only toward the amateur divisions and the open modified division.â - so my understanding is that while an amateur may get upgrade points perhaps they only get AEC quals from amateur divisions? (IMEX coming 2nd w upgrade points recently, I did NOT get an AEC qual out of it)
And thatâs doubly annoying: the Amateur division is rarely offered here, even if you enter it. And since pros can jump on the Rider divisions, they scoop up the ribbons and the amateurs get⊠useless points. And no AEC qualifications.
Correct. I qualified for the amateur division at AEC one year this way, though I didnât go.
FWIW Iâve never seen an amateur division run near me. Open/Rider/Horse and sometimes Junior is all Iâve ever seen. IMO, the O/R/H divisions do about as well as anything else to actually divide divisions by experience as anything Iâve seen. Better for sure than Open/Amateur in dressage.
My local dressage organization runs schooling shows with just one âclassâ per test, but they pin separately for open/amateur/junior- so most of the time youâre getting a ribbon against just 2-3 other people, even if there are 6 or 8 in the âclassâ.
Sidetrack but: Iâm pretty sure you get a qual. What you quoted means you canât compete in open/rider/horse AEC divisions with an amateur upgrade placing, not that you need to be in an amateur division to qualify (which barely ever exists over here). I think they just arenât showing up on our records yet for shows that occurred since around 2023 AECs. I was wondering why my record didnât show Qs so I looked at some other people who placed 1st/2nd and they didnât have Qs either, even pros with non-upgrade placings. Early August results look normal. I think itâs a website glitch that has to do with the abbreviations in records changing (if you look at the key below your record youâll see itâs not A, Q, C anymore). I am not going to worry about it until itâs closer to mattering, but you can always email them â theyâre pretty responsive.
Aha! Well that would be encouraging! For my last three results there is no âAâ or âQâ in the âAEC-Qâ column though maybe as you say itâs just a lagâŠ
(I recently asked USEA what the letters meant and their reply is here in case anyone finds it helpful: âThe âCâ indicates the result can be applied to the completion requirements of the AEC qualifications. An âAâ in the column would indicate a placing obtained through the amateur upgrade. A âQâ would indicate a qualifying placement (1st or 2nd). Completion and placement results cannot be combined: The AEC requires a total of 3 results, the placement plus two completions, all three without cross-country jump penalties.â)
You can qualify based on your placing in any division at that level; what you qualify for at the AECs is based on who you are as a rider. I qualified to compete in horse, rider, open, and amateur because I am eligible for all the divisions even though I only competed in the open division at my smurf level (BN).
The AECs were an absolute blast even though we were not competitive. I really hope I can manage to qualify again (SO not guaranteed). We went through the head of the lake; we stadium jumped in the big ring - and our names were on the big screen. There were adult beverages and parties most nights. Well done and so much fun.
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