Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[Samotis]

The key word here is mismanagement.

Regardless if they are too skinny or IR. The horses are not being taken care of properly.

Are they starving? No. But, being under nourished can cause growth and soundness issues in the young ones she is selling, and being overweight can also cause lameness. So this does effect future owners of these horses.

Bottom line is she needs to take care of all her outstanding bills, and sell the horses then get some help.

It is too bad all this has happened but regardless is it is a mental problem or not she needs to be responsible for her actions.

[ise]

I think Romantic Star looks underweight and with not conditioning.

Redwine looks seriously fat. There is a big difference between the look of a stallion that is “fit” from being in work and competing. I would be concerned about how much fat he has and the neck situation does give me concern about IR.

[runwayz]

Wowza! RW looks way too big! He has never looked like that, and I have seen him plenty in person. His back even looks dippy maybe because of his huge a$$ and neck. I had heard that all horses except 2 stallions had been moved, this was a few weeks ago. Funny about what Diane and Laurie say about thier fillies, because mine has a big neck too, and could easily head that direction if not managed.

[sid]

3dogs…yes. Pretty much the equivalent to Type II diabetes.

I’ve had several horses with this affliction over the years. There is no “fault” here – it is not “caused” by the level of care. It is metabolic condition. But once they show the signs management of them is key. Tons of threads on the Horse Care forum. I’ve seen enough IR horses (and managed them as well) to see the more than obvious signs in RW.

Illona…thanks for the good eye one other one that looks underweight, though not badly so.

Looks like these guys need more astute management, for sure.

Neither stallion has a sparkle in their eye. They look “removed” from feeling vibrant.

[rapazzini09]

i take it Jill doesn’t work her horses? It is shame that Redwine’s weight isn’t being managed and he isn’t being exercised.

[AndNirina]

Oh, and wow… a Jill spotting in that album. IMG 1202, that’s her standing next to Redwine. Redwine looks a lot worse than when I saw him a few years ago.

[TrueColours]

Interesting. I wasnt quite “getting” what you were referring to until I looked at Image 1205. Its not the fact that RW is a stallion with a typically cresty neck - but its that hard ridge of “something” that runs right up his neck that looks like a huge deposit that doesnt belong there

[DownYonder]

Those photos make me sad. Agree that neither stallion has a sparkle in his eye. Neither do they appear to be getting much exercise. And Redwine definitely looks like an IR horse - fat, cresty, and he is getting a sagging topline. He sort of reminds me of a fat pony. And the rings on his hooves would indeed make me suspect a laminitic condition.

[trubandloki]

@Laurierace;6578244

Aside from needing a trim and a mane pull they couldn’t look much better. I hope that puts that part of the discussion to rest so we can concentrate on the deceptive business practices instead.

I have to agree with this.

Do I like this woman’s horse keeping? No. But just because her stallions are out of shape (something we would all assume because they are not showing or anything) and need a good grooming does not need to turn into an exaggerated new line of ‘she is horrible because she has an IR horse’.

Stick to the real issues instead of turning some out of shape horses into something more than they are.

[Jack16]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;6579168]
I have to agree with this.

Do I like this woman’s horse keeping? No. But just because her stallions are out of shape (something we would all assume because they are not showing or anything) and need a good grooming does not need to turn into an exaggerated new line of ‘she is horrible because she has an IR horse’.

Stick to the real issues instead of turning some out of shape horses into something more than they are.[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry but I have to disagree to some extent here. Yes, we need to keep it on track as to her bad business practices but I think it’s very important to see how she keeps her horses. If a potential breeder or buyer of one of her horses sees these things I would hope they’d run the other way. The number one reason I didn’t buy a foal from her is because I was concerned about how the mares and foals are cared for. Alone, I don’t think we need to bash anyone for having an IR horse or even to speculate when we don’t know the truth but I do think it’s pertinant to show these things when I think one of the reasons this thread is here is to prevent others from being scammed whether it be monetary or ending up with a horse that may not have been well cared for.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=Jack16;6579371]
I’m sorry but I have to disagree to some extent here. Yes, we need to keep it on track as to her bad business practices but I think it’s very important to see how she keeps her horses. If a potential breeder or buyer of one of her horses sees these things I would hope they’d run the other way. The number one reason I didn’t buy a foal from her is because I was concerned about how the mares and foals are cared for. Alone, I don’t think we need to bash anyone for having an IR horse or even to speculate when we don’t know the truth but I do think it’s pertinant to show these things when I think one of the reasons this thread is here is to prevent others from being scammed whether it be monetary or ending up with a horse that may not have been well cared for.[/QUOTE]

The number one reason you shouldn’t buy a mare, foal or breeding from her is the fact that she is a criminal and there is a very good chance you will get screwed somehow in the transaction. Period. That is more than reason enough. It’s like a ten thousand pound ice cream sundae, stop trying to put whipped cream and sprinkles on it, it is more than big enough already.

[ise]

I’ll venture an observation on these photos. This, IMHO, looks like horses that are being fed grain but perhaps no quality hay or grass turnout. For horses to have a properly functioning digestive tract they have to produce a huge amount of saliva (8-10 gallons) The saliva comes from their chewing and therein lies the necessity to provide equines with plenty of good quality hay and grazing on grass and plenty of clean water. Just putting more grain in front of them - which is usually eaten and digested over a short time does not provide for a properly functioning system. This starts to set up improper processing and often an animal that is being fed alot but isn’t getting a balanced nutritional intake.

[trubandloki]

@Laurierace;6579407

It’s like a ten thousand pound ice cream sundae, stop trying to put whipped cream and sprinkles on it, it is more than big enough already.

Love this…even if I would still have to have sprinkles. What good is a sundae with out sprinkles. :lol:

[Laurierace]

Ok so if those pictures instead showed two immaculately conditioned animals that are in such great shape that they could walk into the show ring this afternoon all would be forgiven and we could sing the praises of her operation to the masses right? Didn’t think so. So what is the point of doing the opposite? It is a distraction in my opinion.

[daisycutter87]

Redwine looks like a welsh cob. I don’t mean that in a bad way; it’s just the way he’s built. I think he looks pretty good. A little flabby but he’s not in work. I dont think he’s morbidly obese by any means. As per the crest of his neck: I don’t see anything wrong with that either. All of the stallion’s I’ve been around in my life have had that overly cresty neck and they were show-condition and fed properly. I dont think his topline is saggy either: it’s the way he’s built. He looks like an overgrown pony. I do agree: he could use a visit from a hoof trimmer. Romantic Star looks good but I would like to see maybe a few pounds on him. I don’t trust photo dates either so I’m not justifying that these were actually taken in July

[ise]

daisycutter87 - I couldn’t disagree with you more. I own a GRP stallion so I am familiar with the issues of the neck development. Welsh Cob stallions don’t look like Redwine unless they are also not on a proper nutrition plan. I can’t imagine that you feel Redwine’s condition in these photos is what you’ve seen on other stallions and feel it’s acceptable.

[Iron_Horse_Farm]

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=insulin+resistant+horse&num=10&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=7t4GV52WmhLuDM:&imgrefurl=http://www.myequineclinic.com/equine-insulin-resistance/&docid=re_hfkJbNE87hM&imgurl=http://www.myequineclinic.com/wp-content/images/insulin_resistance_big.jpg&w=374&h=287&ei=1nhkUOeCO4jciQKS6YHgDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=112&vpy=147&dur=6812&hovh=197&hovw=256&tx=178&ty=87&sig=113848600429755907029&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=179&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:73

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=insulin+resistant+horse&num=10&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=Y01RpWhsMRVqkM:&imgrefurl=http://www.equinemedsurg.com/Heiro%2520article.html&docid=IhX7qq5HuCbO3M&imgurl=http://www.equinemedsurg.com/freedom3%252520copy.jpg&w=494&h=360&ei=1nhkUOeCO4jciQKS6YHgDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=320&vpy=150&dur=15&hovh=192&hovw=263&tx=168&ty=109&sig=113848600429755907029&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=196&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:76

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=insulin+resistant+horse&num=10&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=GNup4FvGoJ5LYM:&imgrefurl=http://depaoloequineconcepts.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/supplements-for-insulin-resistance-in-horses/&docid=f4ZmbXY5u_DVIM&imgurl=http://depaoloequineconcepts.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/cresty-neck.jpg&w=350&h=263&ei=1nhkUOeCO4jciQKS6YHgDQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=332&sig=113848600429755907029&page=2&tbnh=136&tbnw=202&start=13&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:13,i:145&tx=106&ty=73

THese pictures are all exactly what I see when I see RW. You people who think that this looks acceptable must be seeing something that I don’t. I didn’t look at all of the pictures in the album, but as a vet tech, if the horse in those photos walked in the clinic, we would ask how long he has been IR as a standard part of the history.

[trubandloki]

I doubt anyone is saying Redwine does not look IR. But what does Redwine being IR have to do with anything that is being discussed here? There are a ton of horses in the world that are IR, are you taring and feathering those horse owners too?
I think Jill Burnell deserves all the scrutiny in the world, but not because her stallion is clearly IR, out of shape and lacking muscle tone.

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;6579637]
I doubt anyone is saying Redwine does not look IR. But what does Redwine being IR have to do with anything that is being discussed here? There are a ton of horses in the world that are IR, are you taring and feathering those horse owners too?
I think Jill Burnell deserves all the scrutiny in the world, but not because her stallion is clearly IR, out of shape and lacking muscle tone.[/QUOTE]

I think it just ends up being lumped into the summation that over all her animals are not being cared for within the standards that any breeder should ad-hear by.

Thin horses , obese horses , stallions with possible untreated medical issues (don’t forget the photo of Federalist’s swollen weeping eye ) , unwell foals with large worm burdens, farrier needs not being maintained /met etc.

I think over all it is just another straw of proof if you will that she is NOT what she portrays herself to be to her customers.

[sid]

trubandloki –
Those pics were posted in response to several people wondering where the stallions were and if they were okay.

I posted that RW looked seriously IR as an observation. It would be speculation to say whether JB is or is not managing it. It can be tough to manage.

While it went off topic as to JB’s business dealings, at least a lot of people got a “primer” on IR – and that’s a good thing :).