Yes the issue is proper care and diet for ALL the horses - Stallions, mares, young horses and foals. It would be rare for a farm owner to be varying the level of care of these various groups. And even with mares - especially those in foal - the level of care DOES affect the in utero foals in many ways - some that they carry through their entire life.
I’ve see photos of Redwine on her advertisements - the ones posted here show a considerable difference.
WHO CARES!?! If the horses looked like God himself was caring for them on a daily basis I would not do business with her. You guys are discussing lipstick shades on a pig. It’s still a pig.
[QUOTE=rapazzini09;6579059]
i take it Jill doesn’t work her horses? It is shame that Redwine’s weight isn’t being managed and he isn’t being exercised.[/QUOTE]
Where would she exercise them? The Petaluma ranch did not have any arenas. The one arena that was there was converted into the stallion pens the horses where photographed in.
That little property was jammed packed with horses. No place for any of them, mares, foals or stallions to properly exercise.
[QUOTE=rapazzini09;6579059]
i take it Jill doesn’t work her horses? It is shame that Redwine’s weight isn’t being managed and he isn’t being exercised.[/QUOTE]
Where would she exercise them? The Petaluma ranch did not have any arenas. The one arena that was there was converted into the stallion pens the horses where photographed in.
That little property was jammed packed with horses. No place for any of them, mares, foals or stallions to properly exercise.
I’m happy to see they’re fed, with a good coat. I do not see fat deposits under the skin on red wine at all. I see muscles under his coat and although he is a little chunky, he is not morbidly obese by an means. He is a stallion out of work. This is ridiculous and you’re all blowing his condition WAY out of the water. Could he afford to lose a few pounds? Yes he could. Is he morbidly obese? Absolutely not. I’d say his condition is MUCH better off than him skin and bones and under-fed. Besides for his lack of hoof trim; he looks quite healthy. ise@ssl: you obviously have not been around cob stallions.
He’s not a Cob… you are comparing apples and cumquats.
I agree that is highlights the lack of proper care for all the horses.
I compare his build to this stallion (who i found through a quick google search)
http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com/wbdirnew/han/hn0023/hn0023lg.JPG
I dont consider him fat either…
Is IR genetically inheritable? (Hope I worded that correctly)
My selle x holst/tb mare is quite the lump with a somewhat cresty neck, and I know her sire had quite the neck as well. Even when he was being ridden and exercised.
[QUOTE=daisycutter87;6579841]
I compare his build to this stallion (who i found through a quick google search)
http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com/wbdirnew/han/hn0023/hn0023lg.JPG
I dont consider him fat either…[/QUOTE]
But he is fat. Not being offensive but the stallion in your photo is plump. I know fat glossy horses make horse owners feel good but there is a fine dangerous line that we walk between fat and glossy and fat with obesity related health issues.
Why not start a separate thread about body condition scores and/or IR before the mods come on and point out that this thread is once again going off in a direction different than the stated purpose.
[QUOTE=sid;6578225]
Redwine looks IR.[/QUOTE]
What means IR ? What is this abbreviation (?) standing for ?
Thank you - I am no native speaker…
I saw Red Wine in Germany and he looks certainly different in these pics. He had a huuuuge crescent neck. So if not in training at all anymore the neck looks now as I would expect it to look like.
I.R. = Insulin Resistant 
[QUOTE=Laurierace;6578651]
You guys were speculating that the horses weren’t being fed and now you are complaining that they are too fat?[/QUOTE]
Having so many friends in the Morgan world with IR horses… It can take very little hay to keep an IR horse fat. I know several with IR who are kept on dirt lots and get maybe 2 flakes (10 pounds?) of hay per day, no grain except maybe a handful to get their meds/supplements into them. A lot of people will use a slow feeder or hay net with tiny holes so the poor things spend more time eating.
There may be ribby mares and babies elsewhere, and as someone else said, Romantic Star looks a bit lean in those photos… not skinny at all, but not with the roundness and “bloom” a mature stallion normally has.
Very sad in any case, and IR is inherited, right?
(ETA: Another thing about IR horses… they can be of normal weight, even a bit thin, and still have that cresty neck. I leased a grade Morgan mare for a while who had the cresty neck and fat pads on her butt, but was not at all fat anywhere else. Just as some people with Type 2 diabetes will be thick around the middle even if they are thin everywhere else.)
[quote=Laurierace;6579757]
WHO CARES!?! If the horses looked like God himself was caring for them on a daily basis I would not do business with her.
Exactly, that’s the bottom line as it pertains to warning others of business dealings.
IMO, the IR discussion was at least educational for other horse owners – and perhaps should move to Horse Care (but there is scads of info there anyway) at this point so as not to derail the original purpose of this thread.
Very sad in any case, and IR is inherited, right?
I don’t think this has been established.
(ETA: Another thing about IR horses… they can be of normal weight, even a bit thin, and still have that cresty neck. I leased a grade Morgan mare for a while who had the cresty neck and fat pads on her butt, but was not at all fat anywhere else.
This is very common.
“Very sad in any case, and IR is inherited, right?”
This has not been proven as far as I know. Genetics may make them “prone”, but not proven.
Its very disturbing to see everyone bantering whether RedWine is IR or not. If he was do you think he would be getting the proper care to offset it??? Of course not. Gray Fox Farms is the same as a puppy mill just with horses. To many horses on one piece of property at her old place and now at the new one. " Puppy Mills" do not care about exercising the animals, providing shelter, safe places to have their litters, proper vet care, clean business practices. These types of people are not right in the head, have no conscience and will continue doing what they do as long as people keep buying and our systems allow them to run business and get away with criminal activities
[QUOTE=daisycutter87;6579841]
I compare his build to this stallion (who i found through a quick google search)
http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com/wbdirnew/han/hn0023/hn0023lg.JPG
I dont consider him fat either…[/QUOTE]
The stallion in your photo is not showing IR signs at all. He is not really fat, but is a heavier old type stallion. Their muscles are bulkier. Red Wine’s bloodlines are a more modern, lighter type horse.
The bottom line here is that Redwine and Romantic Star do not look like they’re owned and managed by ANYONE who has the title of USEF’s Leading Hunter Breeding Breeder.
On the contrary, they look like back yard horses living in back yard conditions.
The photos made me sad as well. Those stallions have done right by JB for many years, and they ought to be kept in better condition (body and grooming) than what the photos depict. Where’s the pride of ownership ?
Laurierace, I know you disagree with this and I understand your point. Yet the condition of those horses is a part of the problem of which this thread is about.
Those horses deserve better. And no one will ever change my mind.
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I actually think his body type is exactly like Rotspon and Rubinstein, and, IMO, neither of those are light or modern as we think of what that means today.
Rotspon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvnt34_RHWA
Rubinstein: http://www.a-1performancesires.com/Rubinstein.htm (scroll down and look at the pic in the bottom right.)
Redwine is certainly heavy/fat, but I think the cresty neck would be there regardless. If you look at his pictures as a youngster, he had already developed the neck and the crest was there even in his under saddle videos. Whether it’s from IR or genetics combined with excess weight is speculation.
