In this world one has to actually pay for things(property, animals, etc.) to own them outright. The mare 100% had a broad ligament bleed. A sizeable one. I can’t comment any further because of on going legal action. However, this is a warning. Whomever claims to own this mare, better be able to produce her original papers for the police. I know only ONE person who can do that.
Papers don’t mean squat. You have to do a lot better than that to prove ownership. I probably have twenty sets of registration papers in my office for horses I do not own anymore.
So we have three parties claiming ownership of Grand Affair:
GFF (annouced purchase of mare in 2009 on COTH, offered for sale 2012)
Kirsten Strain (announced purchase yesterday on Facebook)
Jill Johnson (post 2378)
Anyone else ?
If you think the papers are all that will be used to prove ownership, your sadly mistaken.
[QUOTE=Mardi;6753267]
So we have three parties claiming ownership of Grand Affair:
GFF (annouced purchase of mare in 2009 on COTH, ?[/QUOTE]
Actually, if you read the thread linked to, there is no mention of a purchase, just “lucky to have” and “became available.”
It very well could be that the mare was only leased.
I 100% hope that this Grande 
mare finds her way to her rightful hope and is given the treatment and care she deserves before further harm befalls her.
Perhaps she was sent with the caveat that she was to do ET’s and not carry her own and JB has gone against that stipulation. I for one do not understand risking such a lovely mare when ET’s could be an option for her and it would allow her to produce foals safely.
Breeding her would be like playing roulette each and every time.
The one and only time I leased a horse the leaser sold him to buy crack. I still have the papers as well as the judgement against her. If I knew where he was I would be headed there with a trailer as we speak.
Read the first sentence of post #2472, it sounds like there’s a back story.
But this makes me wonder if for the well-being of the 18-y.o. mare that (according to some statements on this thread) is no longer sound for breeding if HuntersPeak is willing or wants to have the mare back to allow her to retire as she deserves why the ‘new owner’ in Petaluma wouldn’t just give her back? What’s in it for that FOJ in Petaluma to keep an older, unsound mare if a good home with a history with the horse is available elsewhere?
If we cut out 124 pages of back and forth and focus on the well-being of this particular horse doesn’t it seem like this FOJ in Petaluma could just make this one case a simple solution? (Assuming HuntersPeak wants the mare).
Well, seeing as the mare has a 2012 foal at side and is for sale for $18,000 (as stated in Gray Fox Farms Christmas newsletter), one can only assume a buyer would only be spending that kind of money on a working broodmare, not a retired one! :no:
If Grand Affair had a BROAD LIGAMENT RUPTURE at age 12 why was she sold/leased to anyone as a broodmare at age 14/15? She did get loaded on a van by someone in Pa. and sent to Calif. for that purpose. In fact everyone involved was elated at that time and never a mention of the danger to her health…just saying…check the postings on
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?202899-New-Mare-Grand-Affair/page2
Ok now lets get back to the reason for this forum, to get all these horses a safe place to fall.
This whole thing is just ridiculous. If the horse was “stolen” and you have proof, then go get the horse.
Why would you let her be in the wrong hands? you know where she is so pick her up!
The second I found out my leased broodmare was not being taken care of to my standards, I had her picked up.
Stop threatening people on here and go pick up the horse.
Jeese people, it’s not rocket science.
Hope for 2013: Several horses (not all) have been seized from JB and an investigation has been opened, contact:
Michelle Rogers, Marin Humane Society Investigator who has been posting on here. Her number is (415) 506-6236 and email is mrogers@marinhumanesociety.org
To help the horses seized Marin Humane Society is in the process of setting up a donation page for the Burnell horses. Until that time, donations can be made directly to the Marin Humane Society www.marinhumanesociety.org
The Marin County (California) Humane Society is asking anyone who OWNS or has GIFTED a mare or any other horse that is in Jill’s possession to come forward. Information on any horses moved off the property (i.e. hidden) is also needed. Professionals (farriers, vets, haulers) with information about horses in JB’s care can provide information helpful in ID-ing and locating missing/transferred horses. Customers who have purchased an injured, sick or thin animal from Jill please contact Marin Humane Society. The investigation seeks to present the information to a judge as evidence related to civil matters regarding the horses.
This info has also been posted on JB’s Gray Fox Farm facebook page by several posters. Thank you Marin Humane Society!
I gave a substantial donation to Marin County (California) Humane Society and asked that it go towards the care of horses being seized from GFF.
[QUOTE=Justa Bob;6753681]
Hope for 2013: Several horses (not all) have been seized from JB and an investigation has been opened, contact:
Michelle Rogers, Marin Humane Society Investigator who has been posting on here. Her number is (415) 506-6236 and email is mrogers@marinhumanesociety.org
To help the horses seized Marin Humane Society is in the process of setting up a donation page for the Burnell horses. Until that time, donations can be made directly to the Marin Humane Society www.marinhumanesociety.org
The Marin County (California) Humane Society is asking anyone who OWNS or has GIFTED a mare or any other horse that is in Jill’s possession to come forward. Information on any horses moved off the property (esp hidden) is also needed. Customers who have purchased an injured, sick or thin animal from Jill please contact Marin Humane Society. The investigation seeks to present the information to a judge as evidence related to civil matters regarding the horses.
This info has also been posted on JB’s Gray Fox Farm facebook page by several posters. Thank you Marin Humane Society![/QUOTE]
Let me just start off by saying that I know nothing about what is happening with Grand Affair or the parties involved. I should also point out that I am not a lawyer, but as an Equine Appraiser and Equine Expert Witness, I’ve worked on quite a few cases in which something similar has happened. As well, I just finished taking a great seminar on this very subject. These are important facts that ALL sellers need to know.
At the end of the day, possession is 9/10 of the law.
Many sellers do not realize that a Bill of Sale is a legal document that transfers the title of the horse. Once you hand over a bill of sale to a buyer, it IS their horse, regardless of whether they still owe payments or not. One of the biggest disputes all equine lawyers deal with is over transfer of title or ownership of a horse.
If you have sold a horse on payments, DO NOT combine your purchase agreement and bill of sale all into one. Why? Re-read the paragraph above! Because a bill of sale determines title on a horse, even though a buyer may not have finished paying on a horse, if they have a bill of sale on the horse, THEY OWN THE HORSE and therefore can easily dispute any further payments at a later date! …which also means, at the end of the day, it DOES NOT matter who’s name the registration papers are in. Most Equine Breed Registries will tell you that they are not in the business of proving titles. As many people know, especially in the performance world, a horse can change ownership 5 or 6 times with the registration papers never being transfered. It does not mean the last person listed as owner on the registration papers is the legal or rightful owner.
The only way to combat this HUGE, HUGE problem in our industry, is to realize it is important that a purchase agreement or promissory note be drawn up for buyer that is purchasing a horse through payments, and DO NOT EVER give the buyer a signed bill of sale until all pre-sale conditions have been met. As well, it is important to retain a security interest or collateral interest in the horse, otherwise…you DO NOT have the right to repo the horse. Then your only recourse is to sue for damages! Please note that the States of Florida, California and Kentucky have special requirements regarding bill of sales - which is also why it is so important to not just go on the internet and ask someone for a generic promissory note agreement, etc., as most generic contracts are missing crucial elements. It is sometimes worth it’s weight in gold to pay an Equine Lawyer (or a lawyer with a bit of equine knowledge) to draw up your own personal contracts that you can potentially use over and over. If anyone needs a referal to a good Equine Lawyer in their state, email me. 
Also note, in your promissory note or purchase agreement, it is so important to make sure a clause is added stating if the buyer does not finishing paying for the horse, you have the right to come onto their property and remove the horse. You DO NOT have a right, as a matter of law, to go on to someone’s property and seize or repo a horse unless it is agreed up front.
People have a misconception that a Sheriff or the Police will accompany a seller out to pick up their horse. This is a civil matter. The police are NOT going to help you if you don’t have anything in writing or the proper documentation. I know there are lots of shows on TV right now regarding repossession, but it’s important to understand that they are not just showing up on someone’s property and taking their vehicle just because. They have already gone through the courts and have the proper documentation to back them up.
Hopefully, that answers your questions regarding, “why can’t you just go and pick up the horse”. Simply put…it just isn’t that simple! :no:
If more people would realize stuff like this, as well as always making sure any deals are done by contracts and not just a hand shake and a hope, you would be putting equine lawyers and people like myself (equine appraisers/equine expert witnesses) out of business!
Great information Daventry! Thanks!
Re: Grand Affair
I don’t know anything regarding the ownership of the horse but a quick search of USEF shows that the last recorded USEF owner was:
[TABLE=“class: searchresultsbody, width: 550”]
[TR]
[TD=“bgcolor: #eff3fb”]GRAND AFFAIR (104664)
Foal Date: 5/2/1995
Breed: OLDENBURG
Color: Chestnut Sex: M
Sire: GRANDE SABER
Dam: AL’S VALENTINE
Membership Type: LifeHorse Report
[/TD]
[TD=“width: 100, bgcolor: #eff3fb”]SUSANNE BIENENSTOCK - SOLD
POUND RIDGE, NY
Owner ID:176931
Active Member - Senior
Breeder: WATT, JOAN[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
As it is marked SOLD, that means that owner notified USEF that they sold the horse and the new owner has not transferred the horse into their name.
I don’t know of any court that would not go by a bill of sale for a horse to determine the current owner. Just because you have papers doesn’t mean you are still the legal owner. If you signed a bill of sale, you are no longer the owner, no matter what the papers say, or who has the papers.
What I find interesting is that the new owner never transferred the ownership for such well known mare that was continued to be used for breeding. Regardless of why they didn’t transfer the ownership, the previous owner did notify USEF that they sold the horse. That implies that at one time they were the legal owner of the horse, and I am guessing that is not the person that has the “papers” based on the names that have been given so far.
Regardless of the ownership - I truly hope the mare lands on her feet in a good caring home.
Well said, Daventry. I am an equine lawyer and she is correct in what she rights - for most states. All states have their own quirks, though, so checking with a lawyer in your state to assist in the writing of the purchase agreement and the bill of sale is important.
What is DEAD ACCURATE is that people should NEVER do a sale or lease without a written and signed agreement that was prepared or at least reviewed first by a lawyer in the appropriate state.
The plot thickens
In the case of one buying a foal from JB on payment, and ASSUMING there was a Bill of Sale, and the foal was then said to be sold to another party by JB (for supposed lack of payments), how does that work? Again, assuming both parties have a Bill of Sale…who is the rightful owner?
I have no dog in this, I’m just curious as this has all become so fascinating…
Sorry Folks…a correction was posted on FB
Sorry that was a bleed in her broad ligament NOT a rupture.
Evidently Grand Affair had a year’s rest. Was bred for one last time under the direction of a repro vet. As some astute COTHers here noted… ET was the only future option for Grand Affair.
I might add the article in the Chronicle about Grand Affair should shed some light on her career for those who are not sure about her ownership. The Posh Trophy of Upperville is retained by former owners of Grand Affair - Symmetry Ranch
Sorry for the snarks out there… the plot is not so very thick. The link to another thread posted by the “buyer” reads she’s the ONLY one who says the mare was SOLD.
