[QUOTE=Daventry;6776615]
Though, wasn’t it Jill Burnell that said he was injured the day before the seizure…if that is the truth. I wonder if the vets at UC Davis can determine how old the injury actually may be?[/QUOTE]
Yes you can roughly date injuries, by the degree of granulation tissue formed during the healing process for skin issues and the degree of callus formation on any fractured bones. But even non-medical personnel know fresh wounds when they see them.
You know, I think this thread is like a black hole… it just sucks people in. Those of us who have been around the block can see this for what it is… it’s like watching a train careening towards a brick wall in slow motion. I applaud those who’ve put themselves out trying to help.
Cartier - my thoughts exactly - and i wonder what it is about human nature that makes folks behave so?
[QUOTE=horsenut93136;6776613]
wow 10 likes for pony’s post 
makes me sad that I feel like some would still rather see every mare/stallion/baby reach a point where they had to be seized rather than letting them get out of a bad situation. Knowing that in the end there is a possibility the horses will still land with Jill because it is not 100% certain she will lose.[/QUOTE]
No, what needs to happen is the horses need to be taken by Marin County, who have a very good reputation as it stands, who now have a darn good fundraiser behind them to help care for these animals. And who are the officials with the legal know how, and resources to care for them. Can you say the same? Who are you in this? Are you advocating we hand the horses over to any joe schmoe who offers? Because there may be no legal recourse for those individuals if things aren’t done right. I understand your concern, but randomly scattering the horses to various “good homes” won’t do them any good if they end up in the hands of the same shady business woman 6 months from now, will it?
i can understand the part about questioning things, but, Ronda has not been accused of shady business dealings, neglecting horses etc. so really seems tacky to drag her into it.
Ronda hasn’t been accused until now. When you choose to do business with dirty business people, that’s your choice, but one should probably consider the reputation she may get in doing so. Guilt by association, and she is associated in a gross way. She’s done nothing to defend or address the condition of RS, if I were her, I’d be jumping up and down in name of the horse (if that’s what she’s all about…right? The safety of the horse?) but she hasn’t so much said a word. Not ONE to the safety and wellbeing of that animal. If this was for the good of the animal, the huge pregnant mares, the elderly, THEY would be the first out of there. For those screaming about the other stallion owners rolling in this glory…what does Ms. Stavisky have to gain from removing RS from Jill? Hmmmmm. Gosh. Hard to ponder.
HA! It appears to me the only feed money doing any good sits on a plate in front of that big screen tv. Pictures don’t lie, do they.
ponyponyponi :yes: good post :yes:
We seem to have a sudden infestation of newbies :sigh:
[QUOTE=mbm;6776565]
also, re: purchasing horses from JB - i dont quite understand the angst here - hopefully any $$ (if there is any) going to JB will pay for feed for the horses - which is a good thing…
Not given her track record.
it is not good for the horse to have to be seized and then put in foster care etc… having been around there are good places for horses to land, but there are also not so good places - and since there are so many - it seems to me better to work this all out with the horses remaining where they are as long as they are being fed/watered/etc.
I, for a fact, know that the people, around here, that are approved fosterers have wonderful conditions, care, facilities. Let’s not confusing this with Child Protective Services, as seen on TV.
eta: i do not get this attack of folks wanting to help the horses by purchasing them? this is going to make it very difficult to re-home them if folks are afraid to take them for fear of rumors of “helping JIll”[/QUOTE]
Baloney.
what a strange twist this thread has taken.
[QUOTE=mbm;6776665]
Cartier - my thoughts exactly - and i wonder what it is about human nature that makes folks behave so?[/QUOTE]What I see in most of these posts is that people care a great deal about this mess, they feel they were helpless to prevent it… they want to help if possible and they want it all exposed to “the bright cleansing light of day,” so that we can see what happened, what went wrong and prevent this from happening again. With very few exceptions, I do not see malice… rather, I see genuine concern, being expressed different ways, by different people. I think one thing we can all take away from this is that it is probably not a good idea for one person to collect large numbers of horses, because it’s easy to get in over your head, fast. That one thing, in and of itself, should raise interest or concern.
[QUOTE=mbm;6776589]
ok, to be blunt: 30 horses is a lot of horses to foster. 30 horses that includes stallions, mares ready to foal and yearlings, is even harder.
Given some of the facilities we have here are not really equipped to handle theses kinds of horses i worry about the horses going to conditions/experiences that are no better than what they have now… but folks will be happy becuase they were “rescued” … that is my concern… at least where they are now is in the eye of a very public situation…
locals will know what i am talking about.[/QUOTE]
You honestly think the MHS is going to “park” them on some other vacant lot with another “Jill” in charge? Pleeeease.
This area is filled with professionals, both very private and public, with the skills and knowledge of how to care for these horses.
Romantic Star is a lovely stallion and great producer who deserves a special home. I hope that he is recovering and will be able to resume his breeding career.
We had over 70 neglected horses seized in my county last year, many of whom are still being cared for by the local humane society at a cost of $400/horse/mo. Any horses that can be legitimately sold or adopted prior to seizure will mean that the MHS will be able to conserve its resources and better care for any remaining horses. I hope for the sake of the animals that this gets resolved quickly.
Okay ponyponyponi, I fully admit that I also previously considered the same as you’ve now put down on paper here. It’s human nature to speculate however for me there’s too many loose ends without real (or true) information coming to light … yet; and I do think we should all have a bit of patience and see this thing through. Marin Humane Society has their finger on the pulse so they’re going to be keeping a very close eye on these horses and I have faith in them operating professionally and swiftly should the need arise to seize any more horses. I personally think that anyone seen buying horses from Jill for whatever reason are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can’t do right for doing wrong. The same goes for any mare owners with horses stuck there, well if my mares happened to be there, I personally would find a way to get over to California and I would, without hesitation, remove all of my horses from that place. Probably not the “right” thing to do under the circumstances, but my emotional attachment to my animals would take over.
I don’t know what the answer is, and I’m not disagreeing with a lot of what you’ve said; I do think we need to all have a little more patience and let the powers that be (MHS) deal with the immediate issues.
Please spread the word: Leg Up- Marin County auction and donations
Thank you for mentioning the fundraising. Please spread the word in your local horse community. If we all pitch a little, we can make all the difference. Its the soon-to-foal mares that need the safety net we can provide. Marin is watching - and we can support them.
If anyone has a few extra dollars, COTHers have been asked by the Harrisburg Humane Society to help the 26 Morgans seized, which is outstripping the HHS capacity for funds. Not to divert, but the situation is very serious and the first news report is now out.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?383899-Morgan-horses-dead-amp-dying-in-Central-PA-UPDATE-Supplies-needed-post-47/page3&highlight=morgan
Waiting for real news on the Marin situation is difficult - but the power of COTHers to make right is awesome. We have that to work with. Who doesn’t love COTH magic?
Editing out almost all of my post. A Cother pointed out it may be construed as tortious interference. I’m thinking my post is one of many that could be considered that, but I’m happy to oblige and do what is in my power to help and not hurt a cause I’m concerned about.
Here’s what I’m not editing out:
… The best way to help is by being there for the fallout. Donating to the humane society, fostering horses, spreading the word for others to donate and foster. Donate to Marin. If you live in the area and can, foster horses. If you live in the area and can’t foster a horse, free up some Marin resources and adopt or foster and dog or cat. When this whole ordeal is wrapping up, if it’s needed, adopt the horses. …
For those of you that want to help horses, please read this thread:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?383899-Morgan-horses-dead-amp-dying-in-Central-PA-UPDATE-Supplies-needed-post-47&p=6776600#post6776600
It shows what can truly happen and makes the JB case seem like nothing (excluding all her fraud issues).
This horses had NO ONE to come to their defense and have now all been removed to better places, but they will need help!
I hope some of you will reach out and do what you can.
[QUOTE=ponyponyponi;6776507]
And you know this how? What source you been getting YOUR information from?? Your posts are suspect. As I recall, you also sang praises about Jill’s place when you were out there last spring. Methinks perhaps it is self-ingratiating. A way to hopefully make sure you were one that “did” get paid? Hmmm? No, lets DO keep the subject of Ronda at the forefront of this discussion right where she probably belongs.
Here’s how I see it.
There are LOTS of people that are doing everything in their power to help rectify this mess NONE of which is their creation. There is an entire AUCTION dedicated to helping the cause and as far as I can tell, I don’t see ANY of Rising Star’s stallions donated to that. How odd? However, RSF has “heroically” laughs sarcastically swooped in and “rescued” Romantic Star from the evil hands of Jill Burnell/GFF. Gimme a break. Oh but wait - she’s also represented by the SAME attorney as JB/GFF. Hmmm. I’m unsure as to why that should be disregarded as fact. WHY is that, do you think? Birds of a feather? And then she has the audacity to whine about not getting updates on Romantic Star from the Marin Humane Society. 
REALLY?? Why don’t you call the vet that is allegedly claiming that Jill Burnell is taking GREAT care of those horses? Presumably they are also supporting the attorney in the attorney’s claim that a stallion injured on one day can drop to a body score of ??? - apparently low enough to be seized - the next as a result of the injury! Lets not forget that please, the stallion apparently went from A HEALTHY CONDITION TO NEEDING TO BE SEIZED IN 10 DAYS! :eek: In fact, I’d like to get the name of that vet so that I can make sure that no one “I” know makes the mistake of using his/her services if it turns out to be more than alleged. Surely someone can provide us with that name? (off to go search through court documents) - Oh! Here we go. Dr. Cheryl Ellis, Foothill Mobile Veterinary Service 3281 Luneman Road, Placerville, CA 95667 - 530-622-0174. I certainly think she deserves some of those well deserved accolades. <rolling eyes>. Obviously another “hero” willing to go the extra mile for who? I have been loosely following this saga, but I saw that Rising Star Farm (Yep. Right there on Ms. Stavisky’s Facebook wall!) had recently gotten a health cert for Romantic Star to be shipped, so his body condition must have been deemed suitable for the travel and yet suitable to be seized by a Humane Society and not returned by order of the Court when a writ is served? I think that says something about the stallion’s condition and perhaps the alleged “health” certificate. Hopefully if that is the case, the signatory on the health certificate will also be investigated.
But, let’s look at this a little bit further. By purchasing Romantic Star, she has essentially put funds into the “wonderful” JB/GFF’s coffers and thereby assists the woman in continuing on her way of shouldering people out of money, foals, mares, breedings, etc. Yeah…Ronda is a “wonderful” person, isn’t she. AMAZING! Worthy of all your glowing remarks. More like self-serving, self-agrandizing, conceited, self-absorbed and certainly villainous in this situation. She’s lost ALL credibility in my eyes and I will question anyone that sees her as a hero in this. Who is she helping here? Really? The horses? The humane society? Jill Burnell? Ronda Stavisky? Who? Shame on her and anyone else attempting to sweep any of this under the rug for the sake of keeping Jill the star of this disgusting mess. She’s as much a problem here as Jill.:mad:
The actual heroes in all of this are those people that HAVE gone above and beyond in trying to make this right. Anyone who has donated a penny, made suggestions, offered breeding services. The ones that get nothing out of this. Ronda Stavisky is NOT one of those and indeed has compounded the problem by essentially enabling and assisting the biggest crook of them all in this. Jill Burnell. Assisting her, sharing her same council, it stinks and you all know it.
Honesty doesn’t always pay, but dishonesty always costs! 
And I think in this particular situation, it’s cost Ms. Stavisky her reputation - as it should. I know I certainly won’t be sending ANY of my mares or business her way and I’ll make sure to suggest that there are other considerably more reputable stallion owners who have shown their true colors in this situation. Anyone looking for a breeding to a wonderful stallion, I would suggest that they look at the list of stallion owners that “have” contributed to the auction for Leg-Up and throw their resources to those that are proving that they are an asset to the sporthorse industry. Not some blood sucking leech that sucks the life force out of all that is right and good.[/QUOTE]
Let’s see. I have been posting with my true identity, and honestly, since 2000. I am a well known person by many people ( not a brag, just a fact). YOU are a brand new alter, with admittedly no knowledge of the situation. Hmmmm, who has the credibility here?
Nowhere did I ever post “glowingly” about what I observed of Jill’s previous farm. I posted what I observed from being there for roughly two hours. Find the post and reread it.
I have no interest in trying to pursue Jill for the small amount she owes us. We have the horse.
How I know what I know is none of your business. The people here who know and trust me will take my word. You and Stella M who seem to only want to further drag the situation down, and tear down the reputation of an honorable stallion owner? I couldn’t give a damn what you think.
[QUOTE=ponyponyponi;6776668]
No, what needs to happen is the horses need to be taken by Marin County, who have a very good reputation as it stands, who now have a darn good fundraiser behind them to help care for these animals. And who are the officials with the legal know how, and resources to care for them. Can you say the same? Who are you in this? Are you advocating we hand the horses over to any joe schmoe who offers? Because there may be no legal recourse for those individuals if things aren’t done right. I understand your concern, but randomly scattering the horses to various “good homes” won’t do them any good if they end up in the hands of the same shady business woman 6 months from now, will it?
Ronda hasn’t been accused until now. When you choose to do business with dirty business people, that’s your choice, but one should probably consider the reputation she may get in doing so. Guilt by association, and she is associated in a gross way. She’s done nothing to defend or address the condition of RS, if I were her, I’d be jumping up and down in name of the horse (if that’s what she’s all about…right? The safety of the horse?) but she hasn’t so much said a word. Not ONE to the safety and wellbeing of that animal. If this was for the good of the animal, the huge pregnant mares, the elderly, THEY would be the first out of there. For those screaming about the other stallion owners rolling in this glory…what does Ms. Stavisky have to gain from removing RS from Jill? Hmmmmm. Gosh. Hard to ponder.
HA! It appears to me the only feed money doing any good sits on a plate in front of that big screen tv. Pictures don’t lie, do they.[/QUOTE]
Why in the WORLD would Ronda or anyone else want to come on here to be attacked by the ever increasing lunacy that is this thread? No one in their right mind would do that.
Lets turn this thread around and make it a productive one once again. If you really want to help; donate funds, any supplies, and participate in the Auction to help Marin County stand a chance against Burnell in court and to further help them care for the horse’s that Jill was not caring for. Sitting here bickering and making odd claims isn’t helping anyone. I understand, we’d all like to know what’s going on but give Marin County some time to develop a good case that will stand a chance in court- we’d ALL like to see them succeed!
Let’s be realistic for a moment and say that if it was not for this thread and the extremely far reach it has had, it is highly unlikely that Marin Country would be involved and attempting to put a stop to Jill and her ongoing madness, fraudulent behavior, and her complete lack of care and compassion for the animals she has put in her care. Despite the moments where this thread has gone off-track, despite the minor “melt-downs” throughout, this thread on Chronicle of the Horse has done great things.
The original person, a relative of Jills, voluntarily came on these boards with photographic evidence to share with the world. Proof, once and for all, how shady the business really was; after her website and for-sale photos painted this picture that everyting was well and dandy and all the horses were living in proper conditions and semen was being processed in proper conditions. If it wasn’t for the quick thinking on the original poster’s behalf, it’s unlikely that Jill would even be in the middle of an investigation right now. Hundreds of people involved in the hunter/jumper and show world have been crying out for help in the matters of Gray Fox Farm and Jill Burnell for years now; and FINALLY a step has been taken in the right direction
I’ve sat here and witnessed an amazing amount of generosity and people organizing and fighting for the common good of those who have been affected by Jills fraudulent behavior. The horse industry here in America is well aware of what she has been doing (and getting away with it!) for the past several years…proof of that acknowledgement is in the donations of semen, items, and Stallion services for the auctions to benefit Marin County and the court case they have against her. Proof is in the numerous Stallion owners who have stood up and donated their stallion and a breeding to those who were left out of a lot money, out of a breeding and out in the cold by Gray Fox Farm
Everyone is so quick to jump on the keyboard and click the “Post Reply” button. I admit; I’ve been there too. Sit back, relax, and donate your time, funds and supplies if Marin County needs it. That’s about the only thing you can personal do to help at this point. Sitting on the forum bickering and sending this thread off course is not helping anyone. Let’s keep this thread a productive one; a thread that is going to aid in the continued help for these horses and those who have been burned by Gray Fox Farm.
Pretty important correction…
The articles have been corrected to reflect that Jill Burnell and Ronda Stavisky are not represented by the same attorney. That was in one of the articles early on, but apparently is not true.
I’d be surprised if Rising Star didn’t retain counsel of her own however, and they have instructed her to not discuss the matter. That’s usually how things like that go. Even if she didn’t hire an attorney or the attorney didn’t say not to talk about it, what good would it do? She doesn’t really have any obligation to COTH to talk about the particulars of the sale. I’m sure it will all come out in the end anyway.
Since it was a quote that came from Ms. Weems (that Ronda Stavinsky is/was also a client), is there any recourse there on her? Say…I don’t know, something akin to perjury?
Its an honest question. I really don’t know. The only thin on that I DO know is the reporters would not have been able to quote Weems without an actual quote.
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