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Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

Sport Horse Breeding
#541

Hey Eagle- looks like I owe you an apology for calling you an Alter or Jill. Sorry! :cry:

While I feel like we can agree that those pictures do not show animal abuse (albeit overcrowding)

We can agree that her business practices can sometimes be…illegal, right?

Can we all calm down a bit (Including those on GFF side)

I’d like to keep this thread open for possible new clients of GFF- so they can learn the truth. Some people HAVE been shafted, for sure that is a fact. Some people have had normal experiences, that it ALSO true.

We don’t know anything about the OP, except she posted pictures of Jill Burnell’s house (positively ID’d) with a VERY questionable lab for her business. This should raise red flags for potential customers, especially those who use Redwine.

There is no denying, her stock produces nice HB horses. This is not to say she produces the best HUNTERS.

The purpose of this thread is to FOREWARN possible Gray Fox Farm customers and those who are thinking of selling to Gray Fox Farm to tread carefully.

I think this thread can be extremely helpful if kept at the top. Please, let’s all take a deep breath and calm down, for the benefits of this thread, I know I have.

#542

[QUOTE=Daventry;6510443]
I’m not positive, but I think I may have just wet my pants. And Simkie, I’m not calling the next one. I’m going to tag that off to someone else. I’m supposed to be outside cutting the grass! :lol:[/QUOTE]

Daventry, that’s just tears from laughing running down your legs.

#543

[QUOTE=kdow;6510685]

(Okay, I will grant that if you came at the right moment you MIGHT have been able to find a single poo from the pet rats that they’d turfed out of their cage along with bits of bedding that they decided they didn’t like. But you know what I did when they did that? I picked the mess up as soon as I had a second to do so! It was not hard.)[/QUOTE]

/snickering about the rats. I have 'em too, and yes, they like to give me more chores to do :slight_smile: (To anyone who’s horrified, seriously, they’re great pets, kind of like tiny dogs.)

Anyway… as far as this thread goes, thanks for the entertainment during a workday that included a deadly boring hours-long task. And I hope JB is Done Done Done as a breeder and businesswoman. [edit]

#544

[QUOTE=ReSomething;6510681]

There is a question though - how many transactions were Paypal or cc, and how long does one have to file a complaint? Were people strung along till the time was over? And regardless if the customer got their money back, the bank probably didn’t see any money, so sorry, there’s still theft there.[/QUOTE]

45 days for Paypal, 6 mos for CC…

#545

[QUOTE=eagle74;6510549]

Why do you care, are you owed money? Then have your day in court and get it settled! [/QUOTE]

Mike, I’m not going to attack you. As I have said, in my revised post, I trust Daventry; and I am going to assume you were well intentioned - even if a literal ignorant about Jill Burnell’s litany of past bad behavior.

As for motivation -
My grandma got it into my head that right is right and wrong is wrong; and it doesn’t matter if “everybody” is doing the wrong thing or if there’s nobody looking – still wrong. And, she thought that taking advantage was one of the worst sins – with standing by silently and allowing somebody to be taken advantage of being the worst.

And, this -

“An old man had a habit of early morning walks on the beach. One day, after a storm, he saw a human figure in the distance moving like a dancer. As he came closer he saw that it was a young woman and she was not dancing but was reaching down to the sand, picking up a starfish and very gently throwing them into the ocean.
“Young lady,” he asked, “Why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?”
“The sun is up, and the tide is going out, and if I do not throw them in they will die.”
“But young lady, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and starfish all along it? You cannot possibly make a difference.”
The young woman listened politely, paused and then bent down, picked up another starfish and threw it into the sea, past the breaking waves,
saying, “It made a difference for that one.”
The old man looked at the young woman inquisitively and thought about what she had done. Inspired, he joined her in throwing starfish back into the sea. Soon others joined, and all the starfish were saved”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Thrower

#546

So are you saying that the brother and sister-in-law came over the night before, fed the dog a whole lot of Taco Bell, came back the next morning and squeezed the crap out of him, then choked the chickens, then grabbed the camera and snapped a bunch of photos and then stole the camera?

Sorry, I’m just trying to get all of the facts straight.

#547

[QUOTE=Noms;6510581]
Oh jeeze, you don’t know anything about collecting and processing semen, do you.[/QUOTE]

Now, Noms, you do NOT know that to be true for a fact. Assuming Mike is a normal, healthy male; he’s got at least some semen experience.
:smiley:

#548

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6510619]
Suffice it to say her sterile technique - isn’t.[/QUOTE]

Does anyone who processes semen do so in a truly sterile environment? I’m asking this because I’m having a hard time figuring out how anyone can COLLECT semen in a sterile environment. Sterile technique is completely useless unless you are starting with truly sterile product. And keeping up a truly sterile environment is time consuming and expensive, and therefore a total waste of time, effort, and money if you are going to bring a non-sterile product into your sterile environment.

Having said that, I get that the pictures are horrifying, and I assume that most stallion owners (as in all but the subject stallion owner, I hope) don’t process semen in the conditions pictured here. But I’m guessing that the word “sterile” is being thrown around here inappropriately.

I do hope that word will spread to the point where people will stop doing business with this person, and that the offspring of her stallions that are already on the ground go on to do great things.

#549

[QUOTE=Noms;6510655]
And I never knew hormones could spew. Huh.[/QUOTE]
^ Guy thing, I guess.

#550

[QUOTE=Daventry;6510741]
So are you saying that the brother and sister-in-law came over the night before, fed the dog a whole lot of Taco Bell, came back the next morning and squeezed the crap out of him, then choked the chickens, then grabbed the camera and snapped a bunch of photos and then stole the camera?

Sorry, I’m just trying to get all of the facts straight.[/QUOTE]

Yep, that is exaaaactly what I got out of the story too :lol: Those (I am now positive) are the cold hard FACTS. Oh, and in all of her confusion she forgot to finish building the horses their shelter.

#551

[QUOTE=quietann;6510720]
/snickering about the rats. I have 'em too, and yes, they like to give me more chores to do :slight_smile: (To anyone who’s horrified, seriously, they’re great pets, kind of like tiny dogs.)[/QUOTE]

They are, imo, one of the better small caged pets one can have if you want something social and somewhat cuddly. (We had rats because we wanted a dog but it wasn’t practical with the risk of sudden hospital stays and things. Rats fare far better than a dog being checked on every couple of days as long as you give them plenty of food and water and have a nice big cage.)

Also, I can make this related to the thread! One of my rats would’ve been horrified at the photos of the house. As soon as he worked out I was cleaning up in/near the cage (just picking up stray bits, not a full cleaning) he’d rush to the nearest pile of bedding and start sorting through like mad and push all the stuff that was too dirty for his approval into a pile for me to throw away. It was hilarious.

Maybe I should’ve tried marketing him as a maid service… (ETA: He definitely would’ve made sure at least the “lab” area stayed a lot cleaner, that’s for sure.)

#552

No…collecting semen isn’t a “sterile” process. Horses are NOT known for their personal hygiene. With that said, semen “is” sterile, so you do EVERYTHING possible to attempt to maintain that. Probably more appropriate terminology would be aseptic technique. You wash the penis in order to avoid debris and surface pathogens getting into the AV and the ejaculate. You have a filter in place to avoid any dirt or smegma that you didn’t wash off from getting into the collection. You use sterile equipment for everything, including centrifuge tubes, etc. Even doing surgery is not 100% sterile. You do EVERYTHING possible to avoid introducing any pathogens or contaminants. Dirt and debris lying around, dirty counters, garbage not thrown out, perishable items not removed from the area, etc., is not conducive to even an aseptic environment.

Having said that, I get that the pictures are horrifying, and I assume that most stallion owners (as in all but the subject stallion owner, I hope) don’t process semen in the conditions pictured here. But I’m guessing that the word “sterile” is being thrown around here inappropriately.

Yes and no. All that debris, dirt, dust, etc., creates the very real possibility of introducing pathogens to the ejaculate. If she’s not processing the semen correctly, you as a mare owner, stand the very real possibility of introducing those pathogens to your mare. Let’s look at it this way. Would you prepare dinner in that environment? If not, why not? And if you’re comfortable preparing it in that type of environment, please don’t invite me over for dinner ;).

#553

Jill’s Horses Are Not Abused, Underfed, or Neglected

I spoke to Jill’s brother yesterday and he confirmed that all of her horses have been moved to the new property. There aren’t any man made shelters there yet, but he did confirm that it’s 40 acres of pasture. I purchased a colt from Jill in 2008 and had a good experience; she returned my calls promptly, the colt arrived in good weight after a trip across coasts, and I was very happy with him.

Since then, I discovered one of these threads and honestly thought it was a bunch of dramatic, jealous horse people. I’ve competed on the A circuit in the hunters for over 25 years and know that horse people can be a crazy bunch that tend to not have a life in the ‘real world’. BUT, I do now believe that many people have been wronged by Jill as no other breeder has consistently been bashed on here and there are just too many similar stories for it all to be a fabrication.

Now, why did I speak to her brother? I purchased a filly from her this year BEFORE I realized the severity of the shady activity and reached out to the SIL over PM with my number. Her brother, Craig Fury, called me last night and he is obviously upset with Jill for many reasons, but he did confirm that the horses are not under weight or abused and they have been moved to 40 acres of pasture. My Redwine colt was one of the nicest horses I’ve ever seen and is now successfully showing in the baby greens and winning with his new owner. So, I wanted to purchase another young horse bred by Redwine and the nicest one I found belonged to Jill. At this point, my biggest concern is the health of my filly under Jill’s care until I ship her to the east coast in a few months.

Due to this concern, I also spoke to Jill’s vet, Dr. Steve Wood yesterday. He was unaware of anyone being upset with bad business dealings, but did admit that she is a bit disorganized. However, he said, “I would not and will not ever provide veterinary services for a breeder that neglects or abuses horses and I will stand behind that legally.” So, I am not supporting Jill’s code of ethics or business dealings in any way, but I have had two positive experiences with her and have had it confirmed by a vet and her brother that the horses are not being abused, neglected, or under fed.

Again, I truly do sympathize with the individuals that have had negative experiences, but I did want to set the facts straights on the care of her horses.

#554

Alters are coming out of the woodwork, I can’t keep up.

#555

The issue is that it is a matter of time until they are neglected, it is inevitable IMO. She is burning the candle at both ends here (and look at her home) and owes money to her vet and feed store. Eventually where will she get her feed? She has so many horses that if she encounters a situation where she cannot rob Peter to pay Paul, she will hit rock bottom immediately. I don’t think anyone is saying her horses are dieing out there, they are not. And if minimum standards of care are met (maybe not mine, but legally) I am the last to claim neglect.

But her having judgements and warrants and not submitting breeding certificates is not a work of fiction, it is fact. Her house of cards will crumble at some point and the animals will inevitably suffer. Yet instead of fixing her situation, she purchases more mares etc.

As far as leading the Hunter Breeding rankings… the woman who embezzled all that $$$ from that town (Rita Cromwell?) was a leading owner for AQHA… does that automatically mean they are ethical people? No.

#556

Seriously cheek? After all this you still are going to say that anyone with a positive experience is an alter?

#557

And tango does it really sound like her vet has a problem with her. Facts stick to facts. A couple have.

#558

[QUOTE=magicteetango;6510832]
As far as leading the Hunter Breeding rankings… the woman who embezzled all that $$$ from that town (Rita Cromwell?) was a leading owner for AQHA… does that automatically mean they are ethical people? No.[/QUOTE]

Rita Crundwell. And that is a fascinating story; she kept it up for decades…

#559

Roy, I doubt the vet she owes $$$ to is her current vet. Think on it, I am sure Petaluma has a few vets…

#560

[QUOTE=RoyParker;6510833]
Seriously cheek? After all this you still are going to say that anyone with a positive experience is an alter?[/QUOTE]

Newbies popping up for the first time in full support, something stinks & I don’t think it’s just the turds.

,

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