Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[rodawn]

Yvonne - you and your husband need to know you could be in for some seriously turbulent times. I wish you all the very, very best. Through it all, keep yourselves grounded and just be thankful you got your parents out of there. Thank you for the information. Again, I hope you are able to get Jill the help she needs. It’s a long road in helping people like this, they tend to be very resistant, sometimes emotionally aggressive, sometimes even physically aggressive, when their hoarding and other issues are starting to be addressed. Get help with professionals as there are many programs of assistance. The first step could be discussing things with your physician to get things going medically. The other is social services, City or County services and also animal assistance services. You have an ENORMOUS task on your shoulders and I send my prayers your way. Keep your chin up and stay strong to each other.

Start by having a family meeting and discuss as a family where your action needs to go, and together as a family, how much action to take.

From there, you can enlist the help of medical services and police services to carry out the medical services plan.

I work in medicine. Here in Alberta, the Mental Services Act allows for serious mental illness patients to be detained on a Form 10 so they can be restrained and brought to medical attention at the ER - The Form 10 is usually engaged by the Police who provide transport. From there, the ER physician assesses them and may begin proceedings for a Form 1. A further Form is filled out once Psychiatric services have been called in for further assessment and the Psychiatrist decides whether the patient is at risk of harm to self or others, or mentally deranged (whether temporarily or permanently) enough to not be capable of making decisions for themselves. Two psychiatrists are needed to sign off on a Detainment Form so that the patient cannot legally leave psychiatric treatment - they essentially become an involuntary patient. If the psychiatrists do not think things are serious enough for detainment, the patient can be kept as a voluntary patient (meaning they can leave if they want) especially if the psychiatrists are able to convince the patient they should make the right decision and “volunteer” to stay to get treatment.

This is a place to start with your medical doctor and he/she can start the ball rolling as according to the Mental Health Act in California which probably has slightly different terminology than up here in Alberta. I just gave you this information to help you have a place to start, should your family decide to engage in this.

[3Dogs]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6506745]
I am once again thanking my lucky stars for my amazing filly and for my amazing luck in not getting caught up in this mess. I too hope she gets the help she needs and her parents are in a better place.[/QUOTE]

Yes!! you and others have some truly lovely get from her stallions and those of you who did not get caught up in the “mess” lucky indeed and in no way should feel touched by the debacle!

Others not so “lucky” and then there was the “posse” who slammed anyone bringing up the “problems”. …many of course Jill herself in “alter” mode!

[yeskatboxxx]

At this point, we are just trying to bring awareness to anyone with a horse in her care, and anyone who may be getting ready to do business with her in some form. The pictures we’ll be taking this week should help with that.

[Laurierace]

Best of luck to you with your efforts, this has to be very hard on the whole family. Jingles.

[JanM]

Rodawn-I’m glad there are ways to help people in Canada who live in conditions like this, but in the U.S. there’s very little that can be done. Unless someone is a threat to themselves and others there is little that can be done. Also, because of privacy and other laws many times the only thing that can be done is legal action by codes enforcement or humane law enforcement.

From my watching of Hoarders type shows, and the people I have suspected were hoarders (it is estimated that 1 in 25 households are hoarders), there is little hope that someone will accept a clean up, and keep things that way. I have also read some articles and one book (by Matt Paxton, one of the extreme cleaning experts on Hoarders on A&E) and there is little chance of permanent change. Virtually all of the hoarders I have heard about keep going forever, and in spite of repeated cleanups by family or others, things go right back a total pile of garbage in no time. I don’t feel sorry for the hoarders, but the other people (like the parents) who are forced to live like this through no fault of their own. Children and animals that are kept prisoner in these conditions need to be rescued, and many times they don’t seem to be.

[rodawn]

I can’t stand the A&E hoarding shows. It does little to HELP the people. This is a very serious mental illness. Forcing a cleanup, even by expert cleaning personnel, does not effect change, not even close and even those people have to admit they have a very significant failure rate.

These people need critical care psychiatric help, most times medication, and therapeutic behavioral change management. They need medical professional help. And even in the USA there is medical help for them, but most people do not know how to get it started. Which is why I suggested they speak to their family physician. Hoarding is a sign of mental disarray and disorganization. Disorganization in the medical term is the inability to keep their mental thoughts logical, linear or goal directed. It impacts every aspect of their lives and commonly presents in bipolar, schizophrenia, or severe chronic depression.

The only people who can force medical help on an individual are the people directly in her immediate family - her husband, her brother, etc.

[Kyzteke]

@ise@ssl;6506687

KYZTEKE - you posted this isn’t a place for an 80 year old woman?
Are you kidding??? This isn’a a place for anyone of any age. It’s disgusting and gross.

Let me put it this way: I am not a big believer in the Nanny State and that others can make better decisions.

But as a home health nurse in a relatively poor area, I’ve seen homes just as bad…maybe one or two even worse…

Those who WANT to live that way or don’t seem to care, I would not bother them unless they are indangering their health (for instance, we have had welfare people pull the elderly o/o their own homes when they had festering legs sores from diabetes, etc.

And if they were hoarding animals, yes. But some of these people had 1-2 small animals who were healthy and well-fed, but the folks really weren’t able to let them out enough or clean up or whatever. You have to weigh what is TRULY the best thing for all concerned and it can get complicated.

What if no other home come available for these 1-2 dogs/cats (in my example)? A 8-10 yr old dog who has lived like this for years is going to freak out at a new environment, even a foster one. And the person left alone is going to lose a friend.

So perhaps a better solution would be to find a helper for these folks to keep up the pet care.

Obviously, none of this applies to Jill, who is in her 50’s, correct?

I just wanted to say, yeah, that house sucks, but if just Jill wanted to live there, I’d leave her be.

[kdow]

[QUOTE=rodawn;6506804]
I can’t stand the A&E hoarding shows. It does little to HELP the people. This is a very serious mental illness. Forcing a cleanup, even by expert cleaning personnel, does not effect change, not even close and even those people have to admit they have a very significant failure rate.[/QUOTE]

At one point something I read thought that at least some types of hoarding behavior actually come down to a type of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Is that still a theory, anyone know?

(I don’t like the shows either, I think they’re taking advantage of people for Drama.)

[Laurierace]

Jill was ran off of this board a long time ago but is relatively active still on this one below. You might want to look into starting a thread there as well.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/horse-breeding/

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6506810]
Jill was ran off of this board a long time ago but is relatively active still on this one below. You might want to look into starting a thread there as well.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/horse-breeding/[/QUOTE]

She is also very, very active on Facebook.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Where are the stallions kept?

[rodawn]

[QUOTE=kdow;6506809]
At one point something I read thought that at least some types of hoarding behavior actually come down to a type of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Is that still a theory, anyone know?

(I don’t like the shows either, I think they’re taking advantage of people for Drama.)[/QUOTE]

Yes it is, which is also classed as a Mental Illness Disorder, but it is usually strongly interlinked with another mental illnesses. Usually, hoarding begins as a result of a distressing trauma - such as a serious disruption to a financial way of life, loss of a job, loss of a loved one. It is quite often the severe, unmitigated grief reaction to a loss of something held dear to the person and the loss is different for each person. As the reaction goes unchecked and not dealt with on a personal level, it progresses and sometimes develops into what we all call hoarding. It usually doesn’t just suddenly happen. Hoarding creeps up on the person as their life spins out of control and they are helpless to stop it. Truly, they feel out of control and thus hang onto whatever they CAN control - their stuff. Piles of stuff. Right now, to use the pictures we got at the beginning of this thread, her life is messy and out of control. There is still considerable hope to get things back under control and life organized because the hoarding isn’t up to the roof yet. But, as the hoarding and uncleanliness builds, chances of successful treatment or recovery diminish each passing year. Eventually, as severity progresses (and it will always progress), it tracks into other aspects - in this case, to the care of the outside animals, maintenance and upkeep of the farm, inability to pay attention to financial matters and eventually winds its way into the legal system. The further the situation progresses, the dimmer the chances of recovery become. Another way of putting it, every single other thing that becomes necessary to be dealt with, they just can’t deal with it. They can’t pay that bill because they feel the need to hoard their cash due to their extreme fear to lose their money. They are, in essence, shutting down and walling themself off trying to protect themselves from yet another trauma or loss or event. Which doesn’t work, because they usually self-perpetuate further losses and it becomes a revolving door.

[rmh_rider]

Wow, omgosh, wow.

What a messy place.

Shame on her.

[NOMIOMI1]

From the threads I have read, it would seem she was fairly good at swindling people out of their money and horses and obviously self aware to the point of covering her tracks well enough to fool so many.

I dont feel sorry for her or think she is sick as much as lazy and of poor character. Maybe being “ill” is an easier way out than actually being sorry and cleaning up her act/house, for she was able bodied enough to continue a business charade for how long?

It is possible that “giving up” is much easier than dealing with all of the people who found her out.

[Kwill]

People with this kind of disorder can appear to be completely functional outside their homes, which would explain her ability to still do the kinds of business she was doing.

They also don’t see there’s a problem in the home. It looks ok to them.

[Laurierace]

I have suspected mental illness for quite some time. Mentally healthy people don’t operate like that. I just hope this is her “bottom” and it forces the people around her who are enabling her behavior to step up to the plate. It sounds like they took the first steps and for that should be commended. It is a long road and won’t be easy but hopefully they are up to the task.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

I know breeders sometimes, many times, keep their stallions at other farms to train and breed. Her stallions are nice boys, I really hope they have not had to endure this treatment. How truly sad for all involved. I always wondered where she got he money to buy those stallions.

[Renascence]

This is tragic. Thank you Yvonne for the proof to the public of the mess going on in that home. Thank you for making your in laws safe. Hopefully the remaining animals may be made safe.

[Lord_Helpus]

@Sonesta;6506774

I find this so very sad. It was terrible when by all appearances she was just a crook, but now that it appears she may truly be mentally ill, I just find it very sad.

Hi Sonesta! Long time no see.

If anyone has ever had a passing thought about how COTH came to be and where it all started, well it all started with this lady. She was the very first member and very first poster on COTH. compared to her, everyone else is a johnny-come-lately. :lol: Which means that COTH officially started on Feb 23, 2000.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[houserabbitz]

@Kyzteke;6506639

Wow – a house that is messier than mine!
I WOULD be more interested in seeing more pics of the OUTSIDE of place & the horses.

Considering the state of MY house, I won’t bust others for their housekeeping, except to state the obvious: “that is no place for an 80 yr old”.

Really? There is feces on the floor. That is no place for any living being. That is freaking disgusting and not healthy.