[QUOTE=Kwill;6540561]
Whistleblowers have a very difficult time in life. It’s an unfortunate consequence of doing the right thing. I wish the best to the SIL and equinedriver, because they have taken the chance to help others.[/QUOTE]
I hope an additional benefit to this thread is that people appreciate the importance of whistleblowers and that we are all a little bit more aggressive in standing up for what is right and standing up against what is wrong.
[QUOTE=ldaziens;6541232]
I hope an additional benefit to this thread is that people appreciate the importance of whistleblowers and that we are all a little bit more aggressive in standing up for what is right and standing up against what is wrong.[/QUOTE]
Yes! And what is more difficult it seems in the horse world, shenanigans are so often more overlooked or “pooh-poohed” because it is politically incorrect to bring to light wrongdoings or be critical of poor business practices of horse people. If you are critical then YOU are the one with the problem (“oh, leave her alone, everyone knows how busy so and so is”, etc) Yet if it were a doctor, lawyer, plumber, mechanic etc and they committed the same bad practices, it would be a different story.
Agreed! But a large part of why this occurs is because there is no certification, regulations or licensing to become an equine trainer, breeder, Stallion Owner, barn owner, coach, etc. and absolutely no standards that must be adhered to. At the end of the day, the dishonest people within our industry do not have to come before any “powers that be” to explain their illegal or criminal business practices and suffer the consequences…which leaves the horse community as a whole to police it ourselves. And in saying that, then you get people who question the motives of some who do come forward. Are they doing it for the good of the equine community…or do they have an alterior motive? 
Of course, it’s human nature to question which one it is.
In regards to Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farms, LLC…people ARE coming forward for the GOOD of the equine community. We all applaud you for doing so. :yes:
This is what happens when Newbies go into breeding. READ YOUR CONTRACT!
Whatever “rights” you have are defined in a contract that you and JB signed. Have you read it?
If you did not sign a contract before buying you were very foolish. ANYTIME you are buying ANYTHING on time or paying for something you will not get till some future time, you should always get a contract. Especially dealing with someone you’ve never met.
Traditionally, a breeding contract offers a refund only if the stallion dies. Most have a time limit, although of course the SO can extend that if they so choose. But they all vary. I’ve sign 6 pg contracts (!) and 1 page contracts. And I’ve asked SOs to add or modify if something makes me uncomfortable (like most contracts specifiy a vet do the AI; I do my own so I like that part changed); never had a problem.
But then I tend to try to talk to the SO at least afew times before I commit to breeding…
But honestly, IMHO at this point, you’d be best to just figure your $1200 is down the drain. The market is flooded with RW babies, Aloha’s stud fee is down to $600 (last I saw) and while this whole JB thing might not impact the sale of Gray Fox foals, it also MIGHT. Of course that will change should the GF foals prove to be outstanding performers, that is a number of years away. Chances are you are last in a very, very long line of people JB owes $$ to, and if she has no legal reason to give it to you, why should she?
Not to mention-- just in terms of breeding in general, the market is very slow and I can safely predict you will not make much of a profit on the foal.
And next time…remember that contract! That is the ONLY legal leg you have to stand on unless your state has some form of “oral contract” statute that you can prove.
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6540473]
Cold does not destroy the virus. Indeed, most viruses are stored in liquid nitrogen. And, think about it…the cold doesn’t kill the sperm cells ;). When packing the straws, there is no way of insuring that none of the liquid gets on to the outside of the straws and with viruses, it takes a very small amount to cross contaminate.
Is it likely to cross contaminate? Probably not. Is it worth the risk? Probably not. But, it is just one more attention to detail that should be considered when dealing with EVA positive semen.[/QUOTE]
Thank you ! I knew that the virus would not die while being frozen hence I thought it is getting dangarous again when it is thwaed. But I did not think about “leftovers” on the outside of the straws that could than contaminate other straws’ outsides. and than with thawing the other semen, having an infected horse.
[QUOTE=NJRider;6541261]
Yes! And what is more difficult it seems in the horse world, shenanigans are so often more overlooked or “pooh-poohed” because it is politically incorrect to bring to light wrongdoings or be critical of poor business practices of horse people. If you are critical then YOU are the one with the problem (“oh, leave her alone, everyone knows how busy so and so is”, etc) Yet if it were a doctor, lawyer, plumber, mechanic etc and they committed the same bad practices, it would be a different story.[/QUOTE]
Oh, it’s not just the “horse world”!
I would encourage anybody and everybody to view Philip Zimbardo’s TED Talk - “Evil - What Makes People Go Wrong?” Zimbardo was the creator of the “Stanford Prison Experiment”, which is very well known, and they recently made a movie based on it. The most important part of the talk for me comes at 19:00 where he shifts the focus and talks about “heroes”. Here are the links to the video of the talk and to the transcript:
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/lang/en//id/272
http://dotsub.com/view/0e94c9d8-9d94-4685-9c97-36404210ada0/viewTranscript/eng
And, here is the part I think is so important - this is from the transcript, so the grammar is off; or you can hear it on the video starting around 19:00 –
My big disagreement is that I don’t think you only get one chance in a lifetime to be heroic; I think every single day each human being has multiple opportunities to be heroic vs. being a passive bystander.
FYI – Here is a link to Matt Langdon’s “The Hero Construction Company” / Building Heroes in Schools - http://www.theherocc.com/
"So situations have the power to do, through – but the point is, this is the same situation that can inflame the hostile imagination in some of us, that makes us perpetrators of evil, can inspire the heroic imagination in others. It’s the same situation. And you’re on one side or the other. Most people are guilty of the evil of inaction, because your mother said, “Don’t get involved. Mind your own business.” And you have to say, “Mama, humanity is my business.”
So the psychology of heroism is – we’re going to end in a moment – how do we encourage children in new hero courses, that I’m working with Matt Langdon – he has a hero workshop – to develop this heroic imagination, this self-labeling, “I am a hero in waiting,” and teach them skills. To be a hero, you have to learn to be a deviant, because you’re always going against the conformity of the group. Heroes are ordinary people whose social actions are extraordinary. Who act.
The key to heroism is two things. A: you’ve got to act when other people are passive. B: you have to act socio-centrically, not egocentrically. And I want to end with the story that some of you know, about Wesley Autrey, New York subway hero. Fifty-year-old African-American construction worker. He’s standing on a subway in New York. A white guy falls on the tracks. The subway train is coming. There’s 75 people there. You know what? They freeze. He’s got a reason not to get involved. He’s black, the guy’s white, and he’s got two little kids. Instead, he gives his kids to a stranger, jumps on the tracks, puts the guy between the tracks, lies on him, the subway goes over him. Wesley and the guy – 20 and a half inches height. The train clearance is 21 inches. A half an inch would have taken his head off. And he said, “I did what anyone could do,” no big deal to jump on the tracks.
And the moral imperative is “I did what everyone should do.” And so one day, you will be in a new situation. Take path one, you’re going to be a perpetrator of evil. Evil, meaning you’re going to be Arthur Andersen. You’re going to cheat, or you’re going to allow bullying. Path two, you become guilty of the evil of passive inaction. Path three, you become a hero. The point is, are we ready to take the path to celebrating ordinary heroes, waiting for the right situation to come along to put heroic imagination into action? Because it may only happen once in your life, and when you pass it by, you’ll always know, I could have been a hero and I let it pass me by. So the point is thinking it and then doing it.
EquineDriver … how is the tally coming along? Making progress? Is there anything we can do to help you besides trying to keep this thread towards the top?
[QUOTE=ahf;6540911]
SBS has very elaborate and stringent protocols in place for not just freezing, but storing EVA positive frozen semen.
EVA frozen is kept in completely separate tanks, and I think those tanks are no where near the other tanks. Cuts down on the human error component when sorting and shipping doses.[/QUOTE]
Yup. We actually require stallion owners that “do” have EVA positive stallions to purchase a completely separate tank for storage. Those tanks have separate dip sticks, separate dewars for filling them, separate equipment for handling the straws and are kept in a separate area. It’s that attention to detail and I think that Jill has been WAY TOO cavalier in her dealing with the whole EVA protocol thing. I “am” pleased to see that some mare owners state that this year she is “insisting” that they MUST vaccinate their mares if they are breeding to Redwine, so apparently our “infomercials” are having an impact :D! Ahhh the power of the internet! Knowledge is power ;).
I hope someone that is “in the know” keeps the thread on HGS updated and on the first page.
Just checked the HGS thread, it’s back on top.
I learned today of another horse that escaped ending up at Jill’s in the past few months. Wow the stories come out of the woodwork! This mare was started under saddle and was too much for the girl who had her so she went to an eventing barn to be a broodmare again.
Turns out that [edit] immediately contacted the eventing barn and made arrangements to buy this mare back as she knew her previously when she was at another barn…but before the deal was done [edit] decided to give the mare to Jill Burnell and the mare showed up on the Gray Fox Farm website under a different name!
Needless to say, the event breeder was pissed when she found out and cancelled the deal [edit].
So folks, watch your mares……people are posing as interested then giving them to Jill it appears…….
Wow. That sucks. Glad they found out before it was too late.
I think the COTH backs up all postings… could be wrong here…
The internet is forever.
Was that S? No wonder there was no news as to S being in foal again… sad!
[QUOTE=216 Jumper;6544052]
I learned today of another horse that escaped ending up at Jill’s in the past few months. Wow the stories come out of the woodwork! This mare was started under saddle and was too much for the girl who had her so she went to an eventing barn to be a broodmare again.
Turns out that [edit] immediately contacted the eventing barn and made arrangements to buy this mare back as she knew her previously when she was at another barn…but before the deal was done [edit] decided to give the mare to Jill Burnell and the mare showed up on the Gray Fox Farm website under a different name!
Needless to say, the event breeder was pissed when she found out and cancelled the deal [edit].
So folks, watch your mares……people are posing as interested then giving them to Jill it appears…….[/QUOTE]
“The Internet is forever” Laurierace.
Indeed.
I remembered reading this post and went back to find it. http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291595
[edit]
Again, correct me if I’m wrong. Funny how birds of a feather…
[QUOTE=Daventry;6544412]
Again, correct me if I’m wrong. Funny how birds of a feather…[/QUOTE]
[quote][edit]
Birds of a feather indeed!
[QUOTE=Daventry;6544412]
[edit]
Again, correct me if I’m wrong. Funny how birds of a feather…[/QUOTE]
You are correct …[edit]
[quote=3Dogs;6544575]You are correct …[edit]Farnham
[/quote]
Quote:
[edit]
Man, this thread needs to be turned into a soap opera on Lifetime. :rolleyes:
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