Is there any way to get the stallions current/registered with out paying all the back fees? (Sorry if this is a totally stupid question, do not breed.)
[QUOTE=Sheila A;6558454]
This is my question as well. I think Edgar mentioned earlier in this thread that it would take more than just the current annual fee to get Romantic Star reinstated as an active stallion with AHS.[/QUOTE]
The debts are Jill Burnell’s and Gray Fox Farms surely. Any new owner of Romantic Star or Redwine can’t be liable for Jill’s debts, can they? 
[QUOTE=Ware Whip!;6558085]
I know Shannon, have followed this situation, and am aware of exactly what went on.
I was speaking of THAT person.[/QUOTE]
I agree it was a bit confusing, but I knew what she meant 
Thanks to everyone for the support.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;6558473]
Is there any way to get the stallions current/registered with out paying all the back fees? (Sorry if this is a totally stupid question, do not breed.)[/QUOTE]
… would be nice if all it took was a change of ownership.
[QUOTE=Cloverbarley;6558482]
The debts are Jill Burnell’s and Gray Fox Farms surely. Any new owner of Romantic Star or Redwine can’t be liable for Jill’s debts, can they? [/QUOTE]
The debts with the registries stay with the stallion AFAIK. If, say, Redwine, has not paid his dues for the past 3 years, a new owner would have to pay for those years in order for him to be active for the current year. I’m sure it depends on the registry, but that is how it works with the majority of them. Hence why mare/foal owners have had to pay stallion dues in order to get papers.
[QUOTE=ShannonD;6558490]
The debts with the registries stay with the stallion AFAIK. If, say, Redwine, has not paid his dues for the past 3 years, a new owner would have to pay for those years in order for him to be active for the current year. I’m sure it depends on the registry, but that is how it works with the majority of them. Hence why mare/foal owners have had to pay stallion dues in order to get papers.[/QUOTE]
Yeah the mare owners paid the dues for these stallions, certainly for OHBS, so therefore haven’t those years back-payments been accounted for, even if paid for by others rather than the stallion owner?
[QUOTE=Cloverbarley;6558497]
Yeah the mare owners paid the dues for these stallions, certainly for OHBS, so therefore haven’t those years back-payments been accounted for, even if paid for by others rather than the stallion owner?[/QUOTE]
I think so yes, but were those for 2013 foals or just 2012 and before? I doubt each and every stallion fee has been covered, either by JB herself or by mare owners, for every year for every registry for all of her stallions. Some may in fact current, yes.
[QUOTE=ShannonD;6558511]
I think so yes, but were those for 2013 foals or just 2012 and before? I doubt each and every stallion fee has been covered, either by JB herself or by mare owners, for every year for every registry for all of her stallions. Some may in fact current, yes.[/QUOTE]
True, although I think OHBS were in the clear until 2010 (Down Yonder may be able to clarify ). The foals from 2011 were covered by mare owners paying the years dues. (I’ve always wondered how many individual mare owners paid those dues.) Not sure about AHS though. One of my 2011 foals was registered with AHS and they did not ask me for stallion activation fee as far as I recall, however OHBS did. From what I’ve read (and stand to be corrected) ISR/NA is paid up by Jill??
[QUOTE=ShannonD;6558490]
The debts with the registries stay with the stallion AFAIK. If, say, Redwine, has not paid his dues for the past 3 years, a new owner would have to pay for those years in order for him to be active for the current year. I’m sure it depends on the registry, but that is how it works with the majority of them. Hence why mare/foal owners have had to pay stallion dues in order to get papers.[/QUOTE]
It does not seem logical to expect a new owner to be held responsible for activations for previous years under a previous owner. Stallion activation is year to year, so I would think that if her check for 2010 activation with XYZ registry bounced and she didn’t make good on it, then that stallion wouldn’t be considered activated for 2010. But the next year would bring in a new slate, at least as far as activation went. Also, since she was the owner at the time of the bounced checks, and SHE issued the bad checks, it seems the debt would be attached to HER, and not to the horse.
OTOH, if her bounced checks are for other than just stallion activation- for instance, for inspections of stallions, mares or foals, then those debts would logically carry over from year to year, because the horses were inspected - i.e., services were rendered by the registry, for which they rightfully expect payment.
At any rate - someone told me last year she had heard “through the grapevine” that Jill had quoted a price of $500,000 for Redwine. I think she will be waiting for a buyer for a long time… :lol:
Half a million dollars???
Good gravy, Popeye K himself was sold for less than that ($400k or $450k, can’t remember exactly) when he was younger, and he was already proven by having won numerous green horse championships at that point, plus was MUCH scopier and had much more established jumping bloodlines.
I mean, I like Redwine, but I feel like $100-150k would be much more appropriate price, particularly given the situation. That said, I’m not an expert on hunter/jumper pricing.
[QUOTE=Cloverbarley;6558525]
True, although I think OHBS were in the clear until 2010 (Down Yonder may be able to clarify ). The foals from 2011 were covered by mare owners paying the years dues. (I’ve always wondered how many individual mare owners paid those dues.) Not sure about AHS though. One of my 2011 foals was registered with AHS and they did not ask me for stallion activation fee as far as I recall, however OHBS did. From what I’ve read (and stand to be corrected) ISR/NA is paid up by Jill??[/QUOTE]
I am not at home and don’t have access to my stallion books, but I know Redwine was in the OHBS/GOV stallion book the year after he was inspected & approved, but only because they had sent the book to press on promises that she would make good on her bounced checks. Of course, she never did, so he wasn’t considered activated for that year, or for subsequent years.
Usually for an approved but non-activated stallion, each breeder presenting his foals for inspection is charged the “breeding allowance fee” ($100 per foal), but not the full activation fee ($350). In Redwine’s case, it could be that if her check for the INSPECTION also bounced, they also wanted that fee covered by the breeders.
Any way you cut it, this SO shafted her mare owners, shafted the registries, shafted her buyers, shafted her trainers, shafted her vendors and suppliers and service providers, etc. What a piece of work. :mad:
Thanks DY
She’s a piece of work for sure!
[QUOTE=Spectrum;6558560]
I mean, I like Redwine, but I feel like $100-150k would be much more appropriate price, particularly given the situation. That said, I’m not an expert on hunter/jumper pricing.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t even go $25K. Sure, he is black & blingy and puts a nice topline on his foals, but he hasn’t proven much in performance, a lot of hunter folks regard him as a 3’ horse at best, he isn’t proven as a sire of performance horses, he is EVA positive, and he carries a ton of baggage with him from JB/GFF. It would be very hard for a new owner to make their money back on him unless he is priced very reasonably for what he is.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;6558539]
It does not seem logical to expect a new owner to be held responsible for activations for previous years under a previous owner.[/QUOTE]
Very glad to hear that-- thanks for clarifying!
I really hesitate to have this thread turn into a discussion of any of her stallions merits since they are the innocent parties here. That said, with everything Jill Burnell has done wrong there are still people breeding to her stallions. She could literally write a book on how not to run a successful breeding business but still gets bookings. If someone else had the stallions and did a half way decent job of managing their business it would be an amazing improvement and the sky would seem to be the limit for their popularity.
[QUOTE=ShannonD;6558596]
Very glad to hear that-- thanks for clarifying![/QUOTE]
Just bear in mind it is IMHO. I do not speak for OHBS/GOV or any other registry. :lol:
[QUOTE=Laurierace;6558609]
I really hesitate to have this thread turn into a discussion of any of her stallions merits since they are the innocent parties here. That said, with everything Jill Burnell has done wrong there are still people breeding to her stallions. She could literally write a book on how not to run a successful breeding business but still gets bookings. If someone else had the stallions and did a half way decent job of managing their business it would be an amazing improvement and the sky would seem to be the limit for their popularity.[/QUOTE]
Well, yes - primarily because she has two stallions who are black with chrome, and who seem to produce nicely for the hunter breeding classes (well, at least one of them does pretty consistently), and since “that look” is very popular in the hunter world these days, folks fall all over themselves to have one of those blingy foals for the line classes. And everytime someone sees a lovely foal like your own, they think “Wow, I have GOT to get me one of those!” (apologies to Will Smith ;)). And so the madness continues…
That is what I mean by bashing the stallions. It is obviously a few years away before we can start riding and jumping my filly to know for sure, but there is no way in hell anyone can convince me that all she is is bling. That insults my filly and insults my intelligence as an someone who has an eye for young horses. Every single foal owner who has posted on this thread has said they loved the foal they got. Are we all blinded by bling? We must be a pretty shallow bunch if that is the case.
The stallions and their merits are not the issue here. I wouldn’t breed to Bernardini for free if Jill Burnell owned him. That is the issue and nothing else at this point. If someone else gets their hands on the stallions and wants to market them to you then feel free to discuss their merits for your breeding program.
Well I didn’t get any bling on my filly! Redwine failed me! Lol. But boy is she purty and a great ride!
Many don’t get the bling, which I hate anyway, but what I CAN speak to is the minds and athleticism of the get. We have had SIX pass through here, four at one time. All free jumped and studied by us. Every one showed scope, form and brains to go as far as you want to go with them. I know that Brandon, who has also had multiples, and can evaluate a young horse, feels the same as we do. So, even if the stallion is never used again, the offspring out there already will put him on the map as a sire of hunters IF they get the right start in their careers.
