Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6558839]
It is obviously a few years away before we can start riding and jumping my filly to know for sure, but there is no way in hell anyone can convince me that all she is is bling. That insults my filly and insults my intelligence as an someone who has an eye for young horses. Every single foal owner who has posted on this thread has said they loved the foal they got. Are we all blinded by bling? We must be a pretty shallow bunch if that is the case.[/QUOTE]

Nope, I never said your filly was “all bling and nothing else”, so don’t get all bent out shape.

I just did a Results search on USEF with his name as sire. I haven’t checked every horse - far from it - but I spot-checked over a dozen, and either got no results, or results for breeding classes only - IOW, no performance horses. And he is tied for #562 on the leading sires list for Hunters - with only one offspring showing up in the performance ranks - so I guess the jury is still out as to whether he will prove to be a producer of performance horses.

[COTHalter44]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6559155]
Nope, I never said your filly was “all bling and nothing else”, so don’t get all bent out shape.

I just did a Results search on USEF with his name as sire. I haven’t checked every horse - far from it - but I spot-checked over a dozen, and either got no results, or results for breeding classes only - IOW, no performance horses. And he is tied for #562 on the leading sires list for Hunters - with only one offspring showing up in the performance ranks - so I guess the jury is still out as to whether he will prove to be a producer of performance horses.[/QUOTE]

In the horse’s defense (NOT JB’s), his oldest born here are only 4, and from what I gather it was a very small crop, so perhaps that is why there are not many showing up yet. I do agree that time will tell if he produces more than 3 foot horses.

[Summit_Springs_Farm]

Here is a link to a picture of my Redwine gelding, he’s the one on the right, circuit grande champion ocala 2012

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2580831330100093741DGdiZA

So now is he a proven sire;)

[Roisin]

And didn’t Redwine win ribbons in the first years at WEF? So he couldn’t have totally sucked at 3’6". Maybe he’s not a 4’ horse, but to call him a 3’ horse “at best” seems unfair. Humble opinion from an admitted bling-lover, though.

[Lazy-Pony]

Can I ask a stupid question? I’ve been trying to keep up with this thread, and I am truly afraid I might have missed an important detail…but…
Where is all the money Jill has been paid throughout the last year (or more) for stud fees? If she has already foreclosed on her house and is bouncing checks left and right, where is the money I assume she has received from mare owners? Is this a situation of her having mishandled her income, or is that merely scratching at the surface of a monumental financial issue that I fail to comprehend?

Sorry to interrupt the current flow here, but I’ve been scratching my (blonde) head over this for a while now.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Roisin;6559261]
And didn’t Redwine win ribbons in the first years at WEF? So he couldn’t have totally sucked at 3’6". Maybe he’s not a 4’ horse, but to call him a 3’ horse “at best” seems unfair. Humble opinion from an admitted bling-lover, though.[/QUOTE]

He also has a good enough mind to have gone from 3’ pre-green to first years in a matter of weeks, which is too fast but I believe they were trying to prove a point in a limited amount of time.

[Laurierace]

My guess is the money is in the bathtub with the chickens. Seriously, as someone who has cared for horses professionally for twenty years, it costs a fortune to do it right. It costs a small fortune to do it half assed enough to keep them alive. I doubt she is stuffing the mattress with cash.

[JWB]

[QUOTE=Lazy-Pony;6559262]
Can I ask a stupid question? I’ve been trying to keep up with this thread, and I am truly afraid I might have missed an important detail…but…
Where is all the money Jill has been paid throughout the last year (or more) for stud fees? If she has already foreclosed on her house and is bouncing checks left and right, where is the money I assume she has received from mare owners? Is this a situation of her having mishandled her income, or is that merely scratching at the surface of a monumental financial issue that I fail to comprehend?

Sorry to interrupt the current flow here, but I’ve been scratching my (blonde) head over this for a while now.[/QUOTE]

She’s buying new mares and new property… Wouldn’t be high on my list of priorities if I had outstanding debt and lots of mouths to feed but I don’t suppose Jill Burnell consults with Suzie Ormond for the “Can I afford it” advice. (wouldn’t that be an interesting segment if she did though)

[3Dogs]

[QUOTE=Summit Springs Farm;6559252]
Here is a link to a picture of my Redwine gelding, he’s the one on the right, circuit grande champion ocala 2012

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2580831330100093741DGdiZA

So now is he a proven sire;)[/QUOTE]

Congrats…! This horse?
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Searches/horseResultsReport.asp

Redford? Hudspeth? the owner? So many Redfords! :lol:

[runwayz]

Summit Springs, how old is your horse? Was he sired before Redwine went to GFF?

[DownYonder]

SS, congrats on Redford’s success! It is nice to know Redwine does have at least one offspring out there competing successfully in the performance ring. He currently has close to 60 offspring listed with USEF, so it will be interesting to see how they fare as a group in performance.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=runwayz;6559582]
Summit Springs, how old is your horse? Was he sired before Redwine went to GFF?[/QUOTE]

It would appear that is the case. From USEF:
REDFORD (5177288)
Foal Date: 3/1/2005
Breed: MECKLENBURG
Color: Bay Sex: G
Sire: REDWINE
Dam: TAMEIBLUETE

Mecklenburg is a small registry in the far NW part of Germany. I believe Redwine was standing at the state stud there (Redefin) when he was discovered by Linda Woltz for JB/GFF. Since Mecklenburg does not operate in the U.S., it is a sure bet Redford was bred in Germany, where he was registered under the name Re Match. Here is his pedigree on HorseTelex. http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/526791 .

Edited to correct info regarding Redford fka Re Match.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6559677]
He currently has close to 60 offspring listed with USEF, so it will be interesting to see how they fare as a group in performance.[/QUOTE]

Don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Lots could be winning, or not. I am still shocked at how many people “lose” their horse’s history, and Redwine’s offspring may have further reason - to not get drawn into any problems.

[Cloverbarley]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6559678]
It would appear that is the case. From USEF:
REDFORD (5177288)
Foal Date: 3/1/2005
Breed: MECKLENBURG
Color: Bay Sex: G
Sire: REDWINE
Dam: TAMEIBLUETE

Mecklenburg is a small registry in the far NW part of Germany. I believe Redwine was standing at the state stud there (Redefin) when he was discovered by Linda Woltz for JB/GFF. Since Mecklenburg does not operate in the U.S., it is a sure bet Redford was bred in Germany. He is not listed on HorseTelex, but apparently he has a full brother born in 2005 - http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/526791 .[/QUOTE]

Rematch? Redford? Same horse maybe with a name-change? Nice looking boy anyway and congrats to Summit Springs Farm

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;6559712]
Don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Lots could be winning, or not. I am still shocked at how many people “lose” their horse’s history, and Redwine’s offspring may have further reason - to not get drawn into any problems.[/QUOTE]

Why would anyone do that if they bred or bought horses sired by Redwine that are free and clear? Those horses are not going to be encumbered by Jill’s pproblems, if they can do their jobs.

More concerning is that they get the CHANCE to make it as hunters. We see too many people buy that cute foal, then not know what to do with them at riding age. And unable or unwilling to have someone do it for them.

[Lynnwood]

First Jill Burnell of Gray Fox Farm’s suspected and proven unethical , and illegal business practices should not have to be carried by her stallions other then peoples (rightly so) unwillingness to use them while they are still belonging to or being represented by she.

Those stallions(Redwine and Aloha) will have enough burden/weight to carry proving that they are more then feed and lead stallions in the years to come. One horse getting a circuit championship (congrats to his owners) does not make him PROVEN, Redwine and his offspring are going to have to survive his owners indiscretion and a the performance ring. Time will sort at least that half of the mess out. We know Romantic Star can perform and his offspring… he just needs a new owner.

There are a few other Rotspon offspring doing fairly well in the hunters; Rapunzel comes to mind right off . Conversely as far as I’m concerned all that tells me is if I like the type SKIP Redwine all together and breed to Rotspon a proven sire with NO EVA/Jill B. issues. Although more widely accepted as a dressage horse sire he did score fairly well in jumping placing 7th out of 38 at his stallion test for jumping, 1st in dressage and 1st overall. His damn sire is Argentan of course sire of Argentinus so there is the blood to have some jump.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/rapunzel-has-fairytale-devon.

BTW The Summit Springs Horse is http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/rematch.htm

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Cloverbarley;6559713]
Rematch? Redford? Same horse maybe with a name-change? Nice looking boy anyway and congrats to Summit Springs Farm :)[/QUOTE]

You are right, I was posting too fast and overlooked the fact that Redford and Re Match had the same YOB.

I corrected my earlier post to clarify that Redford and Re Match are the same horse.

[Summit_Springs_Farm]

Yes rematch is Redford and he was born in Germany and we imported him two years ago this November.
When we were looking at him, we really did not even consider his breeding, in fact I think we bought him before I clued into the fact he was by JB’s Redwine. I probably didn’t even know the stallion was standing in the US and owned by JB.

We bought him on his merits since he was to be and is my adult hunter. We love him. Thank you for the kind words.
Also I asked JB to take down the pictures and I never heard back from her, but I have the website designed name to contact.

[runwayz]

What division is ReMatch shown in? The adult hunters? And I believe Jill was going through the Redwine partnership battle in 08, if I am correct.

[Samotis]

Sounds like if everyone who has mares and foals on the gray fox website that shouldn’t be on there, if they were removed she would have a much smaller website.

I find it hard to believe that every mare she has on her website and every mare that she mentions she actually owns or leases legitimately.

Problem with the internet is you can say pretty much anything until you get caught!

(funny commercial with women who believed everything on the Internet and has a date with a “French model” that looks like lurch with a fanny pack comes to mind) :eek: