Kim - is your e-mail down? I have e-mailed you 3 times about Unico and never got a response! 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>… Lynn,
I know it might sound hard for you to believe, but those of us who are breeding the pure ASB sporthorse and crosses (especially ASBxWBs) have noticed this very thing. They move very much like modern day wb’s and have an extremely elegant presence. They are also fast, have lots of stamina and heart, are very sound, and have the most intelligent, trainable minds. They are exquisitely sensitive without being crazy and are very versatile. Oh, and I forgot to mention the sheer comfort of their gaits! 
Those that see our horses and actually experience them see it for themselves as well.
As FRED was saying, function follows form, and many ASB’s are built extremely well for upper level sports. They cross quite naturally, and beautifully I might add, with WB’s. And they can hold their own, if bred with competitive sports in mind, against any other horse breed or type out there. This will have to be proven in time, but we’re working on it and believe in what we are producing.
Not to make this about ASB’s. The Europeans used their own native horse breeds to form the foundations for their wb’s. What is so unusual about American breeds being used, either being bred in their pure form for sporthorse, or being crossed with other breeds/ sporthorse types (including wb’s) to put our own unique American stamp on the sporthorse world? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hello,
I do not know what you are writing about, nor do I
surmise what you have written could have possibly
been distilled from what I posted which was
" 
" - which I stand by.
Firmly.
Please do not try to convince me that saddlebreds
are competitive in upper level competition
in the Olympic disciplines, as you will be wasting
your time no matter how many adjectives or verbs used.
This is not meant to be rude, I simply just do not
believe it based on what I have seen over many years
in sport.
Perhaps when I see them competitive in the upper
levels and I will revisit my opinion … I do
admire your confidence in your breeding program !
The original post just caught my eye - and certainly
everyone has an opinion … so … I voiced my opinion.
Lindac has their opinion.
Fred has her opinion.
You have yours.
Yours in sport,
Lynn
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by lindac:
…
Lynn, if you are ever in Kentucky, I invite you to come by and see my horse work. I think you would be pleasantly surprised. There are 4 more ASB’s coming along but they are only 3,4,& 5 so they are doing the same things that Warmbloods of that age are doing.
Linda
… </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you for the invitation - since it might
snow here this weekend it has even more
appeal ! 
Yours in sport,
Lynn
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>if the demand is for the nice lower level hrose that is affordable, rideable and sensible then guess waht the majority of hroses being produced will be </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gotta disagree there, Shawnee.
It would do the species a disservice to FOCUS on breeding the type of horse you describe, at least from some breeders points of view–mine included.
Breeding’s goal should always be the improvement of the species, not maintaining the status quo by producing animals of ordinary abilities. There’s nothing wrong with having that–in fact, most of us end up with little more than that most of the time. But for the ordinary, average, “common” (what anyone can produce in almost any breed) to be the “goal” of an entire breeding program? That’s a waste AND that’s what MAY cause so many horses to end up unwanted and abused: too many breeders producing too many dime-a-dozen creatures.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>How about describing the GOOD traits this filly has as those traits might influence someone’s breeding “philosophy”? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because I think it’s “funner” by modern human nature to feel superior to others by highlighting any negative nuance one can point out. It’s human nature- suvival of the fittest. If one can pointout flaws, perhaps their own stock will be perceived as “better”- and perhaps bringing more business thier way to help them flourish. It’s like that saying… “It’s not personal- it’s business.”
Again… If this makes everyone feel better. I am saying “MY FILLY IS NOT PERFECT”. She IS however my “Perfect little angel”. She has some wonderful qualities for a ASB sporthorse. Is this sounding more to what I should have said??
Again, I AM SORRY. I am TRYING my best to work my way back onto this board without causing waves. Perheps this is not possible. I feel certain people seem to come out and turn my innocent posts into something more, like I am stating I HAVE THE BEST. NO, I DO NOT- never said I did. I am a SMALL BREEDER. I am not breeding 20-30 mares a year, nor am I saying I am further ahead than I am. However, I AM proud of what I am breeding and just wanted to share this with others who may be doing the same- outside the “norm”.
OK, since this has gotten way off topic and others have tried to bring it back to no avail… and some have turned it into a spitting contest, should I close it? You all can continue with the arguing elsewhere. I do not wish to continue this type of nonproductive chatter. (and I know NOTHING about dogs! 
)
Oh, and to end… Please Please… my name is Tawna - no y. It’s spelled correctly. It is my birth given name. Out of respect, I am asking nicely that people take note. Not blaming anyone, and I know it was just a mistake. It’s easy to remeber like Dawn - Dawna (donna) with a T -
Tawna My Father who named me Thanks you. 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>one backyard horse to another? Similarly, why breed IN flaws? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
pwyne,
um…I guess the term “backyard horses” impiled backyard breeder to me and “in flaws” translated to inferior, gosh I msut be a total imbecile! 
Another…
Cartier…you are definitely a peacekeeper. I really appreciate your openmindedness and you attempts to keep the discussion friendly.
I am amazed and dismayed at the bitterness shown by some people over these saddlebreds and other “untrendy” breeds being bred for sport horse disciplines…I mean…if you aren’t into it or prefer using European stock…why should you care? Those of us who want to use American breeds have a different vision…not wrong or flawed…just different. What is wrong with that? Why is it why Tawna said that her filly was her idea of the perfect sporthorse, she came under attack for that statment? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
My idea of perfect is about 14:2 hands, buckskin, and he can melt my heart with his intelligent kind eyes when he shares his grain with his foals every morning. 
Anyway, Ruach…nice to have you in the discussion. I thought that there was spanish blood in the original saddlebreds and they were developed in colonial times using the spanish stock that was already in the Americas. I would love to see a cross back to spanish! I’ll bet that is lovely.
Now that I’ve read these pages, I’m getting back to the original topic.
Tawna, I like your filly. The best eventer/jumper (an outstanding horse)I’ve ever had was an ASB X.
I’ve bred two fillies out of my TB mare. One is a traditional cross, the other is unusual. Both are intended to be my eventers. Here they are:
trad breeding
weird breeding
By pedigree alone, I’d get some interest in the first filly. Not so with the second one – I get a lot of blank stares when I say what she is . But the unusual cross is the nicer of the two .
Shawnee.
I think buckskin (cream dilutes) are in the breed but not true duns. I may be wrong but that was my impression.
I have been very impressed with some morgans I have seen and used to own a 1/4 morgan/3/4 TB cross that was so fancy he pinned well in hand against WB’s some years ago at the Raleigh Breed show. He actually beat some stallions in the 3 year old colts’ class and he was a gelding! I’d have folks come up to me all the time and mistake him for a warmblood also…they’d usually guess holsteiner as he was very big boned.
Daydream Believer–
You’re right! Performance is absolutely the key. My arena is going to be completed in October and I can’t wait to get going again with my boy. I’m ready to compete.
Honestly I find that the breeders who breeds for the “amateur market” BUT still breeds the best of what theya re trying to produce to the best has a MORE MARKETABLE horse overall and their hroses almost ALWAYS find good, productive homes. This is because they are being bred for a standard of “ease of use” as well as good gaits etc.
That’s an interesting last paragraph. I have to say that in the last two months on both this forum, and Ewarmbloods, I have only heard american breeders describe every single foal born as Stunning, the best, world class etc etc. Has anyone actually had an “average” foal, that’s average - better than some, not as good as some. I understand the reasons for not being objective, it’s not very commercial. The problem with that is if you tell yourself the same thing eleven times, you believe it. Then you try to convince others, they don’t believe you, you get upset. i have never heard a breeder in Europe refer to any of their foals, mares youngsters or adult horses as: "My baby, kids etc etc etc. It does seem (and the evidence is all over this forum, that there is a level of over emotion surrounding the American side of the industry. In itself, that’s no bad thing. It only becomes a problem, as can regularly be seen here, when you get disagreements (I’ve been in a few) 
. There are clearly more women involved than men, and it could be said that perhaps the gentler sex can get a little more emotional at times, but, again, that’s no bad thing, as it tends to up the level of care for the horses (did anyone see how I steered around that mine field there). Of course you love your foals, you probably treat them better than your own kids. Of course you want the very best for them, and for them to be the best, it’s a direct reflection on yourself. But this is a pretty brutal industry, and any shortcomings are very quickly found out. In general the best do win.
The same goes for stallions, it has never ceased to amaze me who many “world class” stallions there are, all with fantastic semen that’s guaranteed to get your mare pregnant if she so much as looks at the straw. This is why these forums can be very useful. the job of glossy brochures is to sell us this years stallion, the job of these forums is to knock it, tear it apart, and see what rises to the top.
I’m fortunate having two legends of the trade come to my farm and critique my foals, and they really will tell me if I get it wrong. This hasn’t happened yet, but not because I’m a clever breeder, just good mares and a following wind.
My fourth mantra - “We buy the best, we use the best and we hope for the best”
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by pwynnnorman:
Meaning? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That’s a whole lot of horses. Do they all have good homes??
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>How many of you are breeding for Olympic World Class sporthorses that will be purchased and ridden by professionals and are actually keeping, training and gearing towards that arena? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Our goal is to breed horses that can compete successfully in FEI competition. In that respect we may be unique for posters on this forum (and posters on this thread), but we’re certainly NOT unique as breeders. Frankly, the breeders and owners of the superb brown competition WB Sporthorses are out “doing,” not here posting.
But, it’s fair to say that we are putting our money where our mouth is… which is why I am currently googling bankruptcy laws. 
This is not an easy or cheap goal to acheive. 
No breeder hits the mark every time… hell, if you hit the mark once every few years you’re lucky… and the really great ones come along probably once in a lifetime.
Could someone explain to me what a “cookie cutter” foal is? There seems to be some implication that straight warmblood foals are somehow cookie cutter foals.
Most breeders probably wish it was that easy, that they could all be stamped out just so.
I would love to see pictures of some ordinary, cookie cutter, and somehow lesser foals.
(Will the Royal Prince foal out of my Contucci mare be considered cookie cutter? I’d be happy enough if my mare just has a healthy, correct baby. )
yes, Shawnee_acres - we’re back to that. Round and round we go. See, the Warmblood breeders who are purists/elitists figure that since horses of their breed (said with tongue-in-cheek, obviously) are competing in Athens and Vegas, that the horses they are producing are all upper level contenders, solely because of their breed. The reality is more than half will never be more than a 3’6" jumper or 2nd level Dressage horse.
Tell me aurum, why haven’t I seen any of your palomino Warmbloods in the Olympics?
And Lynn - you said you were skeptical of ASB’s being able to perform at the upper levels. LindaC has already given you an example of one, her Harry Callahan who is schooling Prix St Georges and will be showing it next year.
Rhoquest, the pinto ASB/WB cross I mentioned is also showing and winning at 3rd level and schooling 4th…
Considering the proportionately tiny number of Saddlebreds and ASB/WB crosses out there compared the whackload of Warmbloods all over NA and Europe, the fact that there are any at that level is impressive enough.
No wait… that’s right, I forgot… Harry is a fluke, Linda! And those other young ASB’s that your pro trainer is bringing along?? All flukes!! And Rhoquest, he’s a fluke too! LMAO! And my ASB/WB yearling, who beat out 3 Warmblood babies (2 with European lines) in her line class, well gosh darnit she’s a fluke too! The judge must’ve been on crack!
appaloosalady–
Really, your TWH isn’t gaited??? I’ve often thought how much I could use the TWH’s powerful build and hindquarter in my own breeding program. Such smooth gaits and wonderful dispositions they have!
How prevalent are TWH that are non-gaited???
I just love this thread!
pwynnnorman,
I think you made some excellent points in your post above. btw, where did you get the name you post as? And, do we know each other?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>And are you kidding about the Doodles? Did someone really pay $1200 for a mutt? I mean, was this first generation? Man, there really IS a sucker born every minute!!
And one of them is ME for spending tens of thousands of $$$$ on horses when I could be breeding mutts to sell for $1200 per pup!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kyzteke,
We were reading this thread and just noticed this part of your post from a few pages back. I am not joking, Yes it was a first generation and 100% a mutt. Some of those Doodles go for upwards of $3,000.00. And there are waiting lists of buyers. 
Google Goldendoodles. I’d post links but I don’t want to give them the business. The way I see it, you’re on to something… a Jack-a Doodle 
And you can laugh all the way to the bank.
