del
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Do you watch any of the terrible newer Netflix dating shows like Love is Blind and Ultimatum? I know they cast certain types for reality tv but YIKES. If that’s anything like what the LA dating scene, which it might be some kind of representation, I really feel for people looking for their person.
I met my DH when he was 44. He’s 47 now. Never married, never even lived with a partner before me. That previously might have been a red flag, but being divorced myself wasn’t any less of one so I asked my questions about it and was completely satisfied with his answers. He will tell anyone he has been on an obscene amount of first dates. He was picky and doesn’t regret being so.
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Maybe your DH is who should be talking with and giving advice to this lovelorn poster here? 
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You’ve done nothing wrong.
Honestly, after you started this thread I almost sent you a private note to suggest that you don’t take dating advice from a group of middle aged women on a horse forum. I’m sure people are trying their best to give advice, but let’s be honest - they are not your age bracket and probably not many of the things you are looking for in a relationship. So the advice you get here might not be remotely similar from a group of your peers.
It’s funny because when I decided to do online dating I got some great advice here, and one particularly useful bit was that it was absolutely ok to “be as shallow as you want.” I wondered if I should try harder to get to know men who did not meet parameters I thought were important – and YES those included weight and fitness. But also, intelligence, education, and attractiveness. And people said no - you don’t even know these people!
For some reason - it was totally ok to give a 50+ year old woman that advice. But a 20/30 something man should be above those petty thing? No way. Big double standard there.
I don’t believe that every woman in LA is shallow and superficial, but I will also say that my understanding from younger co-workers is that online dating is not easy in your 20s and 30s. I think by the time people get to my age they are looking for a life partner. But younger people are still looking to have fun, maybe hook up (men and women), and also play the field to see if there is a “better option” out there (the triple crown of dating – money, looks and personality).
Back to your profile – taking “fitness addict” out is fine. It’s clear you’re fit, and totally fine to look for a woman who is also into fitness, but don’t need to suggest an addict/junkie. List the activities you could enjoy with a partner. Include a photo of you riding (if you have one – you haven’t yet proved to this audience that you do actually ride 
) Include a photo or two of you just being you - even if that means selfies or asking a friend to take a photo. My SO took a photo of himself lying on the floor with his dog (both of them on their backs, camera held above). It wasn’t even a really good one, but it is exactly who he is.
I wish you luck. Speed dating might be fun, too. I would have liked to try that if something like that existed for people my age (and it was in the middle of the pandemic, so no doing anything!)
Oh, editing to add – also think about the way you respond to women (assuming you’re reaching out to them.) Not sure what advice I would give, but that is just as important as your profile. I got a lot of random, weird messages. The first reply from a guy I actually did date for a while was “I ride my bike through that area every day.” - that was it. My first thought? He’s a creep. What will I do if I don’t like him and he rides by my house every day.
I think if I had been more seasoned online dater, I wouldn’t have ever met him – it would have been enough for me to think nope, failed the first test. He was actually a super nice guy, but his dopey comments should have clued me in that he was, in fact, a dopey guy. Hah.
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@Bluey I’ve shared some of his insight throughout this convo.
@S1969 is spot on. I really feel for the younger generations. Being 40 now and having a short stint with the dating world in my late late 30’s, I feel like I just skirted a verrrrrry different norm than I was in my 20’s. Probably not quite as pronounced in the midwest vs a large city like LA but still very noticeable. My ex husband also lived in LA when I met him. His version of LA and meeting people there in 2008 was that it was full of selfish vapid people and all they cared about was what you could do for them. I don’t imagine that’s gotten any better in a little over a decade.
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Well, let’s not pretend that dating in your 20s/30s isn’t always something of a “meat market” – that’s literally what we called it. We didn’t have the influence of social media to amplify it, but me and my peers went to bars for Friday happy hour after work and it was absolutely the epitome of superficial “dating” scenes. Posses of guys flocking around the pretty girls, groups of girls checking out the hot guys. And yes - all about looks and economic potential. I met my ex-dh in such a way…and he was a lot of those things - charismatic, attractive, well educated, gainfully employed. Unfortunately, I didn’t really figure out that he wasn’t nice to me until after we got married. Not as nice as a life partner should be, anyway. He wasn’t a bad guy. Just not a great guy.
I’m not sure there is any way around the fact that you have to try to sort the wheat from the chaff some way. Online dating might be somewhat faster compared to the bar scene. But hard to say.
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Eh, when I was in my 20’s it was there but people weren’t looking for relationships in my experience. Hook up? Sure, but no one I knew went to the bar to try and meet their future spouse. I avoided bars in my 20’s for this specific reason and because people could still smoke inside 
. We joked about how the bar was the LAST place we’d consider meeting someone to seriously date. One of my college friends did meet her spouse at a bar, but they both got dragged along and didnt want to be there and I think bonded over that 
I’d say up until covid, I was a part of the local brewery/craft cocktail scene for a good number of years. A lot less intense and more chill than the typical bar/club scene. I would go out with a mixed group of friends, and friends of those friends from work and some were single. My ex husband had a bunch of single guy friends as well that we would go out with. We would always be on the lookout for potential partners, but people/groups never really intermingled with others. I also know a few guys that will not approach a female they don’t know, or have a mutual connection with for fear of saying the wrong thing, getting snapped at, or being accused of ill intentions.
I read more and more that a lot of people in their late teens/early 20’s stay home a LOT more than we ever did and are reported to have a lot more anxiety than older generations. Younger generations are also choosing NOT to drink much or at all too. Dating and relationships also dont seem to be as important to them yet as that stuff was when I was that age. There are so many ways to be social that don’t include in person interaction and thats just the norm for that generation.
Depending on your stance with kids also can make things more challenging. There are a lot of single parents on the dating scene too and that can add more complexity than someone may be looking for as well.
I don’t envy anyone trying to date in the modern world.
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Well, I guess I should say that I don’t think most of us just went looking to meet strange guys at bars, but there was definitely a bar scene. I met my ex there as part of a group of guys who knew the former roommate of one of my roommates. But that was very often how you met people. Friends of friends, meeting up at a bar on a Friday night. Then you invited them to parties or outings after that, but this was pretty common in my experience.
Agreed. We simply did not have many other options. I remember there was a newspaper in my city that advertised small classes – I remember taking a 4 week set of golf lessons, and there were things like wine tasting groups, etc. It definitely wasn’t as easy, so going to bars with your friends and meeting friends of their friends was a more common way to meet new people.
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@ohmyheck Thank you for the great advice! I dramatically changed/simplified my profile so I think I’m on the right track. Most of my pictures are horse pictures and I did remove the junkie/addict stuff. I’m down to just Hinge right now and not really checking it all that much so I’m not attached to it in any way.
I’ll look into hiking clubs and outdoor clubs. I know there are many in LA. I used to rock climb in college so maybe I’ll look to join a club/climbing gym.
I do my best to ignore the negativity. I know a lot of it is just people projecting their own insecurities on to me so I don’t take it personally but the lack of success is what causes one to question, “Where did I go wrong?”, hence why sometimes I think I should have pursued a relationship many years ago. But the past can’t be changed so one must keep moving forward.
@FjordBCRF I don’t have Netflix but I have heard people talking about those shows and I can confirm that MANY people here approach dating the way those shows present it. It’s just one giant game and if you’re decently attractive, you’ve got options and you’re entertaining all of them without the others knowing (until you dump them all for “the one”) and even then, it’s all about dating and not actually finding someone of substance.
@S1969 I do realize now that I set myself up for a potentially rough time asking for advice here. But people have been kind, for the most part, and the advice with respect to changes I should make to my profile have been helpful. I can share my Hinge profile if you all would like (lots of horse pictures, I do actually ride 
)
Not every woman in LA is superficial but modern dating incentivizes one to be superficial, especially the apps. You’re essentially “shopping” for people and if you’re really into the apps, you essentially come to apply that to how you interact with people in the tangible world. All of this is great if you just want something casual and have fun, but it definitely doesn’t equip one with the ability to choose a long-term partner. I also think that now, more than ever, people present a fake facade. People tend to be more disingenuous, they’re afraid to reveal certain things about themselves, etc.
I definitely don’t send weird messages to women 
I know it’s very easy to misinterpret words on a screen so I choose my words carefully and ease my way into joking around. The rare few who have a sense of humor are the most enjoyable to talk to.
You’re both right in the sense that everything has changed, certainly over the past decade but post-COVID most specifically. My dance teacher knows most every dance bar/club in LA and she tells me they used to be packed every night with different people. Now, it’s a much smaller scene, usually composed of mostly regulars. A lot of people are staying home and not going out as you eluded to. My married friends all tell me about how their single friends just stay at home and don’t really do anything post-work. My trainer was telling me how her social life dwindled during COVID and she never really reconnected with friends since and not she mostly just works all the time. I suspect the woman I’m pursing isn’t going to be in a bar/club but if she’s at home all the time, I might be in trouble
Perhaps it’s a big city problem. I just got back from working on a cattle ranch in Colorado Springs and everyone there is so wholesome and happy. It made me realize how miserable so many people are in the big cities.
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My before/after covid life are night and day different. I got my horse in July of 2020 and never looked back. I have a richer social life because of it now, but it primarily exists in a barn setting I also completely stopped drinking alcohol to an allergy type sensitivity that had worsened over time, so bars don’t have much to offer me anymore. I like a good mocktail, but am not particularly interested in paying $12 at a minimum for one and as I get older, I like crowds less and less…and I didn’t like them much to begin with.
Someone should create a Home Body/Introvert Dating app!
Im sorry to hear Netflix is more accurate than I was hoping it would be 
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Looks are a really hot button issue for both men and women, because without a lot of expense and surgery, they are really hard to change. And sadly - for women, weight is something we really struggle with because of our hormonal profile which makes it a whole lot different than men’s experience with weight control. Former skinny chick here and man - was NOT expecting the Mr Toad’s wild ride that life took me on. Weight and health don’t necessarily go together for women, not like they do for men (speaking in broad generalizations). I don’t think you’re a jerk for mentioning it or anything like that, but I did want to remind the group that it’s not a 1-1.
All that being said - I also don’t think it’s necessarily ok for women to prefer men over 6’ tall. I think that’s a stupid aesthetic preference that has some weird basis in patriarchal society. I dated taller men (as a tall woman) and shorter men, and did not care one iota which they were. I think they had significantly more insecurities about it than I did.
I’m not of the opinion that people should be picky about looks (male OR female) in a dating environment, personally. Maybe it’d give a person a bonus point if all else was equal, but not as a rule out.
Because though we all have visually stimulating preferences (I always liked redheaded guys) we rarely find ourselves a compatible partner with those particular parameters (my husband is a brown haired, brown eyed, cuban dude - about as opposite to my “ideal mate” as humanly possible). It hasn’t limited physical expressions or enjoyment of canoeing in the least.
And in fact, my husband and I have changed each other significantly as he was overweight when I met him, I changed his diet just by virtue of how I eat, he got me lifting (I was a string bean who did not understand actually going to the gym - I was a distance runner), and we both have helped each other through middle age and injury (we met when I was 24 and he was 30). Do I have moments when I wish he could drag me along on his fitness journey instead of me initiating? Sure. Of course I do. But I’m sure he also wishes the same thing about other self-improvement activities and my involvement that we’ve undertaken through the years.
All that to say - dating is hard. I’m not sure I’d ever want to do it again, apps or no apps. The apps do feel…a bit more like you’re taking a test or writing code that you can pass/fail, iterate on, tweak, and get better results.
The reality is, dating should more be about an exploration of whether a person “fits” with you from a “can I work with this person to create a life”, and that’s so much more of an organic fluid process. It’s much more about deeper core values and personality traits than it is the surface stuff like looks, hobbies, or music tastes. On paper, my ex-husband was a great match for me. In person, it was awful and our divorce was wretched, because underneath it we had huge core values mismatches (well, and he was rather a narcissist with some wretched mommy issues 
)
Again - I wish you luck. I really do!
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IIRC a friend of mine, probably 15-ish years ago was using It’s Just Lunch. I thought she said she met 2 men in one DAY sometimes.
2 dates a month sounds ridiculously low.
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This is so true. I wouldn’t have picked my SO either. He’s short, chunky, and old (to me) and we are the perfect match. He’s a diesel mechanic and I was sent to him to get my truck fixed and the rest is history. I was living a wild and crazy single life not looking for a relationship at all.
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I tended toward blond guys but it was certainly not a hard and fast thing (no pun intended). The day I met my current husband 44 years ago, I thought to myself that I should never get involved with him, because he was losing his hair already at just turned 28. That’s one thing that has never changed for me–I don’t like the look of bald men or those who shave their head. I just happen to like nice hair on a man, the longer the better.
Anyway, I fell in love in spite of his losing his hair. And I got lucky–he hasn’t lost any more hair, and he’s 72 now. He keeps it on the long side because that’s what he prefers, and he has very flyaway hair, so cultivates an Einstein type look with the hair all over the place. It’s not looks that has kept us together all those years. He mentioned the other day that he usually dated dark haired women (I have dark hair where it’s not gray), but his first wife was blonde, and that didn’t last long. But I sure don’t look like I did at 22 when we first met. I don’t think we really see each other anymore, beyond “hey, you dropped some food on your shirt.” I could probably chop off my long hair and it would take him a week to notice. I’m not convinced that’s a bad thing. It shows a level of comfort with who we each are.
Rebecca
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DH dated tall blondes before me, I liked dark hair/eyes on guys. Neither of us got our “types” in marriage but we sure got a good “spark” and friendship that has seen us through a lot of crap times.
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I hate to say this but --yes. It’s true. I’m 65+ and a woman, single (for YEARS) with horses and not looking but I see women my age and I absolutely see this. And for men who have been…I’ll try to be tactful and I know my people picker is off, but… users their whole lives, they will say and do anything (for about 6 months) to get what they want. You just want to run for the hills.
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@Alterration Very well said! With regards to weight/health, to me it’s a lifestyle, a huge part of my life that I’ve had since I was very young. It’s something I profoundly value and something I want my spouse, whom I’m wanting to spend life with and have kids with, to also have.
That said, I don’t think it’s easy finding someone who shares all your core values in today’s world. Personalty traits and compatibility thereof is a bit easier but shared core values is difficult to come by. Again, maybe it’s just location.
@OTTBs It’s $5000 for 24 matches over the course of one year, 2 dates a month if you decided to actually go on the date with the match they have for you. They also have a $3000 option for one match/date a month for a total of 12 for the whole year. That is definitely fairly low, especially for what they charge you and they had really bad reviews.
I suspect matchmaking services have suffered quite as much with the changing dating scene which we have demonstrated has only gotten worse in every aspect. Not something I’ve ruled out completely but I’m very leery of actually doing something like that.
Completely understood on the value of a healthy lifestyle - just wanted to disconnect it to a degree from weight, because it really isn’t the same thing
I suspect your location has a lot to do with those other core values mismatches. Maybe extending that is a good idea? I think you’ll be likely to find many more “real” people outside of LA. Although…I had a good friend and ex-coworker recently go through this online dating thing. Nice guy - very conventionally attractive and fit, over 6’ (because people think that matters) - to the extent that even my married friends call him the “really hot one” when they meet him. We’re in STL, so a reasonably big city, and fairly down to earth and midwestern.
He said the experience was really hard on the ego, which surprised me since in “normal-dating-land” - the one we all used to participate in - he’d have been snapped up pretty readily. I know I definitely would have been interested had I been not married (and one husband is quite enough TYVM ). We’ve been friends for a few years and there’s nothing overtly objectionable about him - good job, intelligent and fun to talk to, maybe a bit overenergetic at times (we worked together and often I wanted to put my hand on his forehead and tell him to quit vibrating) - but generally speaking a successful, attractive, guy in his early 40s.
So unless he just sucked with conversations when he was actually talking to women he wanted to date (as opposed to his coworkers, the female of which all adored him), he should have been successful pretty easily. I don’t know how he was in those conversations as we never dated, but he did mention that women that he spoke to online were “thirsty” LOL So I suspect a lot of people get on there for either online affairs, which is why they ghost, or aren’t really interested in dating but rather seeing whether the pool is warm or cold.
He did finally get married - lovely gal - but it took a long time - 4 or so years at least.
I suspect the matchmaking services are probably a better bet, but also meeting people organically as much as possible.
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I extended my location on the apps by 50 miles, maybe I need to go farther
From my conversations with women, many are on the apps not actually looking to date. They’re on there for the attention/validation, the Instagram followers, the OnlyFans subscribers, etc. I know women in relationships who still are on the apps so back to my original post, I really don’t know how people are genuinely meeting each other on these things when so many people on there aren’t actually on there to date/find a relationship. If you filter out people who aren’t on there to date, then filter out people you don’t find attractive, you’re dealing with a very, very, small population and then once you’ve considered things like values, it almost defeats the purpose of the apps since you’re down to such a small demographic of people.
It sounds like your friend fits the bill for someone who would do really well on apps but what kind of women he’s getting attention from could definitely be why he took so long to find someone of substance. I’m sure many women on the apps saw him as a “boytoy” and wanted something hot and fast with him rather than a marriage.
The matchmaking does sound intriguing but something about spending several thousand dollars just to have someone find me a spouse feels a bit odd to me. There definitely is no substitute to meeting organically.
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TBH this is how the apps sounded to me when they first came out as well Eharmony sounded intriguing with it’s “scientific approach” when it first came out but a divorced couple friend of ours (we were friends with both ex-spouses) got matched which we found hilarious, in part because they got divorced because of what they found to be fundamental incompatibilities. Well, that and he encouraged her to experiment with non-monogamy and apparently that didn’t go well. Does it even exist anymore?
You mentioned filtering out those you don’t find attractive. I know men are visual creatures, historically, but if I were having non-luck I might try dating a few that didn’t check all of my visual boxes but checked my mental boxes. The best foundation for a good marriage is friendship. S*xual attraction can grow and is often not felt through a screen. Chemistry is an odd bird.
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