…just like horses…dreams can be shattered and bank balances diminished.
[QUOTE=Marshfield;8613328]
This really, really depends upon the breed. I assist with rescue through my regional breed club. We have many more homes waiting than we have dogs coming in to rescue (a good thing overall). Same for my husband’s breed. And very, very few of the dogs which come in to corgi rescue are good examples of the breed. The folks breeding the good examples of the breed take back their own before rescue ever gets involved. Our rescue group most frequently gets pet store dogs.[/QUOTE]
That’s true. I’ve worked with collie, cocker and Old English Sheepdog rescue. You don’t see many OES in rescue. All good breeders will take back a dog, so will all good rescues.
@ Houndhill - I remember that story about your puppy a while back; while the path you took would not have sat well with Tornado Run Farm’s old German friend, I suspect, I’m glad you took a humane route with your puppy.
@ Tornado Run Farm - I find the story about your German friend culling (euthenizing) unsuitable puppies (and dogs) pretty unsettling in parts, I guess, but it was enlightening, also. Did he ever discuss why he bred in the first place? Was he trying to better the breed? Or make money? Or a bit of both? I may be wrong, but I honestly don’t think breeders would keep on breeding if they kept losing a lot of money. Not that every breeder is in it for the money, of course not, but a little cash here and there never hurts.
Interesting conversation!
I think most good breeders are trying to produce their future champions in whatever discipline they are into
[QUOTE=Romany;8616548]
I may be wrong, but I honestly don’t think breeders would keep on breeding if they kept losing a lot of money. Not that every breeder is in it for the money, of course not, but a little cash here and there never hurts.[/QUOTE]
Most of the breeders I know might “make money” on the breeding (assuming no major medical problems), but achieving the titles to make the breeding “worthy” is pretty expensive.
My show dog has a Bronze-level GCH, has a big handful of nice Best of Breeds, 2 Specialty Bests of Breeds, lots of “2nd place” ribbons. I have probably shown him…about…I don’t know…maybe 60 times? maybe 70 times? Just the entry fees alone would total over $2K - I can’t even imagine what the expenses would include - gas, hotels, food, grooming supplies, grooming expenses, my show clothes, leads, collars, toys, crates, dog food, win photos, chiropractor, etc. I’ve also done some hunting tests with him as well.
I would guess that I’ve probably spent over $5K on “showing” him - not even counting the show entry fees. Then health clearance/repro vet bills of nearly $1K. I have semen stored - $500/collection + $100/year. So we’re up to nearly $9K…and he’s been bred to once. 
@S1969 - wow, those are some high expenses! Guessing at “GCH”…good…? I do remember FTCh from my youth, pronounced in our household as Fuh Tuh Chuh.
I would not breed my dogs. Not because they aren’t amazing hunting dogs (JUST hunting, no titles or anything else, they have just proven themselves in the field). I wouldn’t breed them because then I’d want to keep every single rotten, naughty little puppy. And the last thing I need is a house full of Chesapeakes!!! I want that, but I certainly don’t need it.
[QUOTE=Romany;8616779]
@S1969 - wow, those are some high expenses! Guessing at “GCH”…good…? I do remember FTCh from my youth, pronounced in our household as Fuh Tuh Chuh. :)[/QUOTE]
Really, my expenses are very low because I handle my dog myself. Imagine if you were paying $100 every one of those 50 times in the ring on top of the other costs! That’s what makes breeding expensive.
Is it necessary to show that much to be used for breeding - yes, at least for males - because you can get semen from anywhere in the country if you want. If your dog is not out being seen, it’s not that likely you’ll ever get asked for stud service. I really don’t even show my dog that much compared to people who have their dogs out with handlers.
GCH is Grand Champion. I got really lucky and my dog is very nice. It’s been fun to show him because we are usually in the ribbons somewhere. But it is an expensive hobby for 2 minutes in front of the judge and a $3 ribbon. LOL.
Bottom line though - most people don’t breed their dogs to make money. It’s hobby/sport - just like riding - not a business.
I still think there is a market for good health checked smartly bred dogs for families. Dogs bred for quality in disposition and trainability as well as longetivity.
[QUOTE=roseymare;8617074]
I still think there is a market for good health checked smartly bred dogs for families. Dogs bred for quality in disposition and trainability as well as longetivity.[/QUOTE]
Not every pup in each litter will be the next show champion or K9 or field champion, etc.
So from those reputable breeders that breed only health tested, titled/proven dogs, there will be plenty of “family pets” available. There is NO need to purposely breed for just pets.
Based on EF’s recent post maybe we ought to let this thread go for now. I think she’s understanding quite well the heartache of breeding. Hugs EF 
[QUOTE=mommy peanut;8617111]
Not every pup in each litter will be the next show champion or K9 or field champion, etc.
So from those reputable breeders that breed only health tested, titled/proven dogs, there will be plenty of “family pets” available. There is NO need to purposely breed for just pets.[/QUOTE]
Then why are there so many puppy mills and brokers?
The market is there. I see them all of the time.
A small breeder breeding for family dogs and doing all of the right things from a health standpoint should not be shunned. They should be embraced because puppy mills sure shouldn’t be and that is where people are getting purebreds from for the most part.
I’ll just quickly throw my two cents in here. Count me in with the group who passionately detests dog breeding. There’s no real reason for it. Spay your dog; she’ll be a lot happier. There are already enough homeless animals in the world.
I don’t know what it is with the horse community and this dog breed snobbery. Rescues are great. And there are breed-specific rescues if you want a pure-bred dog for whatever reason. Why contribute to the overpopulation? For every puppy you sell, there is a rescue who doesn’t get adopted.
steps off soapbox
[QUOTE=Tornado Run Farm;8615287]
Admittedly I haven’t read every single post, but here is my take: Do you have the cojones necessary to be a responsible, reputable dog breeder - even for “pet quality?” Would you willing to cull your stock for congenital defects, temperament or other reasons?
I’ve known several professional dog breeders over the years, but none that made as much impact on me as a German gentleman I met many, many years ago. He bred Borzois, Whippets and German Shepherds, and was a professional top dog show judge that would often times travel across the U.S. & back to Germany to judge and conduct other breed related business. Enter me - I was very young and was hired to be the live-in kennel help while he was away. He allowed me to bring with me a year-old non-papered, intact, male Lab while living in the garage apt. Even though I knew the “ground rules,” which included keeping my dog on lead or kenneled at all times when about the grounds, I was lax and didn’t do it one day - I mean the dog came when called, right? Well, his Champion GS bitch got out when I was cleaning her run, and poof - both MY dog and the GS bitch took off and were gone all day. I owned up to it when this man returned, and sure enough - a few weeks later we knew his Champion bitch was bred to my Lab. I was calling and making sure I had all kinds of happy homes lined up who wanted the puppies, but he would always say, “not necessary.” When the bitch was close to whelping he took the dog into his house to whelp, which was his custom. I then learned what “not necessary” meant - he euthanized each and every puppy as it was born. Hard lesson for me, but he was a purist with his breed and did what he thought was necessary to preserve it.
I always kept in touch with this man - he ended up being a wonderful teacher & mentor, and a person who I held in high esteem. He would always say there was no such thing as a show quality pet - if that dog wasn’t shown, as most even purebred dogs aren’t, then they were pets.
Late in his years he gave up breeding, dissipated his brood stock, and moved out west. There he was given a wonderful Champion German brood bitch from one of his colleagues (wasn’t a GS, but one of those German guard dog breeds). He loved this dog, and she was a great companion for him in his elderly years. Afterwards - don’t know the exact sequence of events -he was given a stud dog, too, of the same breed, and he was toying with breeding them. But on three different occasions his beloved bitch got to the male and ravaged him - he had no control over her. The final time you know what he did? He took his bitch out to the woods and shot her - then called the breeder and told her the line should be culled. I was dumbfounded - and asked why he didn’t just spay her and get rid of the stud dog. His logic was very simple - he didn’t know how many years he had left and it would be irresponsible of him to allow that dog to end up potentially hurting someone after he was gone - spayed or not.
Anyway - I think very few of us would react similarly if faced with the same circumstances. But he was an example of what I consider a reputable dog breeder. It’s not for the feint of heart if done responsibly & ethically and just not litter “pets” to the winds.[/QUOTE]
I don’t breed dogs but he is an asshat plain and simple.
[QUOTE=dappled;8617403]
I’ll just quickly throw my two cents in here. Count me in with the group who passionately detests dog breeding. There’s no real reason for it. Spay your dog; she’ll be a lot happier. There are already enough homeless animals in the world.
I don’t know what it is with the horse community and this dog breed snobbery. Rescues are great. And there are breed-specific rescues if you want a pure-bred dog for whatever reason. Why contribute to the overpopulation? For every puppy you sell, there is a rescue who doesn’t get adopted.
steps off soapbox[/QUOTE]
I am about as anti-breeding as they come, having spent a good amount of time volunteering at a local shelter.
But… and it is a big but… I see nothing wrong with responsible breeders breeding pure bred dogs that have a purpose. I also see nothing wrong with people wanting a dog of a certain breed, and I much prefer that if someone wants a dog of a certain breed that they get it from a responsible breeder that cares about the breed, not just their check book.
Both my dogs are adoption mutts, I totally get that way of thinking. It does not, to me, mean that good quality pure bred dogs should not be bred to make more good quality pure bred dogs.
Impulse buyers who look at cute puppies and say “Ooohhh – I want!!” without thinking the decision through. Also, it seems like few “pet” people want to take the time to wait on the “planned” litter with the reputable breeder. Unfortunately, these frequently wind up being the purebreds that you find in shelters and rescues. Good breeders take care of their own.
[QUOTE=dappled;8617403]
I’ll just quickly throw my two cents in here. Count me in with the group who passionately detests dog breeding. There’s no real reason for it. Spay your dog; she’ll be a lot happier. There are already enough homeless animals in the world.
I don’t know what it is with the horse community and this dog breed snobbery. Rescues are great. And there are breed-specific rescues if you want a pure-bred dog for whatever reason. Why contribute to the overpopulation? For every puppy you sell, there is a rescue who doesn’t get adopted.
steps off soapbox[/QUOTE]
I find this attitude rather ridiculous. Responsible dog breeders are in no way responsible for the pet over population problem. They are responsible for every puppy they produce. They are NOT responsible for the dogs in shelters, although many are involved in helping these dogs through their breed rescue.
It is disingenuous to say that if someone wants a breed X puppy, and can not acquire it, that they will then go out and adopt an adult breed Y dog from a shelter.
There is not a pet over population problem in my area. In fact, the rescues truck dogs in from other parts of the country, and the world, by the thousands to satisfy demand. There are a lot of breed rescues that have long waiting lists and few available dogs.
If responsible breeders stop breeding there would be no purebred dogs, or at least none of quality. Perhaps that is some people want.
[QUOTE=Incantation;8617619]
I find this attitude rather ridiculous. Responsible dog breeders are in no way responsible for the pet over population problem. They are responsible for every puppy they produce. They are NOT responsible for the dogs in shelters, although many are involved in helping these dogs through their breed rescue.
It is disingenuous to say that if someone wants a breed X puppy, and can not acquire it, that they will then go out and adopt an adult breed Y dog from a shelter.
…
If responsible breeders stop breeding there would be no purebred dogs, or at least none of quality. Perhaps that is some people want.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I wound up with a purebred dog strictly by chance (stray at the barn) but now that I’ve had him for a few years I’m hooked on the breed and I really can’t see owning anything else. Should I want another dog, I will certainly seek out another purebred - I have a better chance at getting the temperament that I want. But because this is also a popular breed with a huge range of types, I would seek out specific breeders who produce my type (easy dog, active companion vs. high drive working). Or, more likely, I’d go the breed rescue route and let them match me up with an adult.
[QUOTE=dappled;8617403]
I’ll just quickly throw my two cents in here. Count me in with the group who passionately detests dog breeding. There’s no real reason for it. Spay your dog; she’ll be a lot happier. There are already enough homeless animals in the world.
I don’t know what it is with the horse community and this dog breed snobbery. Rescues are great. And there are breed-specific rescues if you want a putre-bred dog for whatever reason. Why contribute to the overpopulation? For every puppy you sell, there is a rescue who doesn’t get adopted.
steps off soapbox[/QUOTE]
From my perspective, I want a dog that I know where it came from, I want to know it’s had the health testing for the breed, shots, etc. I want at least a good idea of temperament.
I have small grandkids, indoor cats and other dogs. I’m not risking any of those on an unknown dog coming in the home. Too many horror stories. It would be different if I had none of these concerns.
But my cats are all humane society cats :). And everything I own is altered.
[QUOTE=Incantation;8617619]
I find this attitude rather ridiculous. Responsible dog breeders are in no way responsible for the pet over population problem. They are responsible for every puppy they produce. They are NOT responsible for the dogs in shelters, although many are involved in helping these dogs through their breed rescue.
It is disingenuous to say that if someone wants a breed X puppy, and can not acquire it, that they will then go out and adopt an adult breed Y dog from a shelter.
There is not a pet over population problem in my area. In fact, the rescues truck dogs in from other parts of the country, and the world, by the thousands to satisfy demand. There are a lot of breed rescues that have long waiting lists and few available dogs.
If responsible breeders stop breeding there would be no purebred dogs, or at least none of quality. Perhaps that is some people want.[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, but breeders are absolutely responsible for the unwanted dog population. Like I said, for every puppy they produce and sell, the homeless dog population stays stagnant. If they’re not producing, people will only have the option of adopting rescues, thus reducing the population of homeless animals.
The argument that purebreds are somehow “quality” dogs is BS. I’m tired of hearing people say they want a “quality” dog. Seriously? It makes me want to roll my eyes back into my head. At the end of the day, a dog is a dog. They will still be happy to see you when you get home, and they will still give the same amount of love. Not to mention, reputable shelters go through behavior and temperament tests with each dog they take in, so the “I want to know what I’m getting” argument is just an excuse. You do know what you’re getting, and you have your pick of hundreds of rescue dogs - surely you will be able to find one with the temperament you desire.
Shame on parents who “buy” dogs for their children. Teaching my kids about compassion and giving an animal in need a home is far more important to me than being able to parade around “quality” purebred dog.
