I’ll have to remember to pour myself some wine tonight and wander back over here.
Couple of years ago when longeing my young mare (in a halter), blood started trickling from mare’s mouth. I stopped her, check her mouth, pulled the dangling baby tooth and…continued with longeing. And she felt ‘so’ much better after I removed that loose tooth. She did not bleed to death, nor was she particularly concerned about the little bit of bleeding.
I am amazed the folks really looking to make a mountain out of this probable molehill, in the absence of ANY facts. What stupidity.
I think the “just shoot me” comment was directed at the thread directly above it? I agreed, for what it’s worth. I don’t think I would have dismounted if I didn’t see anything obviously wrong and was part way through a beautiful and sound test…probably would have simply ridden out on a loose rein.
That said, I did feel decidedly less sympathetic after viewing the still photos where the muzzle touches the chest…
I really like this quote from her in the CoTH article:
“I don’t know the exact score, but he was really going well in the warm-up, and he was doing amazing in the ring. So it’s really shitty that we can’t show that. But on the other hand I’m quite happy that he’s OK, and I can start the training tomorrow again. It’s nothing really serious with the horse.”
Nothing like talking about how shitty the situation is for her at the same time those warm-up photos are circulating. But, luckily, it is a minor injury so she can continue to ream on her horse’s face tomorrow. Class act. Especially with the “oh boo hoo this is so shitty for me” in an interview in a prominent publication.
Frankly, the international dressage community should be EMBARASSED by those warm-up photos and should be doing something about it. But, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Who cares if the emperor has no clothes. What a laughing-stock.
Ok fellow COTHers I don’t come on here too often because I really do try to think and rethink before I type (hence the low replies) but this incident with AC and Parzivals ’ cut lip/tongue (whatever) is just over the top. Being an old h/j person I have only admired Grand Prix dressage from afar. With that being said I have spent a lot of time in indoor arenas watching people ride and I don’t think I could stomach that kind of schooling. (pictures 2 and 4 and 12 - is that poor Parzival in 12? on the St. Georg site) Forget the editing! That is just bad riding and dare I say it bad rollikur! I thought dressage was supposed to be all about invisible aids and I really do understand overiding while training but YUCK! And here is the irony - TEAM GOLD. Congrats, I guess. :sigh:
[QUOTE=Mara;5124616]
I’m sure there are lots of people who will jump to the worst possible conclusions (no, it hasn’t happened here and it wouldn’t be limited to COTH in any case).
But it might be something as simple as the horse biting his tongue. It does happen.[/QUOTE]
Happened to me at a show. I ride in a regular old snaffle and my horse is quite light so I wasn’t hauling back on the reins but he did end up biting his tongue.
Guess I have to keep reading to see what the case was here.
ETA: I don’t mean to imply that you approve of this type of riding, since I don’t know you. The remark just jumped out at me.
[/quote]
Nah, no offense taken. But to clarify: all I meant was that she is a skilled rider who very likely uses a lot of rollkur at home - so I find it highly unlikely she doesn’t know the limits of her horse and that technique at this point. His mouth is likely toughened/used to it, and she knows how far to push.
I’m not supporting the method at all or saying I like it even a little bit, just that it’s HIGHLY unlikely in my mind this tongue biting incident was directly caused by her use of rollkur.
If people want to go with very indirect causation, perhaps her use of rollkur has made him slightly fidgety in his mouth or slightly nervous which could cause him to be more likely to accidentally bite his tongue. But that’s a roundabout reason and speculation at best.
Also, I think her response was perfectly appropriate. There was a bit of blood, not a gusher, and she was on the world stage. There was no reason for her to get off and freak out about a tiny tongue nick - especially since he had been performing absolutely spot on until that point. She popped her head around enough to catch a glimpse of the red-tinged foam, and tossed her reins to let him know they were done.
Granted, I’ve actually been on and around a few horses who’ve accidentally bitten their tongues during work (or at other times), and it’s usually more blood than the teensy nick would indicate - so I wouldn’t be the type to get overly concerned. Examine the situation calmly, then freak out as needed = )
As much as I dislike rollkur, I do not wish this kind of disqualification on anyone. Also, even for the extreme anti-rollkur folks - this event will not do anything to encourage her to not use rollkur (since the DQ was not related to her use of rollkur), so there’s no reason to rejoice in her situation.
OK, apparently I’ve been sleeping a while, but where the heck did this “rollkur” come from? I am no dressage queen but never in any of my training, whether dressage or h/j has any trainer ever encouraged me to ride a horse behind the vertical (and rollkur is a new definition of “behind the vertical” in my eyes; yikes). Why is that now considered (apparently) acceptable training? :eek: Can someone try to explain? Thanks.
[QUOTE=bort84;5125794]
Also, even for the extreme anti-rollkur folks - this event will not do anything to encourage her to not use rollkur (since the DQ was not related to her use of rollkur), so there’s no reason to rejoice in her situation.[/QUOTE]
Where do you get the impression anybody’s rejoicing?
On the other hand I certainly don’t think she deserves to get her own RULE CHANGE, either now or after the fact. The bottom line for me is that if your horse, my horse, her horse, anybody’s horse is bleeding in the ring, that person needs to GO, and the cause needs to be determined later by somebody other than that person’s team vet.
This picture of Ravel is nothing like the picture of the Dutch horse (Parzival?).
Ravel’s head is not all the way to his chest, nor is there any tension in SP’s arms or hands, nor in Ravel’s topline.
Compare the 2 pictures and they show an entirely different training technique: One is overbent (far be it from me to say why) and the other is a rider hauling on a horse’s mouth as hard as she can – The horse is showing tension? pain? fear? all of the above – in his face.
And she has 2 bits in his mouth, one with a longish shank. A curb chain (done up quite tightly the next day, hard to see here) and a crank noseband!
I’m surprised the horse hasn’t bucked her off – but I guess he is used to it.
So much for being able to enjoy the beauty of a lovely dressage test. I will always have this picture in mind when seeing a GP dressage horse in the ring.
Oh good heavens- if I can readily determine at a glance that the full extent of, let’s say, a hangnail…is just that…a hangnail…must I schedule an appt with a plastic surgeon?
If I manage to bite my own tongue whilst eating dinner, and I look in the mirror and say dang that hurt, that’s where it is…must I get additional confirmation of my tongue’s situation with a dentist? An ENT? Who?
How many layers of review would satisfy the teeming, blood-flecked foaming masses…that the horse simply bit his tongue? How many would it take, to make it true? What is your reasonable? B/C my reasonable is ‘the vet examined him, he bit his tongue’. One cannot draw a clear and distinct and inviolate line between the awful warm-up pics…and his bitten tongue. You want to, but you can’t. And it’s driving some of you batty(er). It is ***** to come so far and fail to get to show at the highest level- it’s true. You may want her to hug his hoof and staunch his long-past-dried-up-tongue-but nope, she stood up and took it and said it like she sees it. It’s shitty.
I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. I think from what I can tell in your post we’re in total agreement, so it’s possible you misunderstood my post.
Though most aren’t “rejoicing” exactly, I think it’s pretty obvious some here are rather pleased she had this incident. That’s why I mentioned the anti-rollkur fanatics in my post to clarify between them and those like me who are anti-rollkur but try not to be too crazy about it.
I think she absolutely got what the rules required. She knows it, everyone else knows it. That’s not in dispute for a second - and I did not intend for my post to imply I felt differently.
However, I would vastly have preferred if the karma bug had bitten her by way of a steward dinging her for her use of rollkur in the warm up yesterday, rather than the tongue biting incident today which will do nothing to deter her from using rollkur in the future.
Does that help to clarify? Because I was really only calling out the extreme anti-rollkur folks (and there are a few on this board) in my “rejoicing” comment, not most of us = ) And the term “rejoice” was a bit of hyperbole as well. More appropriate would probably be “smugly pleased on the inside.”
Ok , just had my faith restored in dressage…watching Dr. Reiner Klimke and Ahlerich at the '84 Olympics. FORWARD - yes! What a pair - sooo much fun to watch! Both of them are grinning at the end!
I think it is absoltutely tragic that 4 years of very hard work on behalf of Adelinde literally went to waste in a split second. You can’t deny that this rider and this horse are very talented, and I would have loved to have seen it play out without the horse innocently biting its tongue…even though the rule is the rule and she had to be eliminated.
The fact that people are judging this rider/young woman because she didn’t collapse on her horse’s neck in tears is RIDICULOUS! I am sure she went back to her barn and cried and that she’s devastated but glad that her horse is healthy.
The reaction to a few photos is on par with a witch hunt. I found it odd that the pictures of the Adelinde Cornilissen and Patrick Kittle stood out oddly among all of the other photos on St. Georg as if it were promoting an agenda. (how’s that for witch hunt). If you take enough photos, you will find enough bad ones of everyone…take for example this one that I found.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;5125831]
This picture of Ravel is nothing like the picture of the Dutch horse (Parzival?).
Ravel’s head is not all the way to his chest, nor is there any tension in SP’s arms or hands, nor in Ravel’s topline.
Compare the 2 pictures and they show an entirely different training technique: One is overbent (far be it from me to say why) and the other is a rider hauling on a horse’s mouth as hard as she can – The horse is showing tension? pain? fear? all of the above – in his face.
And she has 2 bits in his mouth, one with a longish shank. A curb chain (done up quite tightly the next day, hard to see here) and a crank noseband!
I’m surprised the horse hasn’t bucked her off – but I guess he is used to it.
So much for being able to enjoy the beauty of a lovely dressage test. I will always have this picture in mind when seeing a GP dressage horse in the ring.
Sausages, politics and now dressage…[/QUOTE]
well he did break her arm… i was thinking about it today after watching her surf on his face… how hard does the pressure need to be to snap a human arm?
[QUOTE=good booie;5125031]
Who [edit] are you mbm to criticize how she rides??? [edit]
that video brought tears to my eyes. The rider handled it as graciously as anyone could. Sure, there may be more to this story but for now my heartmost feelings go out to the Dutch.[/QUOTE]
who am i? why just a nobody with a big mouth and eyes, that can SEE surfing on a horses face when it occurs.
Witch Hunt? And who is exaggerating? Posting on a public forum is hardly tantamount to physically burning, branding, piercing, or contorting the body of said rider. Not comparable.
Here are the facts. 1: Pictures were posted of the rider using what many consider an inhumane training practice that involves the bit; 2: The next day, rider gets eliminated for an injury to her horse in the region she was abusing the day before.
Why is it so wild and crazy that people would be upset about that? That they might draw conclusions about the possible connection between the training method and the injury? I think it is somewhat odd not to make that observation. While correlation does not equal causation, it certainly increases the probability of a connection.
:sigh:
