Edward Gal & Totilas 92.3% GPF at Olympia

[hb]

He doesn’t really look like the big lick horses (note to self - NEVER Google “big lick videos” again - regardless of how you feel about the TWH many very ‘interesting’ non-horse related videos come up in the search!)

But his trot doesn’t look like a trot. Jump on me all you want - no I’ve never ridden a horse to Grand Prix or even PSG, no I’m not posting my resume on line or pics of my fat a$$ riding to prove to everyone that I am somehow qualified enough to disagree with all the other on-line “experts” here.

But I know what a trot is and honestly, I was trying to figure out what movement he was doing at that point in the test, and then looked on the score sheet to see it was extended trot.

I also do think he seems like a very athletic, sweet and compliant horse.

Some posters have mentioned that he moved differently when he was younger, does anyone have video links they could post? Just curious to see the difference.

[alicen]

Aleks, I love this video. And what a surprise, given the context! (" This shows a normal walk, and I choose it because the horse is walking on a road, the hoof falls can be heard, and thus the the four beats can be heard clearly." ) However, a normal walk on a free rein is not a movement called for in an FEI Grand Prix test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfPTCpBhhMA

[Aleks27]

[QUOTE=alicen;4565535]
Aleks, I love this video. And what a surprise, given the context! (" This shows a normal walk, and I choose it because the horse is walking on a road, the hoof falls can be heard, and thus the the four beats can be heard clearly." ) However, a normal walk on a free rein is not a movement called for in an FEI Grand Prix test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfPTCpBhhMA[/QUOTE]

Yes, but it should still have four clear beats if it is a walk, right? Maybe “normal” wasn’t the right word to use, but the point is still there. Then again I may be wrong, and the speed of the walk may be throwing me off. What did you think of it?

[Plantagenet]

the best thing…

about my question is that slc2 and egontoast agreed!!!

anatomically speaking, anyway.

so now, do I get to 'splain to you two, what ‘connected’ means in the context of dressage?

[slc2]

Oh please, do tell.

Connected - means that the circle of the aids is complete - energy is sent forward from the thrust of the haunches over the back to the bridle, where it is met and ‘recycled’ with a quiet hand and half halts, allowing the horse to move correctly, reach his neck out to where (ever) the bit is, so that he takes up the rein consistently. The back is neither dropped down or braced upward stiffly, instead the muscles of the back ripple and play just as the muscles of the shoulder and haunch do.

A horse that is ‘connected’ appears to flow to the bridle all in one continuous piece, with smooth, continuous, supple motion of his legs, without any pause, hesitation, or halting of motion. Half halts travel right through the body and affect the amount of engagement of the hind legs visibly. It can be seen and observed, clearly.

Most of the time, Totilas is very well connected. He has a bit of a cresty neck, and he’s very energetic and sometimes tightens up, as we said he is a youngster who at times can tighten up and get overdone in the extended trot, and his back is a little soft and his hip a little prominent, so he doesn’t always give the same impression as other horses, look at the way the muscle makes a bridge, instead of the exact position.

I think your mistake might be in assuming that since the horse makes incorrect steps at times in the extended trot, that everything he does is extremely faulty. It isn’t, which is what makes things more complicated to fully understand. If it were all completely screwed up, life would be much simpler. The extended trot is also becoming more correct. Mr. Edward HHHHAAAL is obviously reading COH diligently.

[siegi_b]

slc - do you ever put a lid on it? … I don’t think I’ve ever known another person that could say so little with so many words…

[ThreeFigs]

:lol:

[ladyofthedawn]

[QUOTE=siegi b.;4566061]
slc - do you ever put a lid on it? … I don’t think I’ve ever known another person that could say so little with so many words…[/QUOTE]

When you make a book out of the postings of SLC it must be 10 times the telephone book of China an India together.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=Bats79;4563002]
I’m still gobsmacked that Stephen Clarke can be using such an incorrect picture on the front of his book.

This is the man who is supposed to have said “the only thing wrong here is that we can’t give the horse higher than 10”.

And we are supposed to now take Stephen Clarke as an independant judge? Most disillusioning.[/QUOTE]

have you ever listened to those top judges talk? they sound like politicians - they say words but they mean nothing and contradict each other.

Dressage is at the edge and i think we have gone over. I thought Matine’ was bad enough but now there is the freak that is Totilas - how anyone can say he is correct is beyond me. sure, he collects well… but for pete’s sake - he is completely upside down most of the time, his neck is crammed into his spine, and the tension is tremendous.

but wait! who cares! he sells tickets!

anyway… sorry for the rant… i just see my beloved sport being pimped for $$ and thrills and it pisses me off no end.

(i do want to give props where props are due : to the few folks who do train correctly and who do for the most part have relaxed and supple horses… they are few and far between but they do exist…),

<steps down off soapbox>

i hope everyone has a happy holiday season!

[mbm]

[QUOTE=Plantagenet;4565053]
I’m interested to know who thinks Totilas is using his back to connect his back end to the front end?[/QUOTE]

ha! we should do a poll…

[mbm]

[QUOTE=caddym;4564873]
I thought it was a fantastic and generous demonstration. I saw a lot I will try to get at home - the tempo control especially and I think that was a perfect example of working pirouettes.

I REALLY like this mare (although I really have a personally preference for mares)

I did not see anything “odd” about it. Perhaps slc2, you could post a video of yourself? Or even some pictures from your shows? Mine are up here.[/QUOTE]

correct me if i am wrong - but isnt tempo supposed to never vary? ie: all trots, P&P should have the same tempo, same with all canters etc.

so i dont get this whole idea of changing tempos… ?

[J-Lu]

@mbm;4566226

correct me if i am wrong - but isnt tempo supposed to never vary? ie: all trots, P&P should have the same tempo, same with all canters etc.

so i dont get this whole idea of changing tempos… ?

In theory, but in practice it does vary. In practice, the passage tempo is often slower than the collected trot and often piaffe in order to accomodate “hang time”. Freestyles have different tempos for the different phases of trot to underline this.

Can you point to a GP level freestyle that is uniform on the metronome within each gait? Please link to it.

[mbm]

J-Lu - so, if in theory the goal is to have even tempo - why are people training differing tempos?

that was my question.

[ladyofthedawn]

Jezzzzzzz , Edward was talking about controlling the tempo. If you don’t have control over the tempo you don’t have control over your horse <period> .

MBM, What has somebody to do to make it more clear to you. Are you here for therapeutic reasons, did you ever ride a horse ? Controlling the tempo of a horse is the start (or should be the start) for every rider. (and I’m not only talking about dressage)

[J-Lu]

Because horses are moving (as opposed to people are training) in different tempos.

[ladyofthedawn]

[QUOTE=mbm;4566263]
J-Lu - so, if in theory the goal is to have even tempo - why are people training differing tempos?

that was my question.[/QUOTE]

It’s very clear to me that you are the roll model of a keyboard rider :lol:

[egontoast]

Hmm? Seems obvious that since you want to be able to control the tempo, you train in different tempos . What is confusing about that?

[caddym]

[QUOTE=mbm;4566226]
correct me if i am wrong - but isnt tempo supposed to never vary? ie: all trots, P&P should have the same tempo, same with all canters etc.

so i dont get this whole idea of changing tempos… ?[/QUOTE]

The way that I think about it…and this may be an arguement of semantics…is that the RHTHYM ( the clear one, two three of the canter for example) does not change - but the tempo does get bigger or smaller (I’m thinking in my head of the difference in a pirouette canter vs an extended camter)

This idea of tempo change is not new nor exclusively Dutch. In the 1999 USDF National Dressage Symphosium, Conrad Schumacher touched on “speed control” several times.

[TBROCKS]

[QUOTE=dressurpferd01;4560323]
None but a very few riders can ever hope to ride that movement. I see no good coming from all this.[/QUOTE]

So? He’s an elite rider on an elite horse. As a training/first rider, it doesn’t threaten me in the least that I’ll never be able to ride a horse like that. Gal made it look easy, effortless and beautiful. Why the hate?

[canyonoak]

Speed control and changing tempos is about obedience/focus and engagement/strength exercises.

You want the horse to ‘wait’ for your aid, you want the horse to focus on your side of the conversation, and speed control, done properly is an effective tool.

Not the only tool but a useful one.

Changing tempos takes the horse out of its comfort zone and asks for more engagement, more energy, more whatever, and helps the horse to find the work easier.
And as Dr. Klimke liked to say, ‘A horse will do anything he thinks is easy. The hard part is for us to use the muscle between our ears to figure out how to present the work so the horse t6hinks it is easy.’

Tools are only as good as the person using them.