I cannot speak for the Arabian industry, I don’t typically show that circuit. I have only taken Arabs for the Hunter Pleasure and Road Hack classes and typically do not stay to watch the rest of the show.
What do you mean by “a law would have no effect on those breeds because they would already have eliminated the packages?”
Stack of pads? Take a look at any picture of WGC Along Came a Spider
Too much foot? Take a look at any picture of WGC Our Charming Lady.
These are wins in recent years, at the VERY top. No excuse for putting a ridiculous amount of shoe, foot or pad on a horse. None.
Are these suppose to be good examples? Because a quick google search showed me horses with insanely long feet and very thick pads on…
I mean if all the breeds got rid of the heavy shoes and wedge pads all by themselves, since they say light is better, they wouldn’t have to be all up in arms that the soring/TWH laws might affect them. No horse needs a huge wedge pad, a heavy weighted shoe or a band to hold it all on. It’s not beneficial for the horse…it’s only for people. (and I’m not talking about a therapeutic shoe or pad for health reasons).
Road Hack for Arabians?? No such thing.
The barn I started riding at was an ASB barn, so I didn’t know any better. The more I learned, the more disgusted I became by how they were altering a naturally gorgeous, athletic breed.
Just because it’s “not as bad” as what they do to Big Lick horses doesn’t make it right.
IMO, when you start referring to what’s on a horse’s foot as a “package,” there’s a problem.
[QUOTE=Proffie;9029686]
The barn I started riding at was an ASB barn, so I didn’t know any better. The more I learned, the more disgusted I became by how they were altering a naturally gorgeous, athletic breed.
Just because it’s “not as bad” as what they do to Big Lick horses doesn’t make it right.
IMO, when you start referring to what’s on a horse’s foot as a “package,” there’s a problem.[/QUOTE]
100%
Draftmare, those are examples of big shoeing in the ASB world. Those are being put out there as examples of ASB shoeing, but MY point is that they are the exception and not the rule.
Look up Mark of Charm, Central Perk, Kentucky Proud, WC A Rare Temper, The Daily Lottery, Real Action, Wild Carissima, With Style and Grace, Dr. Zhivago, CH Sprinkles, CH Jesse Cole, Paranormal…
This list of horses includes 3 gaited, 5 gaited, park and harness. These horses have a more modern hoof.
These horses are more representative of what is out there showing now. The two examples provided prior are the exception, not the rule, but THAT person has an agenda and is only going to show the worst examples.
[QUOTE=Amwrider;9031856]
These horses are more representative of what is out there showing now. The two examples provided prior are the exception, not the rule, but THAT person has an agenda and is only going to show the worst examples.[/QUOTE]
Well, everyone in entitled to an opinion. :lol: And, I didn’t show anything- I simply referred to two horses at the top, as you indicated that wasn’t happening. You know, these days.
Take a look at the foot on this years WGC gaited horse. A five gaited horse with more foot than I like to see, just to break level. However, you need to bear in mind that just because you do not see length of toe, or a ton of pads, does not mean that nothing is there. Just a single pad can hide lead weights. I have lost count of the number of horses I have seen who have lead in the heel, so that they will roll up in their movement, rather than show their natural length of stride and suspension. Yeah, they really do that.
Unlike the person who takes such great pride in castigating me, I see things as they are. I don’t make my living in the industry- and she does. I have bred and co-owned a Reserve World Champion ASB. She hasn’t gotten to the performance horse dance. Yeah, I get it. I’ve seen it, learned about it, and rejected this kind of treatment of a wonderful breed of horses. I still LOVE a great show horse. And the good ones DO go light. So should they all.
I’ve also been doing rescue damn near all of my life, and that means that the show horses that are shipped to sales? I see how they are shod, when the Amish pull their shoes, and put “road shoes” on them. I see the nightmares that exist under those pads and shoes.
There are a lot of nickle trainers who are simply trying to scrape up a living. And, they will tell you that the show horse world is all sunshine and flowers. I respect their need to make a living. I do not, however, respect anyone who supports this kind of shoeing on any horse. Period.
Thank you Amwrider…
As I said… a few Old Timers.
Also as far as the legislation, it turns out that Trump did not put a hold on this. He had nothing to do with it.
If you look on the Federal Register, it shows that APHIS pulled the rules prior to publication so they never even made it to the stage where Trump would put a hold on it.
I called APHIS and spoke to them. They pulled it for “further advisement.” I have a feeling they are going to wait. Once they publish “final” rules, they are locked into it. I think they are waiting to see how this administration is going to work before they submit anything final.
If a shoe needs a band to hold it on…it can’t be a good idea.
[QUOTE=CFFarm;9032270]
If a shoe needs a band to hold it on…it can’t be a good idea.[/QUOTE]
Guilerme’s Rule of Hippy Common Sense: If it feels good, do it. If it doesn’t feel good, don’t do it.
Concur with your though on bands.
G.
Insult me all you want, ASB Stars. You don’t know my background. Just because I am not a BNT doesn’t mean I don’t show at National or World levels. LOL. I actually have a very solid record of winners.
Did you train your RWC horse yourself or did someone else do the training for you? I can assure you the horses I have had that have been National or Reserve National Champions, or Top Ten at Worlds in both padded and non-padded and sporthorse divisions…were trained by me.
And I say it again, you have money to be made at stake also. You have been online for over a decade trying to get your agenda passed because you want to profit from selling ASBs to the sporthorse market and feel that you can’t do it because of the stigma of tail alterations and big shoes. It is in YOUR best interest to try to paint the bleakest and most horrible picture of the industry that you can, and you are trying to ride in on the coattails of the TWH legislation because you know that the average horseperson just doesn’t really make the distinction that ASBs and Morgans move and are shod differently.
I am in the industry, I go to seminars, clinics, conventions etc. I read the latest literature and the industry is not the same as it was when you were in in.
And if you go back and read, I don’t think I ever said the big shoes and long feet don’t happen these days
I said it is not the current trend and that you sometimes will see some of the “oldtimers” still doing it, especially with 3 gaited and Fine Harness horses that don’t have to trot as fast, but that the current trend is for a speedier and less labored looking trot and that is where you see the industry changing.
I would FULLY support more shoeing regulations with the ASBs such as what the Morgans have, but it is hard to determine maximum weights and toe lengths when the ASBs range from 14-17+ hands, and banning pads would not be a good thing.
If you ban pads, then people will grow hooves out longer which is not in the best interest of the horse as there won’t be ground contact/support for the frog. There will also be more concussive injuries from the horses with a lofty trot that slap the ground, and horses will not get the “down time” that they need between shows or in the off season because owners and trainers without being able to pad a shorter and more natural hoof, will be leaving those shoes on to keep the length.
[QUOTE=Amwrider;9032561]
Insult me all you want, ASB Stars. You don’t know my background. Just because I am not a BNT doesn’t mean I don’t show at National or World levels. LOL. I actually have a very solid record of winners.
Did you train your RWC horse yourself or did someone else do the training for you? I can assure you the horses I have had that have been National or Reserve National Champions, or Top Ten at Worlds in both padded and non-padded and sporthorse divisions…were trained by me.
And I say it again, you have money to be made at stake also. You have been online for over a decade trying to get your agenda passed because you want to profit from selling ASBs to the sporthorse market and feel that you can’t do it because of the stigma of tail alterations and big shoes. It is in YOUR best interest to try to paint the bleakest and most horrible picture of the industry that you can, and you are trying to ride in on the coattails of the TWH legislation because you know that the average horseperson just doesn’t really make the distinction that ASBs and Morgans move and are shod differently.
I am in the industry, I go to seminars, clinics, conventions etc. I read the latest literature and the industry is not the same as it was when you were in in.[/QUOTE]
And you do not know my back ground either, or what my actual agenda is. I do not make a dime in the horse business, and when I was selling sport horses, I was buying them off of the road, re-purposing them, and perhaps just breaking even- but that was some years back. The only horses on this farm now are rescues, and older horses.
And money? Nope. I bred that colt because I knew what bloodlines would work, because, you see, I’ve been at this long enough to have a deep understanding of bloodlines, training, horse shows, and what it takes to win at those shows. And what it takes is generally what turns my stomach. Why? Because I have been in it, and I have seen it.
As much as it may bother you, I have absolutely no agenda here but the welfare of a breed. These horses are seen for their shoes and tails. They are so much more- but the show world controls that image. When a horse has their tail cut, and then can’t make it in the show world, the Amish road has been their fate for decades. Without cut tails, we can better find great homes for wonderful horses. I am so sorry that you cannot seem to fathom that, and seek to support this abominable practice, even now.
And I think that it is wonderful that your horses qualify for the major shows. But helping to fill the class is a far cry from winning in the performance divisions.
The last horse that I competed in the ASB world was a mare who was born here, and who I broke, and trained, and showed myself. She was Reserve Champion Hunter Country Pleasure at Devon the only time she was ever shown. So, yeah, I can train and show my own. Thanks!
Please.
Your agenda has been clear for years. Anyone who has been around saddlebreds in the last 15-20 years knows of your campaign to turn them into sport horses. Your rants on Trot.org were legendary.
I don’t doubt you haven’t made a dime in the horse business; but it’s more due to failed business model than some sort of noble, self-sacrificing, charitable goal.
Personally, I wouldn’t brag about having an ASB hunter champion at Devon.I wouldn’t brag much about any ASB win at Devon - the show is a shadow of itself and the competition isn’t that deep.
I would brag about having an open hunter champion at Devon. That is an accomplishment.
OK is this correct?
I got a notice from change.org on a similar organization that one of the orders Trump signed allows the soring. Is this right?
[QUOTE=invinoveritas;9032775]
OK is this correct?
I got a notice from change.org on a similar organization that one of the orders Trump signed allows the soring. Is this right?[/QUOTE]
Please rephrase your question. I don’t understand what you’re asking.
G.
[QUOTE=invinoveritas;9032775]
OK is this correct?
I got a notice from change.org on a similar organization that one of the orders Trump signed allows the soring. Is this right?[/QUOTE]
change.org is left leaning political organization. At this point, in the current political climate, I wouldn’t believe anything that was sent in a random email about what the new president has or has not done.
But that’s just me.
[QUOTE=red mares;9032767]
Please.
Your agenda has been clear for years. Anyone who has been around saddlebreds in the last 15-20 years knows of your campaign to turn them into sport horses. Your rants on Trot.org were legendary.
I don’t doubt you haven’t made a dime in the horse business; but it’s more due to failed business model than some sort of noble, self-sacrificing, charitable goal.
Personally, I wouldn’t brag about having an ASB hunter champion at Devon.I wouldn’t brag much about any ASB win at Devon - the show is a shadow of itself and the competition isn’t that deep.
I would brag about having an open hunter champion at Devon. That is an accomplishment.[/QUOTE]
Well, it is GOOD to be known for something. Yes, I have campaigned for alternative disciplines for YEARS as an option for the 80% ASBs who are not going to be able to compete in todays show ring, where a vertical neckset trumps all.
And lengendary? Please. You’ll make me blush. :lol:
I didn’t make money pulling horses off of the road, but then, that wasn’t the point. The point was to place great prospects into sport horse homes, so that the horses had great lives, and the world had one more ASB to see in alternative disciplines. Sometimes, doing the right thing is expensive.
I showed at Devon to try and help to bring back the ASB to that show- absolutely! And it wasn’t about the ribbon- although that was a bonus. It was about showing the horses to that crowd.
I am sure that you know all about winning at the big shows, don’t you? Because, of course, you wouldn’t talk it if you didn’t walk it. Right? :lol:
[QUOTE=red mares;9032767]
I would brag about having an open hunter champion at Devon. That is an accomplishment.[/QUOTE]
I cannot help but add this; there are NO “OPEN” hunter classes at Devon. as in, NOT one. There are Working Hunters, Green Hunters (1st and 2nd year) Conformation Hunters, Local Hunters. OH! And Amateur Hunters, Junior Hunters…hunters in hand, and I may have missed some. But no, yes that’s right NO OPEN HUNTERS.:lol::lol::lol:
So, try for a clue when you insult someone. Because, yes, it matters. It shows that you, well, get it. :winkgrin:
You know, I can’t remember if there are still first year green horses there. No matter. They aren’t OPEN anyway.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
