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Enlighten me: what does the AKC do for dogs?

The Menagerie
#41

The TRUTH About the AKC!

The AKC doesn’t ‘crackdown’ on puppy mills, they are in bed with them! If the AKC didn’t have the income from litter registrations from commercial breeders, their income would be slashed (probably cut by 50%).

The AKC, working hand in hand with the puppy mill industry, spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to FIGHT anti-puppy mill legislation. They have a special team of attorneys and lobbyist’s who do nothing but keep track of proposed legislation in every state, then try to defeat it.

The AKC sends reps to all of the seminars for, and meetings of commercial breeders (puppy mills) to promote their registry.

The AKC takes out full page, full color ads in every months issue of all the Commercial Breeders magazines.

Years ago the AKC used to be FOR THE DOG, and they actually cared about the welfare of the purebred dog, now they are FOR THE $$$. All they care about now is numbers; how many dogs can they register and how much money can they make.

Have you looked at their income statement? The AKC is worth multi-millions.

IF (and that’s a big if) they cracked down on ANY puppy mills, maybe they made a show of closing a few of the most filthy, non-compliant ones. But the AKC doesn’t care if you have 700+ dogs and breed crap to crap, as long as you pass their cheesy kennel inspection and they get the income from your hundreds of puppy litter registrations.

#42

We need to study the European model of dog breeding, especially for the working breeds where health exams, x-rays and tests of temperament and basic working ability are required before the offspring of a sire/dam can be registered.

Plus, the requirements to earn a conformation championship are MUCH stricter overseas.

#43

[QUOTE=Pcostx;5863838]
We need to study the European model of dog breeding, especially for the working breeds where health exams, x-rays and tests of temperament and basic working ability are required before the offspring of a sire/dam can be registered.

Plus, the requirements to earn a conformation championship are MUCH stricter overseas.[/QUOTE]

Can’t compare, their dog industry in Europe is about 1/1000 of the volume it is in the USA alone.

That is like saying Walmart needs to go learn to do business from the corner grocery in some obscure rural town.

Those are completely different worlds, with their own needs and problems.

#44

And as we all know, anyone involved in a multi-million dollar business is sinister. It is evil to make a profit. :rolleyes:

There seems to be a public misconception that “purebred” = “quality”. The consumer has a responsibility to educate himself prior to purchase. If the AKC is making millions off of puppy mill puppies --which are, like it or not, purebred-- it is because people are continuing to purchase them.

I would love to see the AKC take an aggressive stance against puppy mills, rather than resort solely to rather passive programs which promote responsible breeding like award of merit status. Even the Jockey Club finally barred Paragallo from registering TBs.

That said, the BEST way to stop puppy mills? Don’t buy puppy mill puppies!!!

#45

[QUOTE=Pcostx;5863827]
The AKC doesn’t ‘crackdown’ on puppy mills, they are in bed with them! If the AKC didn’t have the income from litter registrations from commercial breeders, their income would be slashed (probably cut by 50%).

The AKC, working hand in hand with the puppy mill industry, spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to FIGHT anti-puppy mill legislation. They have a special team of attorneys and lobbyist’s who do nothing but keep track of proposed legislation in every state, then try to defeat it.

The reason many fight those laws, including the AKC, is because those are animal rights driven laws that will keep you eventually from having animals, not because the AKC is supporting puppy mills.

The AKC sends reps to all of the seminars for, and meetings of commercial breeders (puppy mills) to promote their registry.

The AKC takes out full page, full color ads in every months issue of all the Commercial Breeders magazines.

Years ago the AKC used to be FOR THE DOG, and they actually cared about the welfare of the purebred dog, now they are FOR THE $$$. All they care about now is numbers; how many dogs can they register and how much money can they make.

Have you looked at their income statement? The AKC is worth multi-millions.

IF (and that’s a big if) they cracked down on ANY puppy mills, maybe they made a show of closing a few of the most filthy, non-compliant ones. But the AKC doesn’t care if you have 700+ dogs and breed crap to crap, as long as you pass their cheesy kennel inspection and they get the income from your hundreds of puppy litter registrations.[/QUOTE]

There seem to be two kinds of people into dogs today, those that, like our AKC licensed performance dog club, that have worked all these 30+ years thru the AKC, given classes to the public and educated in schools, helped with rescues and shelters, etc. and those that have maybe also participated in the dog world thru other than the AKC.

Generally, those that have not been part of what the AKC provides, or had some fallout with some they do, like the original bc and jrt breeders, those hate, really hate anything about the AKC.

Sure, the AKC is a large organization and has done much and offers much, but perfect, they are not.
Are they in bed with puppy mills?
Suspicious minds like to see that, but really, the AKC has closed plenty of puppy mills when they could do so, until puppy mills banded and formed their own association.
That really is not the AKC’s fault.

The AKC is for dogs a bit like the AQHA is for horses, those that work thru them know what they are, those that choose not to easily fall into just seeing them as black and painting them in the worst light, when they really are just one more out there trying to do their best for who they are.

Remember when the ban slaughter bill was debated and the AQHA and 200 other of the larger horse industry groups were against it, “AS WRITTEN”, because it was setting a terrible precedent if the animal rights driven bill won a foothold in determining how we can use our horses?
The HSUS president gave a deposition to congress and got mad when he was not getting his way and almost left with practically threats to the congressmen there, it was that important for animal rights.

Well, the AKC is doing the same for dogs, trying to curb all those terrible animal rights driven laws, breed specific restrictive laws one example, that if they passed, would eventually mean the demise of dog ownership.
You can’t blame the AKC for that, they are a DOG organization.

What has their income statement to do with any of this anyway?
Being a large organization doesn’t automatically brand them as evil, I don’t think.:no:

#46

[QUOTE=Hannahsmom;5863424]
I had one of those JRTCA dogs. Loved her, she was great…not really different than my new AKC registered terrier breed. Yes, conformation is a beauty pagaent, but a lot of the ‘working breed dogs’ have terrible conformation. Neither is the dog’s best friends. AKC is about registrations and rules for events. It’s the breeders that ruin the breeds in my book.[/QUOTE]

I think one can argue that the conformation emphasis is what destroyed the hips of the GSDs in America. Someone decided those exaggeratedly sloped quarters were what looked good, and it started to win in the show ring. Now the domestic GSDs are a crippled mess. I’ve got friends who participate in Schutzhund and all of them imported their dogs from working stock in Europe. They’re all gorgeous dogs but they’d be laughed out of the ring at the breed shows - their croups are flat and their quarters sturdy.

You see it happen in the horse world when someone, or, more specifically a group of someones, goes all trendy on a particular look. It’s never good for the animal because it ALWAYS ends up exaggerated to the point where it’s not healthy for the animal to be put together that way.

I was all excited about the ILP initially, but from what some of you are saying here, my mixed-breed adoptees would be restricted from the really big competitions? Those are for purebreds only?

#47

I think that ILP dogs can participate in all performance events, obedience/rally, agility, coursing, etc.

You can’t show in conformation, because ILP demands spay/neuter for that ILP number and conformation is only for entire dogs that could be used for breeding.

There was talk of some conformation classes for neutered dogs, as offspring of breeding dogs, but I don’t know if that went anywhere or if ILPs would qualify if they do have them.

#48

Do I need to send you the puppy millers magazines so you can see for yourself the AKC ads wooing the millers?

The reason I mention the money aspect is simply to point out that the AKC’s income would drop sharply if they didn’t encourage (with advertising, incentives, educational seminars, etc) the commercial breeders to register their dogs w/ the AKC.

So now it’s considered “Animal Rights” to expect bitches to NOT be bred every heat cycle, to expect dogs to be seen by a licensed veterinarian once a year for a physical exam, vaccinations, etc, to NOT breed dogs on a large scale that have obvious genetic defects, to allow caged dogs a certain amount of space to move around in, to keep the living quarters of caged dogs clean and sanitary, to provide immediate vet care to a dog that is injured or sick, to keep long haired dogs clean and groomed so their hair doesn’t mat up and cause skin issues, to keep breeding animals protected from rain, sun and extremes of temperature? I could go on and on. Aren’t these things considered basic human treatment of an animal?

And can someone tell me how limiting the number of breeding age females to a NORMAL number, to less then 10+ (along w/ other provisions, that is just ONE item in an average anti-puppy mill bill), and enacting higher standards of care for dogs kept in cages has ANYTHING to do with the average persons right to own dogs?

Are you guys AKC reps or what? I can’t think of any other reason to be so pro AKC and have you head in the clouds about where their priorities are.

I’ve been involved in dogs on both sides of the coin (rescue and AKC showing) for over 35 years, my husband for over 42 years and we can both tell you that the AKC of old, before the puppy mills became their main source of income, was a MUCH better organization then it is today.

And why should the fact that dog breeding in Europe is done on a smaller scale prevent us from trying to IMPROVE our dog breeding here in the States? :confused:

Have you been to a dog show in Europe? They are MUCH larger then the vast majority of shows here in the states. How hard would it be to have simple tests of working ability and temperament included in conformation judging here in the USA? That what they do at Breed Specialty Shows! The scores for each dog would go on their registration record, much like Bonit points or Keuring results for horses.

If the Europeans can improve their horse breeding with inspections, testings, etc. (which you have to admit is a HUGE industry), why can’t we do the same with our dogs here?

#49

ILP is intended for dogs who are purebred, but not known to be registered (for example, I rescued an English setter who is clearly an English setter, but I obviously don’t have any registration or pedigree info on him as he was an unclaimed stray.)

Once you have ILP registration, I don’t see anything restricting you from big events.

[quote=Pcostx;5864007]Do I need to send you the puppy millers magazines so you can see for yourself the AKC ads wooing the millers?

[/quote]
Actually, yes…please do post or link specifically the material in which the AKC is promoting puppy mills. I’d genuinely like to see it.

#50

[QUOTE=Barnfairy;5864033]
ILP is intened for dogs who are purebred, but not known to be registered (for example, I rescued an English setter who is clearly an English setter, but I obviously don’t have any registration or pedigree info on him as he was an unclaimed stray.)

Once you have ILP registration, I don’t see anything restricting you from big events.

Actually, yes…please do post or link specifically the material in which the AKC is promoting puppy mills. I’d genuinely like to see it.[/QUOTE]

None of my border collies had AKC papers, one no papers at all and they all got AKC ILP numbers easily to show in obedience and later agility.

Still, being spayed, they would not have been elegible for conformation classes, of course, not that I would have had any interest in breeding anyway.

The AKC is not perfect, I don’t like the way the border collie AKC recognition went thru, but for the situation all found themselves in that, no one budging for their own reasons, it was to be expected.
The jrt, I only talked to some that were for their recognition, so can’t say how the other side felt or exactly what happened there.

So, the AKC does what it does for their own reasons, some times we question those, but to try to make it an evil dog empire, well, that is just not knowing all they do.

As for their legal work to stop animal rights supported bills, you have to read the fine print in those bills and the add-ons the AR groups get written into them to understand why anyone that wants to keep their rights to own dogs would be fighting them.

It is very easy for AR groups to call a bill an anti-puppy mill bill and get the clueless behind them and blame anyone opposing them for not wanting to stop puppy mill abuses.

The reality is when you become informed of the real bill wording and realize that yes, it curbs puppy mills, but it also will affect everyone else in a way that makes owning dogs hard to impossible.
AR groups are after eliminating ALL use of animals, any way they can and they have all the time in the world.

The AKC and other dog organizations are fighting for YOUR rights when they read and either are for or against those bills.
If you like the AKC or not, they are in our corner, if you are a dog owner.

#51

[QUOTE=Barnfairy;5864033]
ILP is intened for dogs who are purebred, but not known to be registered (for example, I rescued an English setter who is clearly an English setter, but I obviously don’t have any registration or pedigree info on him as he was an unclaimed stray.)

Once you have ILP registration, I don’t see anything restricting you from big events.

Actually, yes…please do post or link specifically the material in which the AKC is promoting puppy mills. I’d genuinely like to see it.[/QUOTE]

I’d kind of like to know what kind of magazines puppy millers put out. Yikes.

I get the AKC opposition to the puppy mill legislation. It’s so badly drafted in most cases and yeah, the radical animal rights cretins have to infect every bill with their extremist agendas. Until someone tells the rads to go take a long walk on a short pier, these bills aren’t going to be something responsible dog breeders can get behind. It sucks, because the losers are the dogs.

#52

Walmart is about volume not quality.

#53

Didn’t read all the posts, but the AKC delegate is helping our dog club with legislation drafting, etc. or more specifically changing legislation that has been drafted. Our state wants to require health certificates for dogs going anywhere (like a dog show, Petsmart, etc.)

It is just unrealistic and impossible to enforce fairly–i.e. a too-broad law that was intended for cattle going to sale and someone added “dogs” and was put on the books a long time ago but is suddenly being enforced in a random manner. Very bad for tourism or a state that relies heavily on hunting revenues.

#54

[QUOTE=Equibrit;5864104]
Walmart is about volume not quality.[/QUOTE]

Not only that, both Walmart and a corner store are about servicing the needs of their customers.

That is what I meant, there is more to any one than a glib comment on one facet of what they do, like how, why and which dogs the AKC registers, that is a part of a more complex whole of all they do.

#55

[quote=Pcostx;5864007]
Do I need to send you the puppy millers magazines so you can see for yourself the AKC ads wooing the millers? [quote]

Please do. I had no idea there were ‘puppy mill’ magazines and I would like to see those ads. I’m not meaning this in a nasty tone, I truly would like to see the ads so I can write the AKC about them.

#56

[QUOTE=Hannahsmom;5864181]

[quote=Pcostx;5864007]Do I need to send you the puppy millers magazines so you can see for yourself the AKC ads wooing the millers?

Please do. I had no idea there were ‘puppy mill’ magazines and I would like to see those ads. I’m not meaning this in a nasty tone, I truly would like to see the ads so I can write the AKC about them.

I have been in the dog world since 1973 and this is also the first I heard of that, but of course our little corner of the world only knows a bit, whatever affects us directly and it is more backyard breeding than puppy mills.

My guess is that some general distribution dog magazines were bought by someone like Hunt to help promote their CKC, Continental Kennel Club and that is where we may be.
My guesses are not always right.:wink:

#57

[QUOTE=Pcostx;5864007]
Have you been to a dog show in Europe? They are MUCH larger then the vast majority of shows here in the states. How hard would it be to have simple tests of working ability and temperament included in conformation judging here in the USA? That what they do at Breed Specialty Shows! The scores for each dog would go on their registration record, much like Bonit points or Keuring results for horses. [/QUOTE]

So European champions have to have a “working” (field/work/luring, etc.) component to become a champion?

I can honestly say I don’t know about Europe, but I do know that is not required in either Canada or Australia, as my dog’s parents are international champions in those countries as well as AKC.

#58

[QUOTE=Bluey;5864082]
As for their legal work to stop animal rights supported bills, you have to read the fine print in those bills and the add-ons the AR groups get written into them to understand why anyone that wants to keep their rights to own dogs would be fighting them.

It is very easy for AR groups to call a bill an anti-puppy mill bill and get the clueless behind them and blame anyone opposing them for not wanting to stop puppy mill abuses.

The reality is when you become informed of the real bill wording and realize that yes, it curbs puppy mills, but it also will affect everyone else in a way that makes owning dogs hard to impossible.
AR groups are after eliminating ALL use of animals, any way they can and they have all the time in the world.

The AKC and other dog organizations are fighting for YOUR rights when they read and either are for or against those bills.
If you like the AKC or not, they are in our corner, if you are a dog owner.[/QUOTE]

Bluey, I am a lawyer and I HAVE read the puppy mill legislation bills (at least the one in Texas, which AKC fought hard against claiming, like it has with all other such bills, that the bill would interfere with the average person’s right to own a dog). I did not see anything in it that was not DIRECTLY aimed at fighting puppy mills. In fact, as a breeder who also shows my dogs, I did not see anything in that bill that I could not live with or that I thought was a threat to general ownership rights.

Perhaps you (or someone else here) could point me directly to ANY such bill that has the sort of “add-ons” to which you refer.

#59

[QUOTE=Sonesta;5864555]
Bluey, I am a lawyer and I HAVE read the puppy mill legislation bills (at least the one in Texas, which AKC fought hard against claiming, like it has with all other such bills, that the bill would interfere with the average person’s right to own a dog). I did not see anything in it that was not DIRECTLY aimed at fighting puppy mills. In fact, as a breeder who also shows my dogs, I did not see anything in that bill that I could not live with or that I thought was a threat to general ownership rights.

Perhaps you (or someone else here) could point me directly to ANY such bill that has the sort of “add-ons” to which you refer.[/QUOTE]

The ones I remember the talk was about recently were bills in Mississipi or Missouri.

Don’t know which one in TX you are referring to, there were no warnings and cries of signing anything for those, that I am aware of.

As they explained it, some was in the MS? bill, some was being prepared to be added, that was going to make any breeding, puppy mill or not practically impossible eventually with the regulation extremes it was opening.

Why don’t you ask the AKC directly for clarification about their stance in those bills and your concerns?:yes:

#60

AKC tried to contract with Hunte Corp (puppy miller)

Do any of you recall the 2006 sneaky attempt the AKC leadership made to contract with PetLand (which sells puppies) and Hunte Corporation, one of the biggest puppy mills in the country, in an attempt to get more registration fees? http://www.doggedblog.com/doggedblog/2006/09/akc_update_3.html

Delegates and the membership were outraged, and made a big enough (appropriate) stink that the contract was rescinded. VERY interesting reading - worth googling.

That episode alone tells me that the leadership of the AKC does not have the best interests of dogs in mind. Most AKC member/breeders, however, do; these are the responsible breeders who campaign their dogs, test for known diseases/defects etc., and stop breeding a line if anything nasty crops up, including temperament. They are out to improve their breed. These are the same breeders who screen potential buyers and send their dogs out with spay/neuter contracts.

It’s too bad that in order to continue to be responsible breeders, they must align themselves with the AKC in order to campaign their dogs. Small ironies.

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