Equine ATTORNEYS! Seller refusing to release horse to shipper! UPDATE: Ransom refused

Just for those who continue to reference the GFM page, at this point I’ve contacted them and asked that they refund everything that’s been sent. I would much rather everything be returned than have anyone feel as though they’ve been misled in the wake of all the false info being spread around. One last time, I will point out that the GFM was only set up in response to those on the forum who asked for a page to contribute to.

Uninformed sour grapes do a masterful job of painting an unbecoming picture without having any firsthand knowledge or facts, and it’s a shame that peoples’ thirst for a public hanging ceremony trumps any aspect of remembering that.

[QUOTE=Kwill;8543473]
Whatever you want, whatever you need
Anything you want done, baby
I’ll do it naturally
'Cause I’m every pony (every pony)
It’s all in me, it’s all in me, yeah!

I’m every pony, it’s all in me
Anything you want done, baby, I’ll do it naturally

I’m every pony, it’s all in me
I can read your thoughts right now
Every one from A to Z, whoa whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa

I can cast a spell, of secrets you can tell
Mix a special brew, put fire inside of you
Anytime you feel danger or fear
Then instantly I will appear 'cause

I’m every pony, it’s all in me
Anything you want done, baby, I’ll do it naturally
Whoa whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa

I can sense your needs
Like rain unto the seeds
I can make a rhyme of confusion in your mind
And when it comes back to some good old-fashioned A circuit hunter jumper magic
I’ve got it, I’ve got it, I’ve got it, got it, baby, 'cause

I’m every pony, it’s all in me
Anything you want done, baby, I’ll do it naturally

I’m every pony, it’s all in me
I can read your thoughts right now
Every one from A to Z, whoa whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa

I ain’t braggin’ 'cause I am the one
You just ask me, ooh, it shall be done
And don’t bother to compare, I’ve got it
Whoa whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa
Whoa whoa whoa [that’s actually the rider there]

And all for a measley $2200! (lawyers fees may apply)[/QUOTE]

I can’t decide if I love you or hate you.

Thanks for the earworm. I guess.

FYI readers, since this has not been brought up to date on this thread … The “GoFundMe”, created about 4 days ago on Feb. 19th, has had 4 donations for a total of $150, out of a goal of $6,000, assuming I am seeing the latest information. Last donation was the day after it opened. (No link to it in this post, just the update info. :slight_smile: )

Not an attorney, this is just imo …

Seller

  • Seller’s remorse can be as real as buyer’s remorse, and the reasons for it don’t really matter. I do understand that especially given too much time to dwell on the sale before what was sold was finally gone from their sight. But like buyer’s remorse, it is too late, unless you NEGOTIATE an agreement with the buyer to void the contract. Some decisions are harder to undo than they were to do.

  • You have not disagreed with the Buyer’s basic chain of events, aside from all the feelings and opinions. The time to vet your buyer is BEFORE the sale. No matter what your opinion of the buyer is now, why wasn’t all that just as important before you signed the contract and accepted the sale? This is accountability on your part.

  • Time to let the pony go OR NEGOTIATE your way out. You listed the pony for sale, you were inviting just such a discussion from anyone who expressed an interest. You signed, took money and sold. It’s done.

  • Being ‘talked into it’ doesn’t work as an excuse for voiding the sale. I think it’s going to be hard to prove you were told lies - sounds to me like different perspectives on the same set of circumstances. You don’t really want to leave it up to the court to figure out.

  • If you really did send the buyer taunting messages about voiding the sale, if the law officer really did consider you to be intoxicated when the pony was to be picked up, you are not behaving in a way that puts the pony first. Those facts will stay with this drama as it goes forward - if it goes forward.

  • Anticipate the impact of your behavior & decisions before you act! That’s the only way forward for you, whatever outcome you pursue.

Buyer

  • I supported you on the initial presentation of the facts, and even the seller has not contradicted those. BUT – IMO, you are making two gigantic mistakes that are so very much not worth the potential negative consequences.
    a) Believing you know what a judge will do in a court case, rightly or wrongly. It could be incredibly costly to you - rightly OR wrongly! Stay out of court as much as possible in your life for that reason.
    b) Taking it to Social Media. This is potentially a bigger mistake than #1. #1 may have been justified. #2 - what on earth where you thinking? You could make the decision on #1 without a convention-hall crowd of strangers chipping in.

You do realize that several thousand people read this thread now, more in the future? People you know, people who know of you, and others of course. The vast majority do NOT post, so count the individual posters and multiply by a factor of 5, maybe 10.

Re SM - If you could just talk to the most knowledgeable and sanest of the social media participants, on or off COTH, yes, they can help anyone immensely.

But you KNOW that PUBLIC threads like this get broad exposure and attract all kinds of funsters and negative nellies. These issues in public take on a life of their own that the originator cannot control. And they almost inevitably turn on the OP, if they go on long enough. All names are outed, reputations can potentially be damaged. And you have no power to remove whatever happens from public view.

You might have been ok to carry on with the court case … but understand that if you do so NOW, assume that everything will be picked over and criticized online, whether you contribute or not. SM has the power to turn right into wrong and vice versa - to a broad public, including everyone who passes this on even further through barn gossip.

Buyer, imo you should re-consider your position as of right now, post-social-media-storm - which will get only worse so long as more episodes are fed into it - and potential reputation impact. Rightly or wrongly.

Right now - What is your common sense move in your own long-term best interests?

Right now - What is the best outcome for you if you pursue the court case? Does it outweigh the potential downside? Both monetarily and in terms of chaff on social media? Keeping in mind that you will be on the seller’s turf.

In your shoes, if I could still get the refund and walk away from this, I would do it in the next hour, post that information in this thread with no other comment, and ask the mods to close this thread. In your career shoes I would recognize that, as someone who works with the public, social media may be the biggest issue. Not the pony, not the court case, not even the money.

You have no control over what you set in motion re social media. Best to turn it off now - just imo. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=ssslll;8540857]
If anyone would like to know why I have voided the sale of my sweet pony from this lady. Feel free to email me. I will send you all of my screen shots of reasons why I would never let my pony go to Kris Jenings and her Mother Donna Bolk who she says is her so called client. Infact just Google her name and you can see for yourself why. My email address is sarahlynnhall93@gmail.com[/QUOTE]

I searched. Saw some random chaff. I didn’t find anything unfavorable about any of the names that have been referenced to the Buyers in this thread. You, seller, I haven’t yet searched.

Maybe I didn’t find what is out there. To bolster your social media case, you need to provide the links. Otherwise you may not be helping yourself that much by engaging in the social media end. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Kwill;8541549][B]I said all along to let it go – and at this point, no one seems to be lily white in this drama, but that’s typical of life, it’s messy.

Seller, I think you have to give them the pony if they don’t accept the refund, you signed the contract. The legal mess is probably not worth it. Next time, vet your buyers. Who sells a beloved horse to a sight unseen buyer 3 states away that doesn’t even come to try?[/B]

[B]Buyer, ethically you should let this go. Seller doesn’t want you to have the pony and you could respect that and take your money back and move on. Whether or not she’s right about holding on to the pony, you could be a nice person and let her keep it, take your money back, and find another pony. However, in point of fact, you are in the right here since a contract was signed and the money was paid.

Sad story about a transaction gone bad. Sellers, you have the ability to control a sale, slow it down if you are unsure. Same with buyers.[/B][/QUOTE]

*** exactly - well said! ***

I don’t expect human beings to be ‘lily-white’ in a drama becoming more complex all the time. But, both sides need to own up to their mistakes to themselves, if not in public. Both sides need to put the emotion and power struggle aside. Each should take the common sense course that is in their own best interests. Assuming the pony has a good home either way.

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8540898]Doing a wine run.
Anybody need anything from the store?
Beer, popcorn?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:[/QUOTE]

Large economy size margarita mix, please. Here’s some money, get something for yourself, too. :winkgrin:

[QUOTE=Altered39;8543508]
Just for those who continue to reference the GFM page, at this point I’ve contacted them and asked that they refund everything that’s been sent. I would much rather everything be returned than have anyone feel as though they’ve been misled in the wake of all the false info being spread around. One last time, I will point out that the GFM was only set up in response to those on the forum who asked for a page to contribute to.

Uninformed sour grapes do a masterful job of painting an unbecoming picture without having any firsthand knowledge or facts, and it’s a shame that peoples’ thirst for a public hanging ceremony trumps any aspect of remembering that.[/QUOTE]

OP, well I guess you can add this to the long list of situations (judging by your facebook page) where you feel you are the victim of false claims and gossip. You seem to enjoy the attention and drama (here’s one from your page), so I guess just keep on what you’re doing. If you’re not enjoying it, then make different choices. Simple as that.

[QUOTE=Altered39;8543508]
Just for those who continue to reference the GFM page, at this point I’ve contacted them and asked that they refund everything that’s been sent. I would much rather everything be returned than have anyone feel as though they’ve been misled in the wake of all the false info being spread around. One last time, I will point out that the GFM was only set up in response to those on the forum who asked for a page to contribute to.

Uninformed sour grapes do a masterful job of painting an unbecoming picture without having any firsthand knowledge or facts, and it’s a shame that peoples’ thirst for a public hanging ceremony trumps any aspect of remembering that.[/QUOTE]

What is written on the CotH forum, stays on the CotH forum.

Forever.

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8543477]
It is far more common for disputes to settle before a judge weighs in. And that is one way we attorneys can help our clients save some money, by negotiating settlement. In fact, most clients don’t want to pursue litigation all the way to judgment because that is expensive. So, in the end, it may not even matter who is “right” here but whether or not a resolution can be reached that both sides can live with. Which brings us back to the early pages of this thread where some people suggested maybe buyer should just take their money back and let it go.[/QUOTE]

Christ on a cracker, seems there are plenty of attorneys on these fine pages!! Who knew??

Anywho, about the quote above, settling is OUR (meaning us country folk) way instead of dragging lawyers and judges into it. To my mind, going by what is written, seller got cold feet for whatever, doesn’t matter now, tried to back out of a done deal. BUT now most of us know, you can muddy the waters and get everyone going multiple ways because no one ever comes up with all info from the get-go.

I don’t care who buyer is, she bought the pony and pony has been held with an offer of returned money. It is waaayyy too much trouble to go through all of this for this pony.

In my book, take the money, have all internet and paper trails and then blast it around, it will be forgotten in the publics view after a week or so. The buyer and seller will still be mad at each other, such is life.

As for the duplicitous getting a horse for less because a deserving person needs it, it may be illegal or bordering on, but if it were THAT bad of a problem, half the horse sales in this country would be shut down. Unless you get a signed, sealed and iron clad contract of some sort, the horse is the buyers to do with as they will. There is probably some law about how to write the contract but do you think most people adhere to that? Nope.

I had a lady NEED a saddle horse, I sold her the horse at a reduced price, only to see horse on the local ads for three times the price. Let me tell you, I made her uncomfortable every time I saw her, to the point when she was turning into the library parking lot and saw me getting out of my pickup, she left quickly. That was my revenge.

This whole thing is so cocked-up and made much harder than it had to be. In my country gal real life opinion.

For all of you getting bent out of shape about the GoFundMe page, that’s getting low. OP is not the one who brought it up, a COH poster did, then OP said she thought maybe it wasn’t right, got encouragement & set it up, then had some criticism to which she replied that was making her re-think it.

It first came up somewhere around post # 140.

At least 3 posters on this thread supported her and specifically said they would donate to it. So unless you want to go ahead and bash the posters who at first out of their good faith encouraged the GFM idea, I don’t think it’s fair to blast the OP for that, esp. now that she says she’s refunding the money.

[QUOTE=Sparrowette;8540306]
meupatdoes
Just FYI, your tiny url links in your handle mostly go to a penis enlargement site.
.[/QUOTE]

But does it have a head tilt?

Yea … it was a little crooked. Damn it I paid for it already and now want my money back.

Can’t go canoeing sideways!

[QUOTE=Nootka;8543591]
Yea … it was a little crooked. Damn it I paid for it already and now want my money back.

Can’t go canoeing sideways![/QUOTE]

I thought that was what “getting a little on the side” meant…

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8542939]

I’ve been telling OP she is doing her client a disservice to pursue this in court since the start. Not all attorneys LOVE to throw other people’s money away suing people. If this kid is that poor her pony budget is going to some lawyer now. And she may or may not get the pony. That lawyer will still get paid though.[/QUOTE]

The Buyer(s) were never going to pay all this themselves. The strategy was always to use the ‘free’ gofundme money. Based on what was posted when that all came up … so far back in this thread, I have no idea where. :slight_smile:

Although it is true that posters other than the OP suggested it rather broadly, at that time there was a more unified pov being expressed. That seems to be a typical pattern in these threads. It is usually for forerunner to the downturn …

Oh, I don’t know. The first horse I ever owned and sold ended up going from my pasture board situation to a lifetime home with a 14x14 stall he visited for meals, in between being hand-walked to and from extensive time in comfortable, tree-shaded, grassy paddocks. All this for a little bit of work carting around a junior who had no power to argue with him. Good for him! :winkgrin:

I had to figure he understood the deal, watching their rounds. He gifted her with many ribbons and a few champs, and she never understood why she had so much trouble riding any other horse. :lol:

disadvantaged child

What’s the legal definition of a ‘disadvantaged child’?

The Buyer has been very clear that it is a child who could not afford the price of a more expensive pony. I don’t know what the Seller thinks would qualify.

A lot of us readers are getting rather stuck on the price discount definition, knowing the purchase price is NOT the big horse expense. It’s upkeep, maintenance & repair, costs which escalate magnificently for ‘A’ competitors. Costs that are not different based on purchase price.

I’d think Seller would know that as well if Seller was at all aware of the ‘A’ show circuit.

Hey, I think I might be ‘disadvantaged’, too … :winkgrin:

[QUOTE=Kwill;8542042]“Horse Sales Gone Wrong” – I think we could get at least one season of a TV show out of it.

This week – “I googled after the sale, and you are out!”[/QUOTE]

Throw in boarding dramas and the series could go on for years! Without becoming repetitious! :lol:

This thread is Breaking Bad. Better Call Saul. He’s the only lawyer who could represent both sides simultaneously.

[QUOTE=js;8541542]
Why get financially disadvantaged kids and parents into a sport they can’t possibly afford? How does that really help anyone.[/QUOTE]

One can get a lot of free labor and horse care out of the grateful … esp. those who turn out to be skilled riders and good with prop.

When one party is represented already (has a lawyer), it is generally in the best interest of the other party to hire a lawyer for negotiations. That’s because when you have a lawyer pushing a settlement at you, you should probably have your own lawyer there to read it and make recommendations. Lawyers also help act like a filter in keeping you from saying something you shouldn’t to the other side’s attorney. That doesn’t mean that the two parties can’t try to also work things out among themselves. In this case, if the parties could have just worked it out in a businesslike manner, we wouldn’t have this thread.

[QUOTE=Synthesis;8543630]
One can get a lot of free labor and horse care out of the grateful … esp. those who turn out to be skilled riders and good with prop.[/QUOTE]

That would be true if there actually was a child. The OP is the child. Far too late in this case.

Catch up:

The Buyer has been very clear that it is a child who could not afford the price of a more expensive pony. I don’t know what the Seller thinks would qualify.

No child, it’s the OP. Who freely admitted around page one she was “a young trainer”. Probably not as much of a child as you are thinking, though. And not as disadvantaged, either.

Jinx! posting as I posted.

Yes, but js’ comment was about disadvantaged children: why get them into this sport? I thought that was kind of cruel. There are plenty of kids with no money who are hard workers and have been helped tremendously by kind people who provided them the opportunities to learn about horses and to ride and yes, even to show. We know it turned out not to be this particular case, but to say ugh, why let poor kids in is just mean.

[QUOTE=Altered39;8543508]
Just for those who continue to reference the GFM page, at this point I’ve contacted them and asked that they refund everything that’s been sent. I would much rather everything be returned than have anyone feel as though they’ve been misled in the wake of all the false info being spread around. One last time, I will point out that the GFM was only set up in response to those on the forum who asked for a page to contribute to.

Uninformed sour grapes do a masterful job of painting an unbecoming picture without having any firsthand knowledge or facts, and it’s a shame that peoples’ thirst for a public hanging ceremony trumps any aspect of remembering that.[/QUOTE]

Does this mean this is out of the question??

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?328737-COTH-identifier

Were these actually made? ^^^^^ ( I can’t see them from my work computer :frowning: ) I would put one on my car though if they look cool … lol :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Anne FS;8543669]
Yes, but js’ comment was about disadvantaged children: why get them into this sport? I thought that was kind of cruel. There are plenty of kids with no money who are hard workers and have been helped tremendously by kind people who provided them the opportunities to learn about horses and to ride and yes, even to show. We know it turned out not to be this particular case, but to say ugh, why let poor kids in is just mean.[/QUOTE]

Call it mean but I don’t like to see kids hearts broken when reality settles in that they cannot afford a sport that someone has gotten them excited and interested in. Neither is it fair to ask of the parents because you are putting them between their child’s dreams and mortgage payments, savings, saving for college, other siblings with ambitions etc.

Yes, kids can work for lessons, rides etc. but trying to show upper level hunter/jumpers (as the OP was saying this so called child was attempting) that is very expensive and few can afford to go to that level without a lot of money to invest at some point.

That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t suggest another equestrian discipline that might be a more financially viable option, like pony club, 4-H etc.