Eventing's Biggest Enemy?

[RC.Eventer]

First time poster, long time rider/reader. The first thing I would like to say is that what you will read below is my opinion. It is based on 20+ years of experience grooming, riding, training, and competing event and dressage horses. I am a working professional. I live in a big city, have a PhD and two Master’s, and work two very demanding corporate jobs to support my horses.

I have three horses, 11 full time horse clients but more importantly, I have worked hard since I was 12 to be able to have horses in my life–not because I wanted glory, winning horses, or my name in lights, but because I LOVE these animals more than life. No, I have not ridden around Rolex. Am I any less qualified to have a say in my sport because of that? NO.

To the individual who remounted after being eliminated and then proceeded to take her horse to the warm up ring for a training session after the fact. You should know better but more importantly, you should be better than that-- for the sake of your horses who try so hard for you. Regardless of the rules, this is a bad display of horse management, a poor representation of our sport, and unfair to your horses. 10 jumps in five minutes to prove a point is poor horse training and by the sounds of your post, you know this. So stop with the excuses. Own your behavior and change it.

To the people that think this forum does more harm that good, perhaps that is true. However I would remind you that the purpose of this forum is for people to be able to express their opinion’s freely. “Freely” does not mean without criticism. We all understand that maybe our position on such topics won’t be popular. You would be remiss in thinking that because we also choose to express our opinions on this forum that we do not, or have not, done our part to speak out to the eventing community at large.

On that note, recently I witnessed a terrible display of horse management at an FEI event from a rider (Missy Miller) who is promoting herself as an upper level rider/trainer/coach but more importantly as an ambassador of this sport. She had two infractions that weekend (both for abuse of horse involving two different horses) She was given two yellow cards and a suspension (for receiving two cards within 12 months) until January 1. This is the fourth time she has been on the FEI warning/yellow card list this year alone. There was an article written about the incident that was published online in the COtH. I sent a letter and several witness accounts to a few popular eventing publications (including EN). I was very sad to only see one article covering the incident and disappointed (but not surprised that EN mentioned nothing of it in any of their coverage of the Event). However, I have discussed the incident with several other URLs and was pleased to hear that they had also taken action and had agreed to keep an eye on her in the future for the well being of her horses. We are a community, and together we can make a difference.

Lastly, remember to be kind to one another and respect each other’s opinions. We all have something to say and how very lucky are we that we have a safe place to express our opinions.

Warm Regards to all my fellow Forum contributors ,
-RC

[pony_grandma]

Originally Posted by KayBee
I fell off in stadium at a recognized show (refusal), asked if I could take my horse into the stadium warmup to take a few jumps, and was told “yes.”

[QUOTE=Littleluck55;8947383]
My daughter’s trainer was eliminated in stadium and was allowed to go cross country the next day with everyone else. And another girl who rides with us was eliminated in dressage but allowed to continue the other two phases. The scores still stood as eliminations but it allowed them to get experience for their horses. And this was 2 different events at 2 different venues.[/QUOTE]

Huge difference in a rider fall as elimination reason, you must have missed that. Many show managements and officials will allow a rider to continue on to the other phase if the elimination warrants the safety. Say your horse stepped outside the dressage arena, not a huge safety issue to continue on HC.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=Marigold;8947261]
To be fair, I’ve taken exactly three lessons on a four star horse, but it was some of the best education I’ve ever received. Not because it was “easy” but because when I was right, he was RIGHT. That horse was an instructor all on his own, and he showed me how it was supposed to feel. Which, in turn, makes it possible for me to look for that in the greener horses I’m schooling.

Realize that I’ve never shown a horse that I hadn’t taken to it’s first event, so I’m far from someone who lives this life. And certainly there are significant drawbacks to always riding the made horse. But just like someone learns from riding with a coach who knows what’s correct, so too can someone learn from riding a horse that knows what’s correct. It’s not exclusively done for the purposes of “moving up without working at it”.[/QUOTE]
What you describe is somewhat different than what I am talking about. I had a chance to take a lesson on an Advanced level horse and yes, he taught me a ton in that session. I then went back to my older mare and carried on. From what I can tell you have lots of experience, train green horses and not the subject of my comment.

I am remarking on mainly younger kids, though some adults do this as well, with enough capital to have mom and dad (or SO) buy that mid 5 figure horse trained at least two levels above. This typically happens after Dobbin stops or dumps said rider. There is the impatience of wanting to move up (see bewolfs post on that topic), but not wanting to put in the time to work through issues. At some point it catches up, because you eventually cannot circumvent skill.

I bought Sterling in 2010 (winter) and thought “Man, we are going Novice by end of next year”. Instead, we had to strip down to bare basics and work hard to learn each other and what it took to jump properly. The end result is loving the bond and trust I have with him more then the need to “move up” or win. I’m not a fan of the quick fix for gain.

[kcmel]

[QUOTE=RC.Eventer;8947495]
First time poster, long time rider/reader. The first thing I would like to say is that what you will read below is my opinion. It is based on 20+ years of experience grooming, riding, training, and competing event and dressage horses. I am a working professional. I live in a big city, have a PhD and two Master’s, and work two very demanding corporate jobs to support my horses.

I have three horses, 11 full time horse clients but more importantly, I have worked hard since I was 12 to be able to have horses in my life–not because I wanted glory, winning horses, or my name in lights, but because I LOVE these animals more than life. No, I have not ridden around Rolex. Am I any less qualified to have a say in my sport because of that? NO.

To the individual who remounted after being eliminated and then proceeded to take her horse to the warm up ring for a training session after the fact. You should know better but more importantly, you should be better than that-- for the sake of your horses who try so hard for you. Regardless of the rules, this is a bad display of horse management, a poor representation of our sport, and unfair to your horses. 10 jumps in five minutes to prove a point is poor horse training and by the sounds of your post, you know this. So stop with the excuses. Own your behavior and change it.

To the people that think this forum does more harm that good, perhaps that is true. However I would remind you that the purpose of this forum is for people to be able to express their opinion’s freely. “Freely” does not mean without criticism. We all understand that maybe our position on such topics won’t be popular. You would be remiss in thinking that because we also choose to express our opinions on this forum that we do not, or have not, done our part to speak out to the eventing community at large.

On that note, recently I witnessed a terrible display of horse management at an FEI event from a rider (Missy Miller) who is promoting herself as an upper level rider/trainer/coach but more importantly as an ambassador of this sport. She had two infractions that weekend (both for abuse of horse involving two different horses) She was given two yellow cards and a suspension (for receiving two cards within 12 months) until January 1. This is the fourth time she has been on the FEI warning/yellow card list this year alone. There was an article written about the incident that was published online in the COtH. I sent a letter and several witness accounts to a few popular eventing publications (including EN). I was very sad to only see one article covering the incident and disappointed (but not surprised that EN mentioned nothing of it in any of their coverage of the Event). However, I have discussed the incident with several other URLs and was pleased to hear that they had also taken action and had agreed to keep an eye on her in the future for the well being of her horses. We are a community, and together we can make a difference.

Lastly, remember to be kind to one another and respect each other’s opinions. We all have something to say and how very lucky are we that we have a safe place to express our opinions.

Warm Regards to all my fellow Forum contributors ,
-RC[/QUOTE]

Welcome; great first post! I hope you continue to stay active on this forum.

[JER]

I’d never heard of Missy ‘Yellow Card’ Miller before.

Two yellow cards and two verbal warnings between May and October of this year? That’s four warnings in five months.

I noticed that one warning (at GMHA) was for ‘irresponsible riding’. Anyone know what that was for? I’m curious as to what that designation is applied.

Then I looked at her Instagram feed and her most recent post is a brag stating that this horse went from his ‘first BN to prelim in 8 months’. FWIW, the horse ran in 15 rec horse trials in < 10 months.

She also notes that she ‘can’t wait for 2017!’ Which is when her suspension ends. So no doubt she’s looking forward to it.

I hope she’s learned a lesson or two along the way. She seems to be at that especially vulnerable stage where things can go very, very wrong if she doesn’t correct her course.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=JER;8947919]
I’d never heard of Missy ‘Yellow Card’ Miller before.

Two yellow cards and two verbal warnings between May and October of this year? That’s four warnings in five months.

I noticed that one warning (at GMHA) was for ‘irresponsible riding’. Anyone know what that was for? I’m curious as to what that designation is applied.

Then I looked at her Instagram feed and her most recent post is a brag stating that this horse went from his ‘first BN to prelim in 8 months’. FWIW, the horse ran in 15 rec horse trials in < 10 months.

She also notes that she ‘can’t wait for 2017!’ Which is when her suspension ends. So no doubt she’s looking forward to it.

I hope she’s learned a lesson or two along the way. She seems to be at that especially vulnerable stage where things can go very, very wrong if she doesn’t correct her course.[/QUOTE]
If that is a current post after all the cards and warnings…I doubt it. Life, Karma, whatever will bite her in the ass (maybe a horse too), I just hope she survives.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=JER;8947919]
I’d never heard of Missy ‘Yellow Card’ Miller before.

Two yellow cards and two verbal warnings between May and October of this year? That’s four warnings in five months.

I noticed that one warning (at GMHA) was for ‘irresponsible riding’. Anyone know what that was for? I’m curious as to what that designation is applied.

Then I looked at her Instagram feed and her most recent post is a brag stating that this horse went from his ‘first BN to prelim in 8 months’. FWIW, the horse ran in 15 rec horse trials in < 10 months.

She also notes that she ‘can’t wait for 2017!’ Which is when her suspension ends. So no doubt she’s looking forward to it.

I hope she’s learned a lesson or two along the way. She seems to be at that especially vulnerable stage where things can go very, very wrong if she doesn’t correct her course.[/QUOTE]

This rider was also publicly supporting ML on Facebook after the blood incident… :mad:

[FrittSkritt]

[QUOTE=JER;8947919]
I’d never heard of Missy ‘Yellow Card’ Miller before.

Two yellow cards and two verbal warnings between May and October of this year? That’s four warnings in five months.

I noticed that one warning (at GMHA) was for ‘irresponsible riding’. Anyone know what that was for? I’m curious as to what that designation is applied.

Then I looked at her Instagram feed and her most recent post is a brag stating that this horse went from his ‘first BN to prelim in 8 months’. FWIW, the horse ran in 15 rec horse trials in < 10 months.

She also notes that she ‘can’t wait for 2017!’ Which is when her suspension ends. So no doubt she’s looking forward to it.

I hope she’s learned a lesson or two along the way. She seems to be at that especially vulnerable stage where things can go very, very wrong if she doesn’t correct her course.[/QUOTE]

Apparently she was a long time WS or groom for Darren Chiacchia and also spent some time in Europe working for a couple big names (WFP, Dirk Schrade)… methinks the former has had more influence on her horsemanship than the latter.

[JER]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8948244]
This rider was also publicly supporting ML on Facebook after the blood incident… :mad:[/QUOTE]

I’m surprised she has time to do that.

I mean, she ran that bay horse 15 times in 9.5 months. And she ran this horse 19 times during the same period.

Too bad her suspension comes at the end of the year when there are no more comps.

And I don’t want to hear any defense along the lines of ‘but she knows her horses, blahblahblah.’ I know horses too. A quality horse with a carefully managed career can go from its first BN or N (we don’t always do BN) to Advanced in about 20 comps total. This is starting recognized comp at age 6 (which is what I do) and being ready for Advanced at the start of their 9 year-old year.

Yes, I know that some horses need more runs than others. But the only thing that keeps horses on a comp schedule like this is the rider’s ego.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=JER;8948272]
I’m surprised she has time to do that.

I mean, she ran that bay horse 15 times in 9.5 months. And she ran this horse 19 times during the same period.

Too bad her suspension comes at the end of the year when there are no more comps.

And I don’t want to hear any defense along the lines of ‘but she knows her horses, blahblahblah.’ I know horses too. A quality horse with a carefully managed career can go from its first BN or N (we don’t always do BN) to Advanced in about 20 comps total. This is starting recognized comp at age 6 (which is what I do) and being ready for Advanced at the start of their 9 year-old year.

Yes, I know that some horses need more runs than others. But the only thing that keeps horses on a comp schedule like this is the rider’s ego.[/QUOTE]

ok…whoaaaaaa that horse went Prelim back to back weekends almost 8 times had no finishes in the top 10 during that time and had a few Rs and a RF. THIS is exactly the type of thing JHs article is talking about. Where is the horsemanship? The planning? No wonder horses are breaking down so much…

[JER]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8948285]
ok…whoaaaaaa that horse went Prelim back to back weekends almost 8 times had no finishes in the top 10 during that time and had a few Rs and a RF. [/QUOTE]

This is also the horse that she’s smacking upside the head.

:eek:

BTW, she rides in a top hat. Clearly, she’s invincible.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=JER;8948291]
This is also the horse that she’s smacking upside the head.

:eek:

BTW, she rides in a top hat. Clearly, she’s invincible.[/QUOTE]

Must have smacked some sense into it because it looks like it started winning after a while…
and there we get the reward for the bad behavior.

I know this isn’t a joke but really…I can’t even handle this type of thing.

Can we not limit horses to maybe 2 horse trials a month or something???

[SnicklefritzG]

If Missy Miller is getting yellow cards and a suspension why is Marilyn Little not even getting a yellow card for multiple issues with blood?

[FrittSkritt]

[QUOTE=JER;8948291]
This is also the horse that she’s smacking upside the head.

:eek:

BTW, she rides in a top hat. Clearly, she’s invincible.[/QUOTE]

It’s too bad, looking through her photos she has a tight leg and great jumping position… physically she appears capable, but mentally maybe not-so-much.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=FrittSkritt;8948310]
It’s too bad, looking through her photos she has a tight leg and great jumping position… physically she appears capable, but mentally maybe not-so-much.[/QUOTE]

There’s a lot of pics of falls and near misses too…should it be that common…

[babecakes]

[QUOTE=JER;8948272]

she ran that bay horse 15 times in 9.5 months. And she ran this horse 19 times during the same period. [/QUOTE]:eek: :no: (Gawd I’m also doing the $$$ math!)

@JER;8948272

Too bad her suspension comes at the end of the year when there are no more comps.

This is not acceptable, needs to be changed.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8948285]
ok…whoaaaaaa that horse went Prelim back to back weekends almost 8 times had no finishes in the top 10 during that time and had a few Rs and a RF. THIS is exactly the type of thing JHs article is talking about. Where is the horsemanship? The planning? No wonder horses are breaking down so much…[/QUOTE]
This goes on the WTF are we doing pile as well.

Imagine when she moves that horse on to the next rider. Hoping it is a truly good horseman/woman for it may take time to undo the harm this rider created.

I’m starting to get an idea of why some horses are priced so high, in less than a year she spend @ 4500 on one horse for show fees, 5700 for the other and that is not factoring in extraneous costs. That is in one year.

Compare that to JER’s 20 in three years, @ 6000 and I’m guessing that horse has a much better foundation, brain, and body.

It is interesting, I got chided a while back for pointing this very issue out in regards to (as I remember) as well known horse. Seems I didn’t know nothing about how to train a horse. You see, horses are different and well, the rider knows the horse…right JER?

Jel, if you tried to regulate horse participation, the howls that would come from professionals, trainers, owners would be mighty, yet telling. If we were generous and said 6-7 Events, that certainly is enough time to allow rest and training to advance the horse along, but you’d be eating into the potential profits of people attempting to make money off of horses. I mean, welfare of the horse and all is nice, but dammit, they need to make money.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=JP60;8948329]

Jel, if you tried to regulate horse participation, the howls that would come from professionals, trainers, owners would be mighty, yet telling. If we were generous and said 6-7 Events, that certainly is enough time to allow rest and training to advance the horse along, but you’d be eating into the potential profits of people attempting to make money off of horses. I mean, welfare of the horse and all is nice, but dammit, they need to make money.[/QUOTE]

Pushes my belief for the FEI to take the pros and for the ammies to start their own league.

I am disgusted. I am also curious how anyone can afford that…I would assume it must be owners paying the bills? Otherwise eventer pros are making wayyyy more than they act like they are…because that is a huge chunk of change to run two event horses. What do the owners think?

I feel guilty doing Pre Entrys (starter) back to back LOL can’t even imagine how these horses will stay sound.

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8948338]

I feel guilty doing Pre Entrys (starter) back to back LOL can’t even imagine how these horses will stay sound.[/QUOTE]

They don’t, the ones that run often, you don’t see their names for multiple years in a row. The ones that are cared for and are patient with, last.

[JER]

Really, I don’t want this to turn into a Missy Miller witch hunt. I don’t know her. I’ve never seen her ride. But…

I have seen other Missy Millers over the years. The young, ambitious, talented, bold riders who are determined to ‘make it’ in eventing.

Some do make it, usually by tempering their ego with a good dose of reality about riding and horses.

Others don’t, with the saddest cases of all ending up in an urn. When that happens, there’s always a chorus of people who say they’d tried to take that person aside and offer some help or advice and others who’d wished they did and others who can only shake their heads and say ‘we all knew that was coming’.

Stay safe out there, Missy. Maybe take a step back and a deep breath and realize that everything you want is out there, and it will still be out there in five years. There’s no need to rush – and many very good reasons to take it slowly.