Nothing New
By far not the first time MM has done this. She had a horse called Dene Court that got the $%^&# ran off it. If anyone can pull it up off Usea dash board (I’m not a current membet) it would prove another example.
Missy has been around quite awhile and she has trained with good horse people. She should know better but she apparently doesn’t care. You can say all you want about BNR’s who chase the money but they don’t treat horses like she has and make a living much longer. (MLM - of course… but we don’t have to go there again)
I’m sitting here slackjawed at those competition schedules. 19 HT in 9.5 months is 2 per month at Prelim or higher. How does the poor horse have time to LEARN let alone recuperate on this schedule?
The $$$$ is another factor entirely. Does she not have a farm and just ships from HT to HT to use those facilities as a base of operations?
I just … I don’t understand at all. How is this training? How does the RIDER recover enough to make good decisions to keep them both in one piece? Just … how?
[QUOTE=Synthesis;8948716]
I’m sitting here slackjawed at those competition schedules. 19 HT in 9.5 months is 2 per month at Prelim or higher. How does the poor horse have time to LEARN let alone recuperate on this schedule? [/QUOTE]
I’m in an area with a lot of gamers and I used to work at an equine vet clinic. We had a few clients who would go to a show almost every weekend and compete in multiple events (barrels, poles, speed dash, etc). Some horses were able to handle it. Others weren’t. They were either lucky to have owners who rehabbed them back to soundness or unlucky enough to be “disappeared”.
#notallgamers and the ones who ran the horses into the ground and threw them away are definitely in the minority. But I don’t like to see that mentality starting to seep into eventing. Rocketing horses up the levels in a season has a very high probability of not ending well.
Looking through the EN writeup and results of the Ocala Jockey Club CCI*/**, I’m somewhat disturbed at the ages of the winners.
CCI**: 1st, Cooley Dream, 8 y/o ISH
2nd, Cool as Ice, 8 y/o Hanoverian
3rd, Santos, 7 y/o TB
CCI*: 1st, DeNiro, 8 y/o KWPN
2nd, Fernhill Divergent, 6 (!) y/o KWPN
3rd, Sportsfield Two Doors Down, 7 y/o ISH
And we wonder why we’re seeing a higher number of horses breaking down before they hit 10… :mad: :sigh:
[QUOTE=FrittSkritt;8951669]
Looking through the EN writeup and results of the Ocala Jockey Club CCI*/**, I’m somewhat disturbed at the ages of the winners.
CCI**: 1st, Cooley Dream, 8 y/o ISH
2nd, Cool as Ice, 8 y/o Hanoverian
3rd, Santos, 7 y/o TB
CCI*: 1st, DeNiro, 8 y/o KWPN
2nd, Fernhill Divergent, 6 (!) y/o KWPN
3rd, Sportsfield Two Doors Down, 7 y/o ISH
And we wonder why we’re seeing a higher number of horses breaking down before they hit 10… :mad: :sigh:[/QUOTE]
Do you have a statistic showing there are a higher number of horses breaking down before they hit 10?
The world young horse championships at Le Lion in France are CCI* for 6 year olds and CCI** for 7 year olds. Many 4* competitors and winners have come through from there.
What disappointed me was seeing a 6 year old finish in the CCI**. [ETA: this is incorrect. My apologies.] I do think that’s too much.
It was in the one star according to that list.
[QUOTE=Highflyer;8951727]
It was in the one star according to that list.[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t referring to the list posted here. I noticed the horse due to the Clayton Fredericks connection.
[QUOTE=eventer2002;8948626]
By far not the first time MM has done this. She had a horse called Dene Court that got the $%^&# ran off it. If anyone can pull it up off Usea dash board (I’m not a current membet) it would prove another example.[/QUOTE]
Huh, I think that’s the first six-page competition record I’ve ever seen, though I’m used to mostly looking at higher-level horses that presumably need a bit more time off, while Dene Court’s record in later years looked very busy but mostly a mix of training and prelim. (Also, notably, not ridden by MM by then.)
[QUOTE=Blugal;8951723]
Do you have a statistic showing there are a higher number of horses breaking down before they hit 10?
The world young horse championships at Le Lion in France are CCI* for 6 year olds and CCI** for 7 year olds. Many 4* competitors and winners have come through from there.
What disappointed me was seeing a 6 year old finish in the CCI**. I do think that’s too much.[/QUOTE]
Horse was in the 1*. She was stabled across from me all week. Very nice mare who did not at all seemed stressed or over faced, and her rider was lovely (and is Canadian). I think she iced her at least 6 times over the weekend as a precaution due to the harder ground and had her out grazing all the time. She very clearly lives the life of luxury!
[QUOTE=FrittSkritt;8951669]
Looking through the EN writeup and results of the Ocala Jockey Club CCI*/**, I’m somewhat disturbed at the ages of the winners.
CCI**: 1st, Cooley Dream, 8 y/o ISH
2nd, Cool as Ice, 8 y/o Hanoverian
3rd, Santos, 7 y/o TB
CCI*: 1st, DeNiro, 8 y/o KWPN
2nd, Fernhill Divergent, 6 (!) y/o KWPN
3rd, Sportsfield Two Doors Down, 7 y/o ISH
And we wonder why we’re seeing a higher number of horses breaking down before they hit 10… :mad: :sigh:[/QUOTE]
Those look like appropriate ages to me, although I’d speculate that if DeNiro is at CCI* at age 8, he’s not destined for an international top-level career.
And what is the evidence of a ‘higher number of horses breaking down before they hit 10’? I’m not aware of this as an actual statistic in eventing.
[QUOTE=CatchMeIfUCan;8951774]
Horse was in the 1*. She was stabled across from me all week. Very nice mare who did not at all seemed stressed or over faced, and her rider was lovely (and is Canadian). I think she iced her at least 6 times over the weekend as a precaution due to the harder ground and had her out grazing all the time. She very clearly lives the life of luxury![/QUOTE]
Wow, I made an enormous mistake. Apologies to all involved.
[QUOTE=JER;8951783]
Those look like appropriate ages to me, although I’d speculate that if DeNiro is at CCI* at age 8, he’s not destined for an international top-level career.
And what is the evidence of a ‘higher number of horses breaking down before they hit 10’? I’m not aware of this as an actual statistic in eventing.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, should have said 15. Someone on another thread said that the average age of “retirement” (forced or otherwise) for ULHs has dropped in recent years, I’ll see if I can find it.
I’m going to disagree on the appropriate age thing, though. Just because there’s a * and ** for 6 and 7 years olds doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to be running horses that aren’t physically mature enough to be pounding around a CCI on hard footing at the end of a long season… especially warmbloods.
[QUOTE=FrittSkritt;8951669]
Looking through the EN writeup and results of the Ocala Jockey Club CCI*/**, I’m somewhat disturbed at the ages of the winners.
CCI**: 1st, Cooley Dream, 8 y/o ISH
2nd, Cool as Ice, 8 y/o Hanoverian
3rd, Santos, 7 y/o TB
CCI*: 1st, DeNiro, 8 y/o KWPN
2nd, Fernhill Divergent, 6 (!) y/o KWPN
3rd, Sportsfield Two Doors Down, 7 y/o ISH
And we wonder why we’re seeing a higher number of horses breaking down before they hit 10… :mad: :sigh:[/QUOTE]
In looking at the horse Fernhill Divergent, he was run 8 times in 2015, 12 times (now thirteen) in 2016. I had not heard of Julie Richards, but now see she was a 2004 Bronze Medal winner so she has been around.
The only way one could ever tell if such a ramp up is hard on horses would be to study their history and time in the sport. Julie, like so many of the other PROs may be seeing the money to be made in get em young, move them up fast so they can get top dollar on the sale. At least in the case of Divergent, roughly once a month seems to get some down time for rest and reset the brain. Let’s hope that competition number does not keep going up.
[QUOTE=JP60;8951917]
The only way one could ever tell if such a ramp up is hard on horses would be to study their history and time in the sport. Julie, like so many of the other PROs may be seeing the money to be made in get em young, move them up fast so they can get top dollar on the sale. At least in the case of Divergent, roughly once a month seems to get some down time for rest and reset the brain. Let’s hope that competition number does not keep going up.[/QUOTE]
I can’t speak for “so many of the other PROs” but I doubt this is Julie’s intention. My impression is that she puts the welfare of the horse first. Most PROs are hoping that their young horses will win a 4* someday. 
[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8948338]
I am disgusted. I am also curious how anyone can afford that…I would assume it must be owners paying the bills? Otherwise eventer pros are making wayyyy more than they act like they are…because that is a huge chunk of change to run two event horses. What do the owners think?[/QUOTE]
You are assuming that there are owners paying the bills. In many cases, you have wealthy riders who can afford to buy new horses and pay as many entry fees as they wish. Not all wealthy riders do this. Of course. But I often think that good horsemanship is not diminished by one having to be accountable ( answer to owners). It’s an expensive sport that continues to have quite a few competitors who have no need to balance their check books. I am all for supporting the struggling up and coming talents. MM and ML are not struggling. It’s been given to them.
[QUOTE=JP60;8951917]
At least in the case of Divergent, roughly once a month seems to get some down time for rest and reset the brain. Let’s hope that competition number does not keep going up.[/QUOTE]
Once a month horse trial seems entirely reasonable to me. That was pretty much our schedule this summer, just a much shorter season. It left recovery time and room for some improvement per event on a 4-5 day/week schedule. It was probably harder on me than my horse. This was at BN prepping for a move up to N on a horse new to the level though I’ve done both previously.
Its the weekly/biweekly schedule that I see problems with in terms of tissue recovery and training time. Certainly there’s a need for tissue recovery when considering the increased distance, speed and landing forces. There’s really time for recovery and maintaining training/very limited progress or little recovery visible progress. If the approach is alternating one competition as a ‘XC schooling’ and the next is ‘competitive’ I could see sense to it. It seems like a very expensive way to XC school though.
Once a month yes, but with down time… how many horses show all year round? Many do.
I do once a month, starting May ending in late Sept or early Oct.
The higher you go, the more time in between IMO.
[QUOTE=LadyB;8953387]
Once a month yes, but with down time… how many horses show all year round? Many do.
I do once a month, starting May ending in late Sept or early Oct.
The higher you go, the more time in between IMO.[/QUOTE]
That’s how I’ve always thought. I’ve also never had the time, climate or funds for year-round full on training so its a different training cycle
Exactly. I also can not afford to do it year round, but when is there down time?
Winter is our down time, aka, he gets about 2 months off, brought back into work, but doesn’t get more intense until it’s closer to spring.
