Farrier A, Farrier B, or neither?

Awwww! He set a high bar against which everyone else has to live up to :lol:

And yes, both of you, until you’ve seen that, it’s just hard to imagine. I mean, you’re not lowering toe height - you’re removing horizontal length. You’re not adding heel height, I mean, they’re crushed, can’t unfold them. But you ARE removing horizontal toe length which is forcing the front of the foot “up”, which lowers the angle. Take that leverage off, and suddenly the foot stands up. So cool.

And IME, the farriers/trimmers who say they can’t fix this without making the horse sore, are thinking they have to remove vertical toe height, and nooooo, that is rarely the case (or not the only thing)

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I’ve been dying to see this with my guy but clearly haven’t found the right person to make it happen. :frowning: I was excited yesterday because two different people independently recommended the same farrier, but I went to one barn to check out his work and wasn’t impressed. The easy horses looked fine but the LTLH one (whose feet I happen to be familiar with) was super short-shod and the heels looked horrible, maybe even worse than my horse. The farrier has only done that horse twice but I can’t see any improvements happening with the way it’s set up. Very disappointing. I do have a call into someone else so we’ll see.

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Good luck, @Libby2563! And good on you for doing the (often exhausting, frustrating, miserable) work of finding the right HCP for your horse. If you’d like to share your location I can see if there is anyone I am aware of who might be able to help - PM if you don’t want to post publicly!

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Thanks a bunch, @kashmere . PMed you!

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I do not know nearly as much as several people on this thread, but it is amazing what an education you get when your own horse has an issue that needs solving. :yes:

For irrational reasons I’m compelled to throw out this one thought, after first putting up a steel umbrella in case of brickbats being thrown. :winkgrin:

OP, if you do go barefoot with one or more feet, and if you feel reasonably comfortable that you know what the hoof shape should be, get a rasp and maintain the shape yourself, while the horse is barefoot. The idea is to keep the foot shaped on a continuous basis, rather than waiting X many weeks between farrier visits. Instead of this endless farrier cycle of the foot growing out and losing shape, and then the farrier comes and brings it in again, fighting the same re-direction over and over, you can make little ongoing corrections on a frequent basis to keep the foot shaped and maintain the direction of growth. That will also help keep the white line where it belongs.

IMO anyone who can file and shape their own fingernails can do some ongoing rasp maintenance of a hoof [dodges flying brickbat thrown by farrier]. At some point you’ll want the farrier to come again, but hopefully the farrier will then be getting something good to work with.

My horse was always growing out the white line along with his toes, making it harder to shape the toes, just as has been described above. While he was barefoot I was determined to keep it all together with a rasp.

I wish I could send you the farrier who saved my horse’s feet. The feet were bad enough on softness and shape, and so hard to manage for progress, that there was even some question if they might be jeopardizing the horse’s useful life. Classic case of a foot that had difficulty holding a nail, and even more difficulty holding the next set of nails after the next shoeing. And had to have shoes to defend the shape. This farrier was an original out-of-the-box thinker and was vastly experienced with, shall we say, unorthodox techniques. He brought those feet back from disaster, even though it took quite a while for nutrition and health improvements to catch it all up to consistency.

Not sure your horse needs this link https://formahoof.com/ (his feet don’t look like an emergency to me), but I wish it had been available when my horse could have used it. It’s more for horses that are missing large hoof chunks, severe founder, and/or have other dastardly problems, and this may be the last chance. But for those who can afford it, used properly, this product will put a foot on a horse. And horses can perform, even race, while wearing it. Just for the interest.

I’ve been meaning to update this thread. By the end of the second cycle with Farrier B it was extremely obvious that it wasn’t working for this horse. Here are photos of him 5 weeks after being shod by Farrier B. I only got pics of the right front and right hind, oops, but you get the picture (not a pretty picture)… Ugh.

My 24-year-old WB was also super uncomfortable near the end of this cycle even though his toes weren’t nearly as long and he has good healthy heels. :frowning:

RH lat before.JPG

RF lat before.JPG

YIKES! Jingles you can find the right person.

Susan

My goodness. Do you have another option for a farrier to try asap ??

Oh sweet geezus - get thee another farrier YESTERDAY!!!

oh my! I hope you can line up someone that can actually get him on the right track quickly. It looks like things are falling apart.

Oh my goodness. I hope you find someone else soon!!

Whoops I don’t know what happened but I guess I hit post prematurely as that was only half the update I intended! Those pics are from a month ago and he has since been fixed up somewhat thank goodness. I ended up going back to Farrier A for now because I struck out elsewhere and didn’t want him to spend any more time with those feet than he already had. He’s barefoot behind and the angles are not perfect but headed in the right direction. The WB is happy now too, although he was the most uncomfortable he’s ever been for shoeing. :frowning: I’m still kind of shocked at how quickly things went bad, especially with a well-reputed CJF. The friend who recommended him to me is still using him and I don’t know whether to mention what happened or mind my own business…

Oh my… :eek:

Oh just to clarify, the pics I just posted are 5 weeks after the shoeing job pictured in post #4. I thought people might be interested (and maybe a little horrified?) to see the progression.

Same thing happened to me. At the time, trainer switched farriers from a well-known CJF to a different CJF who came highly recommended by the well-known farrier (who had gotten too busy for us). New farrier left me with feet that looked almost identical to your guy’s and a seriously lame and body sore horse. AFAIK, trainer still uses that farrier. Absolutely insane to me. Is it a knowledge gap and/or unwillingness to ask for help on the part of the farrier? I didn’t stick around long enough to ask. :confused:

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I have known at least one farrier who gave very different efforts to different horses/owners. The owners of the higher level horses loved him, he did an excellent job with their horses. The rest – I dunno what he was thinking, or why – slipper toes and no heels. One horse needed wedges to help get his feet back into shape (by a different farrier). His charges were at the same rate for everyone.

Don’t know if that is the case with Farrier B … it might be interesting to see your friend’s horse’s feet.

Wow, that is really shitty! It’s one thing to think you’re doing things correctly but be wrong, and another to give clients different levels of service. I wonder if he was conscious of it at all, or just lazy, or what? I can’t imagine giving less than my best effort to all clients.

I did look at her horses’ feet before I started using the farrier and they looked fine to me when freshly done, but he did mention on his second visit to me that he shoes dressage horses (like hers) differently than eventers/jumpers (like mine, although I do dressage too). Also one of hers is barefoot and another he was just doing for the first time when I saw him. I’d be curious to see them again after a few months. It’s also possible that I misjudged things because I sometimes find hooves easier to evaluate in photos than in person, unless they’re extremely bad—something for me to work on!

She did ask me a couple months ago if I was pleased with his work so maybe she’ll ask again and I can be tactfully honest. I’d hate to see her horses suffer.

It’s possible that different disciplines need slightly different shoeing setups, so that on its own isn’t out of the realm of possibility. There’s just a (potentially big) difference between how Dressage horses are asked to carry themselves, vs Hunters/Jumpers/Eventers, depending on the level of performance. But it sounds like he’s using that as an excuse

Also one of hers is barefoot and another he was just doing for the first time when I saw him. I’d be curious to see them again after a few months. It’s also possible that I misjudged things because I sometimes find hooves easier to evaluate in photos than in person, unless they’re extremely bad—something for me to work on!

Unless you’re getting on the ground and looking from that view - same as taking pictures - it can be easy to miss things that are/are starting to go badly. Bare feet have a much better chance at overcoming some shortfalls in trimming if they’re getting enough movement on abrasive enough footing.

Some farriers are only good at managing feet that are already well-balanced, have good quality material, but even them, it’s not hard for those feet to slowly, very slowly, devolve over several years, until “suddenly” the horse is lame. But give them feet that are weaker quality (genetics, diet, movement, whatever), or that are already not trimmed well, and they can’t fix things, and their lack of education (or care) allows things to get worse over time, just more quickly since the feet were compromised to begin with.

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:no: oh my…:cry: so sorry about this.

eta: I see that you said these are 5 weeks out… they should not look like this after 5 weeks… Heels are totally collapsed with shoes set to the toe that are way too long. Jingles that you can find someone better.

Yep I know. Horse has always been on a 5-week cycle and has never looked like this at the end before. Amazing what two cycles of subpar farrier work can do. :frowning: I’m so sorry that I put the poor guy through this.