I think you are not getting it… You don’t care, you try to destroy somebody 
And I am not really sure why this is so satisfying…Csaper cares for somebody…
This thread is really starting to become eye opening Csaper is very brave to stand up for somebody…
I imagine a private barn could ban whomever they like from their property. The USDF / USEF presumably has some formal disclipine system and NP would have to have violated some rule and have someone lodge a formal complaint. I’m not familiar with the US rules but doubt that has happened here.
If NP were considered a credible, influential person the judges in question might have some kind of civil case against him for the libellous accusations of corruption. However since everyone knows NP is clueless and nobody believes the garbage he posts, it might be tough to prove his whining actually damaged the judges’ reputations.
The USEF certainly can ban someone for rules infractions. Is badmouthing the judges against the rules?
A property owner can also ban someone.
Guys, csaper58 has done one thing really really well … she’s completely high jack this thread by using a very tried and tested trolling technique of “prove it, I won’t read the proof” . Can we get back to the heart of the matter and just ignore her?
So publicly bashing a pair of judges as being corrupt…is that a real offense or is it just very bad sportsmanship? I mean, we all know a rider or two who comes home from a show going “that judge just hates me/my breed/ my horse/ my saddle pad” . Is this much different? To me, it is because of the accusation is that the judge was swayed not by personal likes/dislikes but by outside forces.
Lately we had a thread about somebody complaining that his scores were too low… later it was discovered that the horse was lame and then it was complained that the judge should have mentioned that the horse was lame. So whatever the judge did it was complained about… Thats ok… But NP is not allowed to complain… And obviously one of the judges was talking about him on FB (before NP complained…) is that ok???
OMG… this is enough to destroy somebody completely??? Obviously he likes his horse and if you ever tried to sell a horse you know what experiences you can have… He was mad and some people express his feelings different then others… I have seen a lot worse on FB…
I realize this is off topic but I want to tell you that for someone posting with so much passion your posts read very calm and well thought out. Good job. You make great points.
Slightly (only slightly) more on topic, I like the advice to ignore the trollish type posts and get back on topic (feel free to laugh at me for posting off topic and suggesting we get back on topic).
Wow thats something I didn’t know up till now. But I agree with Csaper… And it doesn’t matter that it was taken down… what matters is that it was there…
No it is not. Nothing he has done or said (that I’m aware of) should generate this many threads and comments. Writing bad checks, not liking that way a BNT rides, being unwilling to accept homosexality, using profanity, thinking you are more talented than you are, etc. etc. These are not good character traits, but they are not unique to NP. As Csaper and Manni have wondered, what is so special about NP that he gets all this discussion? I do not believe for a minute that people are trying to warn unspecting others of him. Rather, they just enjoy this kind of discussion. A couple people on here show up at all the controversial threads and rarely if ever contribute anything to dressage discussions.
At this point, anyone googling him will bring up his Blog, so there really is no need to link every new entry he makes here. Anyone interested, just do a daily check of his blog.
[edit]
Claiming these judges are corrupt, with no evidence, is certainly problematic for USEF. Is it within their power to ban him?
On the other hand, he can very truly be banned from show grounds. That would depend on individual farms deciding he is not welcome. And it would certainly invite a public crusade against the farms that ban him. So any farm with an idea of his reputation would have to weigh the risks…
IMHO there is a difference between complaining about the judges and saying the judges were corrupted
There’s this
GR702 Violations 1. A violation is any act prejudicial to the best interests of the Federation, including but not limited to the following: a. Violation of the rules of the Federation. b. Disqualification by a Licensed Competition. c. Penalization by an administrative agency, humane society or court of law for violation of Federation rules. d. Acting or inciting or permitting any other to act in a manner contrary to the rules of the Federation, or in a manner deemed improper, unethical, dishonest, unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best interests of the sport and the Federation. e. Any act committed or remark made in connection with the competition considered offensive and/or made with the intent to influence or cast aspersions on the character or integrity of the licensed officials, approaching a judge before or after a decision without first obtaining permission from the show committee or steward/technical delegate, inspecting a judge’s card without the judge’s permission, or public verbal abuse of competition officials.
and
GR914 Refusal of Entries 1. In addition to entries of persons suspended or expelled from the Federation, a Licensed Competition may refuse any entry of an exhibitor or the participation of any agent, trainer, rider, driver or handler who has shown an objectionable attitude or behavior at a Licensed Competition or towards its management, which management is able to substantiate, or previous unsportsmanlike behavior at a Licensed Competition which management is able to substantiate.
I thought about the odd turn this thread has taken and it made me think of my past history with a con man and charlatan. This thread parallels it very closely. First of all, when I cut ties with the charlatan (at that point I didn’t “out” him, I just said I was cutting business ties) I was accused of a host of ulterior motives, primary among them being jealousy.
When I pointed out, calmly and factually, the ways in which the charlatan had failed to live up to our business agreement, his response was “I forgot.” (This is the equivalent of saying someone hacked your internet account.) And his defenders said I was being “mean” and “petty” and “picking on him” for expecting him to hold up his part of the bargain.
A handful of the people he conned continued to vigorously defend him, even as evidence mounted. And that vigorous defense included attacking me and anyone else who cut ties or wasn’t in the fan club. There was also the denial of reality - it’s just your subjective opinion that’s standard business practice, why can’t it be the way the charlatan wants it to be?
Then the distraction wars started. It wasn’t about his con or deceptive practices or cheats, it was about something else. Oh, and then his fan club felt sorry for him for problems in his personal life. And the people who were speaking against him were “kicking him while he was down.”
It was months later when other people started to come forward and tell me their experiences. And years later that some of his staunchest defenders grudgingly admitted that they had also been conned.
[edit]
A difference in scale, perhaps but a difference from the actual rules perspective? Anyone familiar enough with the USEF sportsmanship rules to point us in the right direction?
Sorry for your experiences, but that happens more often then you would think and most of the time it will straighten out over time. A thread like this would probably not have convinced the people in your example because they chose to believe in him. So what’s the use of these threads??
+1
Let’s stay focused on the goal of this thread
Sorry, I posted before I read this. I guess that answers my question right there.
I’d gladly sign or draft some sort of letter in support of the judges and against NP. Just let me know, this has gone too far.
It wouldn’t convince the people already being conned but it will certainly help those who aren’t already holding a glass of kool aid.
I REALLY wish someone had said “yeah, go do a score check on her and maybe contact that Olympian and get a reference” before I hopped in whole hog with a sham trainer. I was a dressage newbie. I didn’t KNOW you could do an online score check and I certainly didn’t know the local Olympian is a sweet heart that answers phone calls from nobodies. I would have listened back then if someone had said “that trainer is fishy”… one year in, nope, I was invested and having smoke blown up my *ss. Three years in, I finally took enough clinics & got enough external knowledge to know it WASN’T me, it was my trainer.
After I left, I heard a lot of “wow, everyone knows she’s a sham, why did you stay with her?” Cause I didn’t find that out until I was already invested. These threads aren’t likely to help the people already involved with Nick but they will certainly warn the newbies about his reputation.
Manni,
Had the internet and this BB existed at the time I had this experience, I would have researched him online and then known to stay far far away. As I stated in an earlier post, a thread like this would have saved me untold personal grief and financial loss.
At the time this happened the person was new to the area and everyone locally was thrilled with him at first.
After his true colors were shown, he moved again, half way across the country.
Before the internet and BBs, moving to a new location effectively gave someone a clean slate. Unless horsepeople in the new area knew someone in the old area to call and ask, there was no transfer of information.
You’re saying that this thread is destroying someone. I say it’s alerting others so they are not harmed.
Another important distinction is that his problem isn’t what people are saying about him, his problem is what he DOES and the clear evidence trail he leaves behind. He is the author of his own troubles. That people are talking about it is beside the point.
If this was just critiquing a struggling amateur, this thread would be hateful and inappropriate, exactly what you, Crockpot and csaper say it is. But that is absolutely not what this thread is about.
If NP or any other rider/trainer with whom you were not familiar showed up in your state and offered to teach a clinic at your barn and spun a very convincing tale, would you agree? Or would you check them out online? Would you invite them to teach the clinic after finding all this information online?
AltersRUs,
That was an awesome post. You made a point that I was struggling to make. Thank you.
And I can totally relate to your story.
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