Has anyone here ever taken lessons from someone whom they felt was a lousy rider? Qualifying that, let’s say you see someone ride, either in person at a show or clinic or on video or photos. Is there ever a time when you would engage that person as an instructor?
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Well I would have to say no. I have met people I wouldn’t ride with, but it has always seemed to me that I have always had instructors who gave me what I needed at the time. I have never had a problem looking for a better instructor and moving on. I was brought up with an incredible music education, and it was part of the process to learn all you could from someone and move on and find a new instructor when you wanted to learn more than they could give you. Its part of the process. But because I had moved on in increments to grow in learning music, it wasn’t a peculiear thing with horses. “looking for a good jumper trainer, dressage trainer, whatever.” You run into someone at a show or watching a friend with her lesson and wanting to learn what they have to teach.
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I’ve had the experience a couple of times. A trainer, fairly well known, was disparaging of her own student’s riding at a show. Not the general criticism of a trainer but a flat out " she can’t ride, I have no idea why she bothers" comment. All honey and sweet talking to the rider but out of rider’s earshot her comments were horrible.
Another trainer who offered help, we talked about a contract, she says “I only take horses in that I can show in order to sell and your horse isn’t going to sell well;” my horse wasn’t for sale.
Ride with either…never.
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What kind of trainers have you ridden with who were really on the ball?
Yes, my experiences are similar. I’ve ridden with people I knew weren’t “the best” but I believed they were better than I was at the time and more specifically, the instruction was adequate to my needs at the time. Crucially, when I began riding there was no internet or FB to check score or see vids or photos, so it was harder to discern an unknown’s talent level unless you saw them firsthand. Thank goodness for the Web for making it easier to choose wisely.
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I have. It was a free spot in a clinic with a semi-famous instructor. She was awful. My horse almost refused to go back into the arena the second day. She’s been the subject of a few COTH threads herself.
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Nick - any conversation needs to be exactly that - a balanced conversation instead of you lecturing us about how you can help us and how stupid/mean/ignorant we are… does that make sense?
Look at the words you have just used. You do seem to want to lecture as opposed to have a conversation.
I will quietly respond to some of what you said…
You say that Dover’s “universe collapsed” because he could not handle “the truth” about HC. No, his universe did not collapse - his life seems to be going on just fine and he is very successful. Rhetoric and statements like that do not serve you well - and get you nowhere. You also urged some of the posters on your political page to go after him… why? What purpose did that serve?
You are the one who has made a big deal out of your repeated bashing of Charlotte DuJardin. No one else typed any of that out for you. Does that mean you were ridiculing yourself? She may not be to your liking - but you have been rather relentless about your trashing… and very public about it. I recently audited a clinic she gave and was impressed with her candor and ability to make everything seem so effortless, easy and … yes, FUN. She laughed at herself… said something she had just done was “complete rubbish” and had a great rapport with the riders from all different levels - Training to Grand Prix.
Your statements about training horses to FEI may be facts in your heart and it is fine to believe in yourself… but simply declaring they were at a high FEI level or performing Airs Above The Ground a la Spanish Riding School does not make it so - and old, blurry photos are not proof of that. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Good photos and videos. Good results. No pretense. Actual horses you have in training. Horses you trained that have done well at Grand Prix. None of that exists and yet you expect everyone to applaud you…
In this thread people have suggested that you pick one of the “good” pictures of Carpathia in a test and explain why you think she is performing a Level 4 or 3 movement and what you think the score should be… did you see Windermere’s posts comparing the photos to another horse? She was very clear about what she felt was required at that level and what the judge would be looking for and scoring for and against…
Your side of that nasty voice mail or answering machine episode was heard - I am far too tired to go back and find that but I am sure someone will at some point… when she declined your services, you told the barn owner that she was abusive and whipped/beat her mare and that you were offering her a deal to be her trainer … or words to that effect. Your words. Right here on COTH. We did hear both “sides”.
You sent me a very nasty FB message about my questions a while ago - it was beyond rude and far from professional. I did not deserve that kind of response for simply asking a question about a side pass or leg yield being performed properly. I am sure it was nothing to you and you forgot it almost immediately and LOLed… but no professional, thoughtful trainer seeking to attract students and book clinics and lessons would treat people like that. I did not screen save it… but even if I had you would say it was all lies and one-sided… when that was not the case.
If all you want to see is a hate campaign everywhere - that says more about you than anyone else. It is simply not the case. Look around COTH - or any horse forum and Facebook group. Trainers and riders and clinicians are discussed at great length all the time - for better and worse. You need to be open to criticism and coaching that you (or any one of us) can benefit from. No pretense. No rhetoric. No conspiracies around every corner.
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Nick, you keep inviting people to ride or clinic with you…but I’m curious. Why should anyone want to ride with you?
I’ll put myself out there as an example. I’m an ammy rider, have been working at dressage for several years, on several different horses. I have two horses currently. One horse is a paint mare, (note: an ‘off’ breed) and one is an Andalusian who is just starting under saddle.
I have owned my paint mare for four years. She’s 21 years old this year. She retired from jumping before I bought her. She is steady and quiet, and I like that about her. I found a great trainer, worked hard, and started showing my mare at training level (as one does).
I showed my mare at training, first, and second, moving up a level each year. Each year, I qualified and showed at championships. I’m a struggling ammy and my mare is aged and not a warmblood. My scores at second level, while not spectacular, were far better than your scores at 3rd. So I am working to move up to 3rd level now. What would make me want to come ride with you?
I wouldn’t want to come ride with you based on your scores. My trainer is our regional grand prix champion and has a median score of 64.5 at the grand prix. What can you offer me that she cannot?
I wouldn’t want to come ride with you based on your attitude. You are confrontational and refuse to take criticism. Anyone who dares question you is automatically labelled a bully and blocked. You cannot admit when you are wrong, even when presented with irrefutable evidence. (The DAD trophy for example. You keep claiming you made the choice to cancel the award. The letter from DAD proves otherwise. You refuse to address this discrepancy, which shows me how unprofessional you are, or how skewed your perception of reality. Either way, why would I want you around my horse?)
I wouldn’t want to ride with you based on your photos. My 2nd level mare is better muscled than your mare, uses herself better, and is more connected and correct than your mare.
I wouldn’t want to ride with you based on your refusal to answer questions in a public forum. No one wants to email you privately to ‘discuss’ with you, because you are abusive when discussing things in a private forum. Screenshots abound to prove it, Nick. Your denials do not carry more weight than the screenshots do.
Give me a specific reason to want to come and ride with you. Don’t just say “I can help you, I get results, every one who works with me gets great results!”. Be specific.
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- Horses in training, students horses or their own personal horses who look well muscled* for the level of work they are doing, shiny* and well cared for… who’s appearance at shows trumps the riders with clean, well fitting tack* and braids if appropriate that don’t stand up like Alfalfa’s hair…
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Nick, Nick, Nick…you claim you’re ready to start the conversation but then warn anyone not to question your claims of having trained multiple horses to GP. That is not a conversation!
Stop telling us how much you can help us. Nobody has asked for your help and I doubt anyone here needs it. However with the depth of knowledge and experience here there are many people who can help you. Why not take advantage of that?
If you are truly interested in setting the record straight, begin by answering the questions we’ e been asking for 20 pages:
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Where are the photos / videos to confirm you have trained horses to GP? And not just to do a few of the movements in the GP test, but to demonstrate the collection, impulsion and self carriage required for GP. The pictures you have shared of Chevy in the past DO NOT show that.
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Share the video of your 46% test on Carpathia and the score sheet. Go through it movement by movement and explain to us what score you think you deserve for each and why.
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Respond to Windemere’s excellent and informative post comparing a good photo of Carpathia with a photo of another horse demonstrating the requirements of Third Level
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Respond to the posters here who have invited you to ride / clinic at their facility
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Stop referring everyone back to your blog posts which contain none of the evidence of your credentials people have been asking for
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Be specific - who did you recently take a lesson from? Who are you taking a clinic with in the fall? In a country filled with talented trainers and coaches, why do you feel few have anything of value to teach you?
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People make choices as to whom they want around their horses and who not. Fixing a horse after it is “broken” by a “trainer” is not where I want to be ever. I care deeply for my horse, and would never put her in a situation where I did not have confidence in the trainer or know that they are a good match for my horse. I have seen too often how things can go terribly wrong.
It is that simple. I ultimately have the burden being responsible. I have to live with my choices. I have made choices in carefully selecting who is training her, where she boards, who is her vet, farrier, etc. I would rather not have her in a training program than have her in the hands of the wrong trainer. My ambitions for results are secondary to the welfare of my horse.
Which brings me to your blog, Nick…not the past nor the Internet. Your blog clearly signals that you are not the right trainer for my horse and, given the responses on this thread, I would say I am not alone. Training and coaching is a trust relationship. Promising results is one thing, convincing me to trust you with my horse to deliver those results is another.
No, we can’t discuss this over email. Aside from the fact that you haven’t given me compelling reasons to travel to your area…your voice is lost in the other competing voices that have credibility.
Have a good day.
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My additions in green, hope you don’t mind Mama!
Like you Dee Vee, my horse is/are the most important factor in where I board, and who I train with. Having worked in some of the top barns in the country in various disciplines, I can’t say I’ve seen it all, but I sure have seen a lot… that inspired me and made my hair stand on end.
It’s brought me to the mantra ‘If horsey ain’t happy, Mama ain’t happy!’ A happy horse whose needs are met is more likely to be a partner who trusts you and has confidence in you… and a horse that will work with you.
The horse is not a tool or a means towards my goals, but a partner I learn from as I learn to train them
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Nick,
We’re all open to hear why you are doing what you are doing. Maybe we can learn something, but before we commit to actually bringing our horses to you, we need some confidence in your theory and abilities. Let’s start with something easy…
Please explain why your hands are so low in this picture:
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Amen sista!!
Let’s just add to this…if the trainer does not have the expertise to know how to tap into the talent of my mare, let’s just say she will give him or her the ride of life time and I am not sure who will come out unscathed or whether it will be worth it. Work with her properly and she will give you her heart and soul. The whiney blog as sole evidence is not convincing that said trainer possesses such talent. I would suggest that most savvy horse owners are probably on the same page.
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Another thing I’d like to know. Nick, you claim to have trained several horses to Grand Prix. We all know Chevy’s story. For the sake of argument, lets just say we agree that you trained Chevy to Grand Prix. Who are the ‘several’ other horses. Where are their photos/videos/show records/owner testimonials?
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This offer to answer questions has been extended before, most recently on the Blue Tongue Alumni thread last Nov on FB. The screenshot list of the q’s and a’s is full of the same old evasions and mistruths, along with accompanying threatening videos, including one addressed to me. And now with public scores, videos and photos definitively outing his lack of credibility, it looks like he continues to double down on his “credentials”.
Not once has he addressed the repeated photograhic and videographic evidence of his ignorance of one of the hallmarks of dressage, the clean correct flying change, which to me has outed him as a fraud like nothing else. No FCs, no FEI. It’s as simple as that. That means no Chevy working GP, no numerous other horses trained to FEI, no Carpathia deserving 60-70% in a 3L test and working 4L and ready for FEI next season, no FEI trainer bragging rights.
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them” was my old tagline, and is abundantly appropriate here.
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I’m just catching up from yesterday so sorry if this has been said:
Nick, you are perfectly welcome to respond to us and clarify the situation on this very thread.
I once took a lesson with a the barn instructor as a political move, even though I knew I had no interest in riding with her long term. I was in between instructors and the barn owner kept “suggesting” I ride with the barn’s instructor. I figured it was worth the $$ to get the barn owner off my back. I could say I gave it the ole college try and then continue to search for a new instructor who better fit my needs.
Now the barn instructor was not a lousy rider … she was actually quite elegant in the saddle. She just didn’t meet my criteria for a long term instructor … her students never really progressed and she had an unhealthy love of gadgets. I gave it two lessons and then said “nope, we aren’t clicking” and never heard another peep from the barn owner about it.
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Agreed. The level of language is higher than NP’s usual style.
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