Feds just raided AC4H

[uphill]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;6967277]
And if it was a legitimate lease amount, there’s nothing wrong with that. I know of several rescue orgs who lease the farms they are on from the President or other Board Members. There’s nothing unusual about that… but then youve been told that before.[/QUOTE]

That is unless the ‘Save the Farm Fundraiser’ actually benefits the farm OWNER rather than the ‘rescue’…then it is ‘income’ to owner…but I am talking about Second Wind AP where that happened. And never any 501©3 paperwork filed…15 yrs she’s been ‘doing it’ operating as a charity and not even with the guise of legality. But I digress.

Back on subject… I have been saying for YEARS that the $350-500 fees they ask for minis is NOT saving them from slaughter.For one thing, the $$s per pound makes no sense I had heard about the greys and what SLH wants skin on bone?

Does anyone think that KB who signed off on the paperwork ( link provided in posts above) should be prosecuted for lying…how can he say horses haven’t had drugs for 60 days or not been exposed to communicable diseases…when he owns them for a week! It is the food chain…albeit not US. But we delude ourselves if we truly believe this doesn’t happen with other slaughter bound animals and the meat we eat!

[IdahoRider]

[QUOTE=Meredith Clark;6967311]

Why does AC4H have so many mini horses?[/QUOTE]
Because they look cute and cuddly and it makes people say, “Awwww, poor little thing”. And that makes them donate to “save” it. Anything that tugs at a heartstring.
Sheilah

[IdahoRider]

@uphill;6967360

Does anyone think that KB who signed off on the paperwork ( link provided in posts above) should be prosecuted for lying…how can he say horses haven’t had drugs for 60 days or not been exposed to communicable diseases…when he owns them for a week!

I am too lazy at this point in the evening to go back and read the file again. I didn’t read it too closely the first time. But I think I remember seeing a lot of qualifying language, i.e. “to the best of his knowledge”, “believed to be”, etc.
Sheilah

[ldaziens]

[QUOTE=RainyDayRide;6967340]
There is also the question of permanent improvements made to any property with rescue funds and who profits from those if the property is sold as well as who is benefiting from them in the meantime.[/QUOTE]

Hadn’t thought of that, but interesting point. I don’t know which entity would keep track of that? IRS, I guess?

I have made a few small donations here and there. I am a fan of Frog Pond Draft Horse Rescue, and they are very transparent. They also get criticized for not bailing every draft horse that shows up at an auction aka not taking on more horses than they can properly care for and especially for euthanizing horses. In other words, being responsible and doing the right versus the popular thing. Occasionally, there has been a plea for donations for a specific horse / situation outside of their normal operations; and those donations are tagged and, in a case where money was raised for auction bail, but somebody stepped up to buy the horse; those donations were immediately refunded. They are picky about where their horses go, require checkups, and they will absolutely come reclaim the horses if there is a problem. Basically, they run a tight – but very transparent – ship, IMO.

[Martha_Drum]

Let’s Not Get into a Pissing Contest over Who’s Rescued the Most Horses

I don’t know any of the people or the group involved here, but:

1. The biggest contribution each of us can make to legitimate horse rescues is: take good care of the horses we already own until they die/are euthanized. The legit rescues would LOVE to close down because they were no longer needed. :yes:

2. Just to throw a little positivity into the thread (buzzkill I know), I’ve adopted a horse and a three-legged rabbit from the Massachusetts SPCA’s Nevins Farm, and I think their organization is excellent.

[Jeito]

[QUOTE=sunridge1;6967009]
Everyone is up in arms about this “scammer” who BTW is a middle class nobody just like the rest us. Talk about low hanging fruit. Easy beans for Feds, just like the rest of us. Meanwhile, the REAL scammers are still busy hoarding all their cash in the Cayman’s while the bought and paid for Feds worry themselves with AC4H. You want and need justice, stop picking on the little guys breaking the same laws as the big guys. Sheez… she hasn’t done anything those big corp psychopaths do everyday of their lives.[/QUOTE]

It’s this misconception that people like Christy use to justify what they do: “Everyone cheats, so why shouldn’t I?” Well, the truth is not everyone cheats. Corporations have laws that protect them, and pay lobbyists and lawyers to protect them, but that’s a different story. You are absolutely wrong that the feds go only after the little people. If anything, they like the high profile cases, so they go after the famous guys while letting the sleazy little people cheat other pathetic little people. Rescues like AC4H have been blatantly flouting their illegal activities for years. If these were “sexy” targets - the ones that make front page news - these people would have been in prison years ago.

[Meredith_Clark]

[QUOTE=IdahoRider;6967365]
Because they look cute and cuddly and it makes people say, “Awwww, poor little thing”. And that makes them donate to “save” it. Anything that tugs at a heartstring.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]

I figured as much, but where are they all coming from? Why is there a surplus of mini horses in this area?

I under stand OTTB because there are so many and there are a lot of race tracks, but who is breeding and giving away all these tiny horses??

[Miss_Aria]

The Amish like to breed minis, and they do so in abundance. AC4H also breeds minis, or at least they did. Supposedly the sale of them would send the kids to college. Yeah, right.

Also, ac4h rents a bank barn with attached dry lot; that’s where the actual rescues live, all grouped together in a herd, including Christy’s personal mare [who also gets bred]. What I would like to know is how those people pay their family bills [you know, mortgage, food, clothing, personal effects, things like that] not affiliated with a rescue when no one works for a living. Money has to be coming from somewhere.

[sassysmom]

and remember this is what is reported to the IRS. So you also have to rely on the reporting person being accurate . How many donations dont show on the books?

[Lady_Eboshi]

I’d been wondering where TF all those minis were coming from that go through Camelot; that “breeding program” is just SO wrong. :no:

[caffeinated]

[QUOTE=Hippolyta;6967204]
“expenses” also include whatever salary they choose to pay themselves.[/QUOTE]

Salaries should be reported on the 990.

[caffeinated]

[QUOTE=uphill;6967360]
Does anyone think that KB who signed off on the paperwork ( link provided in posts above) should be prosecuted for lying…how can he say horses haven’t had drugs for 60 days or not been exposed to communicable diseases…when he owns them for a week! [/QUOTE]

There’s a loophole in the paperwork. If you look at the canadian documents that the dealers/shippers sign, it says “in the last 60 days or while I’ve owned the horse” and “to the best of my knowledge”

[MoonoverMississippi]

[QUOTE=caffeinated;6967617]
Salaries should be reported on the 990.[/QUOTE]

Yes, if they are considered “salary”.
There are plenty of ways around that: “reimbursements”- for mileage, for items supposedly purchased with private money for which the nonprofit reimburses them for, etc.
And, as others mentioned, rent. Is the nonprofit “renting” office space in a home? Is it “renting” land, vehicle useage, equipment useage, etc., from a private party?
Or repaying “advertising (including computer usage for posting)”, feed or bedding expenses at a higher rate than the original purchase?

And of course, it would be interesting to see who actually owns the vehicles, etc. they use for personal use; them or the nonprofit? Quite common to see nonprofits buy nice vehicles which end up mostly used for other purposes.

It is quite easy to bury payments to onself in the expense catagory with a little imagination.

[MoonoverMississippi]

double post. Why won’t it delete??

[mbm]

[QUOTE=sassysmom;6967595]
and remember this is what is reported to the IRS. So you also have to rely on the reporting person being accurate . How many donations dont show on the books?[/QUOTE]

anyone who has seen the tools available to auditors (state Fed etc) knows that they are very adept at finding the money.

Looking at the tax returns my guess is that the IRS wants their cut - ie there is no income going to the owner of the org so how can she live?

So my guess is tax fraud. and they dont play nice.

i have a side question: how can they be paying upwards of 50,000 a MONTH to purchase horses? how many horses would that buy?

also look at the feed bills… around 3 k a month. how many horses would that feed?

[mbm]

also, no wonder there are so many rescues = 800k a year is not chump change!

[caffeinated]

Yeah but how many are bringing in that kind of money? And they way ac4h operates, most of that money goes straight out the door again to the brokers.

[danceronice]

Regarding minis, they’re also just popular with people with small lots or who’ve never had horses, have little kids, think a “pony” would be cute, or worse figure they can get a few, breed them because a baby would be cute…and then find out they’re not dogs with hooves. I would guess AC4H has a lot because they basically CAN’T get shipped–they’re not worth gas it costs to haul them. People dump 'em and even the KBs have a limited market for them. But except maybe a few, I would bet the same kind of people would be taking them from AC4H–“Aw, it’s cute, let’s save it…oh crap.”

[mbm]

how many horses would 50k purchase? assume each horse cost 250 that means they are buying 200 horses a month… really? how are they feeding those 200 horses when all they have is one barn and only pay 2k in feed bills?

my guess is that that is where they are getting their money for living expenses and hopefully the IRS is bright enough to figure that out.

[caffeinated]

@mbm;6967816

how many horses would 50k purchase? assume each horse cost 250 that means they are buying 200 horses a month… really? how are they feeding those 200 horses when all they have is one barn and only pay 2k in feed bills?

That’s the thing - if the program works exactly as advertised (I’m making no comment, but let’s assume all the money donated is going where it’s supposed to, etc), this isn’t necessarily so out there. They are getting money donated to them to buy horses who are housed and being fed by the brokers. Once it’s all in, they buy the horses in bulk (let’s assume they’re paying the full price they advertise on their site, so it’s more like around $500-600 on average, and there are 20-30 horses on there per week). They only actually “own” the horses for a day or so while the pickups are getting organized - so there aren’t really any care expenses associated with them.

Actual horses that the rescue actually owns that they actually have to feed number much fewer.

I’m trying to reserve judgement, but I do think there’s a lot of confusion about this program, and just wanted to point out that even if it is above board and there’s no question about where the money is going, you could conceivably see these kinds of expenses.

Now, it would be very easy, when dealing with those kinds of numbers and the unknown price markup and unknown arrangements between parties, for some of this money to end up where it’s not supposed to end up. But that’s for the FBI to figure out. In the meantime, CBI will just have to speculate.