So I guess there aren’t enough unwanted mutts out there? Now we have to attract more mare owners who think it would be fun to breed. Great…
Tim
[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5165770]
So I guess there aren’t enough unwanted mutts out there? Now we have to attract more mare owners who think it would be fun to breed. Great…
Tim[/QUOTE]
Again, the average COTHer has enough class to post intelligent questions rather than rude comments. Maybe you should go on youtube and critique some strangers riding skills next.
I'm going to answer as if you asked a polite and intelligent question: When I posted this, I expected an eventer or hunter TB mare or two. Instead the mares have mostly been lovely warmbloods of impressive pedigree (Hennessey, Consul, Weltmeyer, etc.) and a couple of retired hunters. I'm very excited about the quality of the foals that Embrace has had the chance to make!! Don't underestimate your fellow horse lover, just assuming other people are idiots is a bad way to approach the world.popcorn anyone?:lol:
I think it is great that someone loves her untested stallion so much as to offer free breedings and great that there are takers. Mazoltov!
I also understand the concerns raised - and think there are reasonable concerns.
nuff said. Good luck with him. :yes: I would encourage you to push forward, though, with either an inspection or send him along a show path, in whatever discipline he is suited for.
Let me be clear, I know nothing about your stallion except that he is unapproved by even the most welcoming of studbooks. Untested Yes, but also unapproved. I do not believe any approved mare should breed any unapproved stallion under ANY circumstances. There is a reason for the process, and the rules should be followed. Did you take a chance to see what the colts have to surpass in Hannover on the recent video link? The recently posted video quickly shows how high the bar is for them. Most of them will demonstrate they are not good enough for breeding. Yet you feel your stud should have offspring worth raising. Will you promise to raise all of them when they don’t sell. Will you ensure their survival when the market doesn’t provide for them. NO, you won’t. Furthermore, any descent mare owner who wishes to breed their mare will not be breeding them now. It is almost absurd to think one would try. If you have any hopes of retaining credibility with your stallion I suggest you present him to the studbook of choice first, and then consider the free test breedings during breeding season. Anything less is backyard breeding and will result in more unwanted foals. It dilutes the stallion market of stallions that were already tested and proved adequate. Yet after doing the right thing, and testing their stallions properly, they will spread their book over fewer mares. Less knowledge is gained, and more unwanted, unregisterable foal will be created. Be responsible, and wait until he has been tested. You hurt all warmblood breeders when you allow this, and frankly it is embarrassing. Do you think the GOV would think positively on this. Would it be considered exceptable in Germany. Not a chance. Show a little patience and do the right thing.
Tim
Move over…I’ve got the wine and the shoe to open it with…
[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5166104]
Let me be clear, I know nothing about your stallion except that he is unapproved by even the most welcoming of studbooks. Untested Yes, but also unapproved. I do not believe any approved mare should breed any unapproved stallion under ANY circumstances. There is a reason for the process, and the rules should be followed. Did you take a chance to see what the colts have to surpass in Hannover on the recent video link? The recently posted video quickly shows how high the bar is for them. Most of them will demonstrate they are not good enough for breeding. Yet you feel your stud should have offspring worth raising. Will you promise to raise all of them when they don’t sell. Will you ensure their survival when the market doesn’t provide for them. NO, you won’t. Furthermore, any descent mare owner who wishes to breed their mare will not be breeding them now. It is almost absurd to think one would try. If you have any hopes of retaining credibility with your stallion I suggest you present him to the studbook of choice first, and then consider the free test breedings during breeding season. Anything less is backyard breeding and will result in more unwanted foals. It dilutes the stallion market of stallions that were already tested and proved adequate. Yet after doing the right thing, and testing their stallions properly, they will spread their book over fewer mares. Less knowledge is gained, and more unwanted, unregisterable foal will be created. Be responsible, and wait until he has been tested. You hurt all warmblood breeders when you allow this, and frankly it is embarrassing. Do you think the GOV would think positively on this. Would it be considered exceptable in Germany. Not a chance. Show a little patience and do the right thing.
Tim[/QUOTE]
Wow, this is a bit much, even for you. Please work out whatever issues you have, and stop taking them out on the boards.
He’s only two, and the OP already stated that she wouldn’t offer it if he wasn’t doing some kind of test, and isn’t even close to promoting him seriously. He’s also no simple back yard pony, he passed his inspection and looks nice for a two year old, given the pictures we have. The OP seriously didn’t deserve this kind of attack.
In fact, the more I read over your post, the more disturbed I am, especially considering you have no issue making it known that you are doing nothing but being judgmental and refuse to even look at the horse. Get help, because frankly, you are the embarrassing one.
I am sorry Coppers Mom, did you not read above. He has not been inspected for breeding by anyone. At this point, if you breed your mare to this stallion, the foal can not be registered. My issues are clear and fair. If you own a stallion and have presented them properly, it has cost a lot of money and time. This person is advocating using her unapproved stallion for free…hmmm. I am for protecting the proper stallion owners.
Second, I am for the horses that will be traded from home to home because they are not wanted.
Thirdly, I am for all American breeders have to explain to one more person why their stock is worth more.
Fourth, I am for the American breeder who has to explain to one more rider that why they don’t need to go to Europe to buy their next Warmblood. This doesn’t help.
Fifth and final point, I am against attracting more mares that shouldn’t be bred just because they have a uterus. Breeding a mare in Oct…Realy?
This owner can’t even state the pedigree of her stallion properly. Has she seen the stallion and mare that her stallion is out of? Does she even have enough knowledge about her stallions family to be owning one, and advocating breeding to him?
This is a breeding forum for breeders and those want to know more about breeding. I will be fighting for the American breeder’s, this doesn’t help. She should wait until her stallion has PRELIMINARY BREEDING RIGHTS, then offer up the free breedings DURING BREEDING SEASON. Otherwise she might as well stick her stallion out with a bunch of open mares and let him at it. Its just as bad. Breeding is more then inseminating mares.
Tim
Leaving the discussion about whether it’s a good idea to breed this stallion or not…
Even in FL (the OP’s location), why on earth would ANYONE purposely breed such late foals?
RyTimMick,
Please at least follow one link and do some research before you attempt to tell me what an idiot I am. I own the mare, bred her and raised the colt. His dam is royally bred and produced foals (while in Germany) that competed internationally at the equivalent of Grand Prix (Jumpers). Her full sister was also an internationally competitive jumper, and her Dam was as well. Her sire isZEUS. Her Dam sire is GOLDSTERN. "Enough said."
Concern over the foals registration options is valid, no one wants to see cheap, high quality horses hit the market! LOL Once Embrace is old enough and has been presented as a stallion.... his foals can also be inspected, no matter how old they are (assuming he is receives his temp breeding license). If for any reason he is not presented, his daughters can still be presented as mares, and entered into the the second mare book, later their daughters will be eligible for the main mare book. His colts could be presented and receive a certificate of pedigree, which is all they would need as geldings.
:)
I want to Thank the COTHers who have been so nice… I truly hope that one day Embrace will resurface as a mature stallion with a fantastic record and you will remember that you saw him as a youngster and recognized his potential! I’m just a “back yard breeder” that got very lucky and found a phenomenal mare, and again got lucky when she produced this flashy, talented colt. Then luck came my way again when he was invited to participate in this unique, ground breaking program. I’m happy to have passed that luck along to some happy mare owners! Improving what you have with luck and determination is what AMERICA is about. So yes, I’m DAMN PROUD of my AMERICAN bred colt! :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=M. O’Connor;5166385]
Even in FL (the OP’s location), why on earth would ANYONE purposely breed such late foals?[/QUOTE]
The only reason he is being collected at all is this program he is in. Since he’s being collected on a regular basis (first for training, then for testing, then for clean outs before freezing) I offered to let people use the semen for free. This just happened to be when the program was running. Its up to the mare owner to decide if its a bad time to breed. It won’t matter for inspecting, these foals will likely be yearlings when Embrace is presented… so really, its up to the weather and if the foal might be shown in-hand. I love fall foals, personally. The weather here is mild and mostly dry until January/Febuary. 
I saw this QUOTE on your link posted to Facebook and I was wondering why Korea would want to start a breeding program on an untested and unproven 2 yo stallion, regardless of pedigree. There are very proven stallions with offspring- licensed - approved - with performance records at upper level -stallions all over the world that would make more sense for this endeavor. I am trying to understand this program you are involved with. Is there a link to information? And of course you are “excited” but I have questions because it does not make sense to me. What other stallions are being utilized in this program? Not asking about your horse or free breeding issues that have been discussed already. Just what is this kind of program? Thanks.
EmBrace Facebook QUOTE:
Then his semen is going to be shipped to Asia where it will be used in the foundation stock of a new Sport Horse breeding program aimed toward bringing Korea to the Olympics on their own horses! What an exciting thing for my young horse to be a part of!
I’m going to go ahead and guess that it’s because Korea isn’t exactly a factory for good horses. They don’t really know what they’re doing yet, compared to other countries.
Also, I think someone else on this thread was contacted, and I’m sure who would actually be willing to do it was also a hurdle for the program.
Well, from what I understand… the stallion station owner has made a deal to provide frozen semen for a sport horse breeding program. Apparently, America has never shipped any frozen semen of any type to them before so this has been a ground breaking arrangement. Those involved have been purchasing their competitive horses in the past, and have decided to begin a breeding program of their own. They are establishing a relationship with one of our local Stallion Stations with the goal of having high quality frozen semen shipped to them for this program. Its obviously going to take many years to actually produce horses that they will be competing on… but every breeding program has to start somewhere. They accepted my colt based on his pedigree, and will test some mares with his frozen semen. If it goes well, they may choose to have more sent. That is all I really know, I was more than willing to let him participate because he is receiving training and testing that he otherwise would not and I’ll have some frozen semen set aside for the future.
I hope you understand that I am not providing names because this is still in progress and others plan to write articles and "release" the story. I'm sure someone would be irritated if I gave to much info. before that happens. What I have said above has already been said other places. I'll post links when it is finally published.... it shouldn't be very long.
I'm going to guess that this information is to vague, and because I have respected the privacy and personal interests of others I have left myself open to more negative comments. Well, go ahead. Everyone is waiting.Also, I think someone else on this thread was contacted, and I’m sure who would actually be willing to do it was also a hurdle for the program.
I think the “who would be willing to do it” probably was, in fact, a significant hurdle. I was contacted, and among other things, didn’t want to send my stallion away for four or six weeks or whatever the test period was (fairly lengthy if I remember correctly.) He would be out of training, away from my care, and off my farm for the entire time – and although I was flattered, ultimately I decided to pass. I know someone else who was also contacted, and also passed for similar reasons. For someone in SunFire’s position, I can see it being a great opportunity and I don’t blame her for taking advantage of it (free stallion training, free semen evaluation, opportunity to do test breedings for free, a bank of frozen for herself, etc.), but I think it’s a bigger decision to hand over a proven, approved, competing/training stallion for something like this, so I’m sure this impacted “who would be willing to do it”.
What I also didn’t understand, was why Korea wanted to reinvent the wheel and use random* American stallions to do it – it seems like their “Korean horses” won’t be any more Korean if the semen comes from random American stallions, than if the semen came from proven Euro Warmblood stallions.
Last I heard, the program was hoping to include six horses, and the two confirmed were a Paint and a draft (Clydesdale I think?), and they were trying to find a few Warmbloods.
- When I say “random” I don’t mean anything negative towards SunFire – just wanted to clarify since some are using this as a jump-on-SunFire thread. I mean “random” as in – a Paint, a draft, a few Warmbloods, and (if I’d participated) a Friesian Sporthorse – I think that’s a sort of random group?
I don’t need to say anymore about why breeding to an unapproved stallion is wrong. I do have to call out Coppers Mom, and her statement about the Korean’s. What was that about? South Korea rode Cim Christo in the last Olympics quite well, and I am sure they have an idea what a good horse is. This whole stallion thing doesn’t add up, and owner beware. Coppers Mom, a little more diplomacy to our Korean friends would be in order.
Tim
[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5168327]
…and I am sure they have an idea what a good horse is.
Tim[/QUOTE]
…and how to prepare them…for the Olympics.
Embrace approved for breeding by Old Na
update pg. 3, post 55- Hello everyone! Remember this crazy thread? LOL
I am proud to announce that Embrace was presented to the Oldenburg NA for his initial stallion inspection on Friday, and was AMAZING! Embrace scored a total of 225 points, which qualified him for his first *STAR*!!!! He was the second highest scoring stallion (by 2 points) and earned a 92.5 total jumping index (WOW!!) He even received a 9.5 for capability! In their opening statements, the inspectors referred to him as the "Zeus clone"... which is a [U]fantastic[/U] compliment.
He is just a three year old this year, so he will be going to his stallion test to (hopefully) earn his lifetime license when he is a four year old, however... the foals that were conceived last year are eligible to be inspected and registered this year. :winkgrin:[QUOTE=SunFire Farm;5805887]
Hello everyone! Remember this crazy thread? LOL
I am proud to announce that Embrace was presented to the Oldenburg NA for his initial stallion inspection on Friday, and was AMAZING! Embrace scored a total of 225 points, which qualified him for his first *STAR*!!!! He was the second highest scoring stallion (by 2 points) and earned a 92.5 total jumping index (WOW!!) He even received a 9.5 for capability! In their opening statements, the inspectors referred to him as the "Zeus clone"... which is a [U]fantastic[/U] compliment.
He is just a three year old this year, so he will be going to his stallion test to (hopefully) earn his lifetime license when he is a four year old, however... the foals that were conceived last year are eligible to be inspected and registered this year. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Congrats!! Very good news… pics?
Congratulations to you and to the mare owners that took the chance on your boy. It is paying off!
I am glad there was a happy ending. People on this board can get pretty harsh when they don’t agree with something!
Huge congratulations to you and the MO’s who took a chance on Embrace.
Yes we must have photos! 
And now to go get those babies inspected! 
You might want to add to your opening sentence, "update pg. 3, post 55’ so people can easily find the update.
